Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

[JohnD]

This is a poll of democrat primary voters.View attachment 628515

I won’t keep posting here, everyone is quite dug in. But the bill has bipartisan support. There’s a reason for that.

Simple. “Leave my kids alone until they’re older.” It’s not more complicated than that.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Agreed. But Disney caused much of this themselves when they suddenly felt the need to add "Inclusion" to their 60 year old 4 Keys training program. Even though the concepts of the Courtesy Key and just following the Golden Rule should have covered Inclusion. But nope, they had to go woke and add an Inclusion Key, even though they did it sort of half-butt and vague.

That opened a pandora's box for employees to demand more and more political activism from the company.

And again, the Inclusion Key seems vapid and pointless. I mean honestly, the company founder said a very famous speech that is still engraved in bronze at the entrance to their park. How the heck do you get more inclusive than this welcoming opening statement at Disneyland's debut???

"To all who come to this happy place, welcome!"
-Walt Disney, July 17th 1955, Disneyland Grand Opening Ceremony

I’ll be the first to admit that Disney’s way of inclusion is laughable, simply because it isn’t genuine and it’s not being done correctly, not for them trying to be “woke,” but to bring up Disneyland in 1955 for anything regarding inclusion, particularly the way we talk about it now, doesn’t make sense within the context. We weren’t there as a society to talk about inclusion the way we’re talking about it now. Groups of people were still looking for basic rights at that time.

I wouldn’t say Disney was inclusive when Walt Disney was alive.

 

[Californian Elitist]

How many Black people had Disneyland hired back then? How inclusive was that?

Arguing against inclusion is arguing for white supremacy. Simple as that.

Disney was right to make that the fifth key but they need to put it into action instead of just looking for a PR bump.

Inclusion isn’t just related to race and people that come from a historically marginalized racial group. It encompasses various groups of historically marginalized people.

 

[lazyboy97o]

“The problem is a large percent of the population see it as a parental rights bill”

Because that is what it is. Introduced, debated, and passed as such. Gee, I wonder how a large percentage of the population viewed it that way?

What rights does it protect? How were those rights previously not protected? Why do the sponsors think those rights will stop the spread of gayness?

 

[DisneyHead123]

Agreed. But Disney caused much of this themselves when they suddenly felt the need to add "Inclusion" to their 60 year old 4 Keys training program. Even though the concepts of the Courtesy Key and just following the Golden Rule should have covered Inclusion. But nope, they had to go woke and add an Inclusion Key, even though they did it sort of half-butt and vague.

That opened a pandora's box for employees to demand more and more political activism from the company.

And again, the Inclusion Key seems vapid and pointless. I mean honestly, the company founder said a very famous speech that is still engraved in bronze at the entrance to their park. How the heck do you get more inclusive than this welcoming opening statement at Disneyland's debut???

I go back and forth on this. I can see this as political activism, however, I think you could make a case that this is simply a normal, neutral stance in parts of the country. Similar to how, not so long ago, displays of patriotism and national pride were considered just a normal, neutral thing to do. Flashy stars and stripes and airplane flyovers, things like that. Whereas now they are seen as politically charged.

Either way, whether Disney was dipping a toe in activism or simply the new normal for the customer base they were catering too, they should have been prepared to stay the course, and to go beyond the superficial. It seems to me that Iger started the company down one path and Chapek has not been eager to follow suit, leading to this mismatch of images. Now Chapek is pretty much screwed because he’s going to anger half his customer base no matter what he does (Although I will say that this might not be entirely new - when I was young conservatives really side eyed Disney hard, people on the far Right were always accusing them of having scandalous subliminal messages in their movies and such. Harry Potter was similarly under scrutiny because of the witches. It’s only been in the past decade, as Republicans have taken a more libertarian turn, that these came to be seen as Good Wholesome Traditional Family Fun.)

 

[TP2000]

How many Black people had Disneyland hired back then?

Only a few Black CM's can be seen in Disneyland photos from the 1950's and 60's.

How inclusive was that?

About as inclusive as one could expect to be, given the demographics of the 1.2 to 1.8 Million people living in Orange County during those decades. The 1960 US Census shows that less than 0.3% of OC's residents were Black. By the 1980 Census, the OC population had grown to 2 Million people, and 1.2% of them were Black.

The 2020 Census for OC has a population of 3.2 Million, and only 2.1% of those OC residents are Black. Latinos make up 33% of OC, Asians make up 21%. Black is one of the smallest slices of OC's racial demographic pie, just above American Indian/Alaskan Eskimo.

For the record, in 1960 the population of LA County was just over 6 Million, and 8.2% were Black. But the Black neighborhoods of LA County in 1960 were about a 25+ mile drive from Disneyland, so it wasn't common for those Black folks to apply to work at Disneyland that far away.

But Disneyland was never racially segregated, even though it legally could have been in 1955 I suppose.

By 1962, Walt Disney was purposely putting paid Black actresses into the crowd for his nationally televised Wonderful World of Color program, to send a clear signal about Disneyland's values. That was something not all amusement parks in America could claim, but Walt made a point of doing it with paid actresses (again, because OC's Black population was tiny and you simply had to place paid actors into the crowd to get that point across).

This video is keyed to start just 4 seconds before the paid Black actresses are shown enjoying the fireworks. A very clear statement on inclusion for 1962.

Arguing against inclusion is arguing for white supremacy. Simple as that.

I can't imagine anyone arguing against inclusion in a theme park. That would be like trying to bring back Segregation. It's just not going to happen. And besides, Disneyland was never segregated to begin with. Walt made that very clear in his opening day speech.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/orangecountycalifornia

 

[TP2000]

I’ll be the first to admit that Disney’s way of inclusion is laughable, simply because it isn’t genuine and it’s not being done correctly, not for them trying to be “woke,” but to bring up Disneyland in 1955 for anything regarding inclusion, particularly the way we talk about it now, doesn’t make sense within the context. We weren’t there as a society to talk about inclusion the way we’re talking about it now. Groups of people were still looking for basic rights at that time.

Oh, gosh, tell me about it. I was there in the 20th century. If I had walked into Disneyland in the 1950's or 60's holding my boyfriend's hand, I would have been hustled out a side gate immediately and forbidden entry. Even by the 1980's, Disneyland Security guards were actively prohibiting men from dancing with other men at Tomorrowland Terrace and Videopolis. Only male-female couples were allowed to dance at Disneyland for at least the first 30 years.

But, that was something gay folks just had to deal with back in the 1950's through 1980's all over society, not just Disneyland or certain theme parks. It was part of society's norms. Things change. Life gets better. The great American experiment continues to learn and evolve and form "a more perfect union" as our Founding Father's said.

I wouldn’t say Disney was inclusive when Walt Disney was alive.

Not using the 2022 definition of inclusive, no. But I can't think of anything that was 2022's "inclusive" in 1955. Not the federal government, not state government, certainly not churches or organized religion, not airlines or car companies or supermarkets, not TV sitcoms or movies, pop songs, nothing really.

But for 1955, Disneyland was pretty darn inclusive for the social standards of the day. And again, you can use his opening day speech as a beautiful statement of inclusion in 2022. Walt was brilliant!

"To all who come to this happy place, welcome!" -Walt Disney, July 17th 1955

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Oh, gosh, tell me about it. I was there in the 20th century. If I had walked into Disneyland in the 1950's or 60's holding my boyfriend's hand, I would have been hustled out a side gate immediately and forbidden entry. Even by the 1980's, Disneyland Security guards were actively prohibiting men from dancing with other men at Tomorrowland Terrace and Videopolis. Only male-female couples were allowed to dance at Disneyland for at least the first 30 years.

But, that was something gay folks just had to deal with back in the 1950's through 1980's all over society, not just Disneyland or certain theme parks. It was part of society's norms. Things change. Life gets better. The great American experiment continues to learn and evolve and form "a more perfect union" as our Founding Father's said.



Not using the 2022 definition of inclusive, no. But I can't think of anything that was 2022's "inclusive" in 1955. Not the federal government, not state government, certainly not churches or organized religion, not airlines or car companies or supermarkets, not TV sitcoms or movies, pop songs, nothing really.

But for 1955, Disneyland was pretty darn inclusive for the social standards of the day. And again, you can use his opening day speech as a beautiful statement of inclusion in 2022. Walt was brilliant!

"To all who come to this happy place, welcome!" -Walt Disney, July 17th 1955

When I was in college in the early 90s I was the assistant manager at a restaurant and we hosted the LGB (no other letters back then) club every Monday night.

The reason I remember the night so specifically is because it was intentionally on Mondays because that’s when the LDS church has family home evenings, a night set aside for families to play games and be together, and many of the club were disowned by their families. The club met that night so no one would be alone.

Weird how that feels like eons ago but also feels like yesterday.

 

[TP2000]

When I was in college in the early 90s I was the assistant manager at a restaurant and we hosted the LGB (no other letters back then) club every Monday night.

The reason I remember the night so specifically is because it was intentionally on Mondays because that’s when the LDS church has family home evenings, a night set aside for families to play games and be together, and many of the club were disowned by their families. The club met that night so no one would be alone.

Weird how that feels like eons ago but also feels like yesterday.

Isn't it fascinating how things change? Particularly religion. After the LDS church in Utah donated mightily to help pass Prop 8 here in California (a state bill banning gay marriage in California that passed easily in 2008), just 14 short years later the LDS church is now trying to work around welcoming Gays and Lesbians into their church somehow.

Many decades ago, I was asked politely yet firmly by church leadership to no longer attend my mainline Protestant church in downtown Seattle when some of the nosy church ladies made it clear to anybody that would listen that I had been hanging out in gay bars and discotheques, not to mention the fact I was a (ahem) rather dashing young man who was not married yet and had no girlfriend. So, you know.

Fast forward to 2022, and I see that same church in downtown Seattle has plastered all over their website how much they love the gays now. Funny what can suddenly change to keep the collection plates full, isn't it?

I am thrilled that people attend church. I think church, especially our shared Judeo-Christian values, has an important part in American society, and is doubly important if you are raising young children to be good people. But after the pointed request that I no longer attend my family's church because of my "lifestyle", I never looked back. I still talk to God all the time, still celebrate all the big Christian holidays, still love the Lord, but I don't attend or donate to a church. Their loss!

 

[Californian Elitist]

And again, you can use his opening day speech as a beautiful statement of inclusion in 2022. Walt was brilliant!

"To all who come to this happy place, welcome!" -Walt Disney, July 17th 1955

Inclusion is more than just saying “all are welcome here.” That’s not enough.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Inclusion is more than just saying “all are welcome here.” That’s not enough.

I agree but Disney goes far beyond that already, they don’t just openly welcome everyone, they openly employ everyone, go out of there way to make the parks accessible to everyone... One of the biggest reasons I’m a Disney parks fan is from watching how the CMs interact with autistic kids, deaf kids, blind kids, kids in wheelchairs… and everyone else including the gay community. I’ve never seen another company that tries so hard to accommodate everyone. They aren’t perfect but they already go far beyond just saying it.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I agree but Disney goes far beyond that already, they don’t just openly welcome everyone, they openly employ everyone, go out of there way to make the parks accessible to everyone... One of the biggest reasons I’m a Disney parks fan is from watching how the CMs interact with autistic kids, deaf kids, blind kids, kids in wheelchairs… and everyone else including the gay community. I’ve never seen another company that tries so hard to accommodate everyone. They aren’t perfect but they already go far beyond just saying it.

And yet employees, particularly LGBTQ+ employees, were basically told that they didn’t matter enough by the company’s CEO.

I definitely wouldn’t say that they go far beyond, especially within the actual company and as an employee. I’ve never worked for Ben & Jerry’s, but they seem way more genuine regarding this than Disney and way more about the cause. Disney panders too much. I do agree with you that there’s room for improvement.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

And yet employees, particularly LGBTQ+ employees, were basically told that they didn’t matter enough by the company’s CEO.

I definitely wouldn’t say that they go far beyond, especially within the actual company and as an employee. I’ve never worked for Ben & Jerry’s, but they seem way more genuine regarding this than Disney and way more about the cause. Disney panders too much. I do agree with you that there’s room for improvement.

Are you really going to let one of Bob Chapek’s blunders override 20 years of Disney openly supporting the LGBT community?

Disneys in trouble if one screwup by Chapek is all it takes to undo decades of support.

Just reinforces my belief they never should have got involved in the first place, by not doing it fast enough they lost some on the left, by then doing it they lost some on the right, a no win situation.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Are you really going to let one of Bob Chapek’s blunders override 20 years of Disney openly supporting the LGBT community?

Disneys in trouble if one screwup by Chapek is all it takes to undo decades of support.

Just reinforces my belief they never should have got involved in the first place, by not doing it fast enough they lost some on the left, by then doing it they lost some on the right, a no win situation.

Given the amount of pandering they do, on top of that statement…

I never said they don’t support the LGBTQ+ community.

 

[thomas998]

If a group feels “abandoned” by Disney because the company openly supports LGBTQ+ civil rights, they were never insisting of neutrality.

No, my thought was that if Disney were to now say we are not supporting anything no matter what right now... the LGBT activists would be abandoned, they would get over it. What Disney is doing now is trying to placate that group which will only alienate the other side. Now you may think one side should be alienated, but as a stockholder of Disney shares I don't want them to alienate either one because both side represent potential revenue.

 

[thomas998]

Supporting a group doesn't mean they are "against" anyone else.

Unless one thinks supporting the LGBT community is somehow an act of opposition against who exactly?

Therein lies the difference between groups. The LGBT community has always been about equality, never about taking anything away from anyone else. Whereas the other side wants the world to revolve around them and erase anyone they don't like.

Hence we've seen comments in this thread where someone won't see Lightyear because there's a lesbian in it. The artists who have spoken up to say they want to see more diversity in Disney's media at no point suggested that Disney no longer include depictions of heterosexuals.

If you support one group that has views that are opposed by another group you give the opposing group the feeling that you are against them. Right now there are basically 2 groups one that wants the gay talk bill one that doesn't, if you side with one you are going to be considered against the other. You cannot avoid that perception which is why it is always stupid for people to discuss politics at work. The reality is you know there are different view amont people you work with and you have no clue which people are going to be personally offended if you take a side counter to what their side is.. but it will happen. Which is why you shouldn't go ranting or raving about or against any particular political party at work. That really applies in spades to corporations that need to remain neutral.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I agree but Disney goes far beyond that already, they don’t just openly welcome everyone, they openly employ everyone, go out of there way to make the parks accessible to everyone... One of the biggest reasons I’m a Disney parks fan is from watching how the CMs interact with autistic kids, deaf kids, blind kids, kids in wheelchairs… and everyone else including the gay community. I’ve never seen another company that tries so hard to accommodate everyone. They aren’t perfect but they already go far beyond just saying it.

And part of that is due to their training, which is why the inclusion key is absolutely an appropriate addition - reflecting their actions.

 

[thomas998]

Agreed. But Disney caused much of this themselves when they suddenly felt the need to add "Inclusion" to their 60 year old 4 Keys training program. Even though the concepts of the Courtesy Key and just following the Golden Rule should have covered Inclusion. But nope, they had to go woke and add an Inclusion Key, even though they did it sort of half-butt and vague.

That opened a pandora's box for employees to demand more and more political activism from the company.

And again, the Inclusion Key seems vapid and pointless. I mean honestly, the company founder said a very famous speech that is still engraved in bronze at the entrance to their park. How the heck do you get more inclusive than this welcoming opening statement at Disneyland's debut???

"To all who come to this happy place, welcome!"
-Walt Disney, July 17th 1955, Disneyland Grand Opening Ceremony

Yes, Disney has made numerous mistakes in the past. And it will not be easy to correct them. But the only way to correct them and avoid future problems is for them to stop acting like social justice warriors and start behaving like Switzerland. Unfortunately it appears that the Disney Board of Directors has some idiots that want to use Disney as their own social justice tool. You don't see Universal having these problems because they aren't being pushed behind the scenes by Board Members more concerned with social justice than with making a profit which is what a Board should really only be focused on. If shareholder or officers of Disney want to support a particular social justice initiative they can freely make donation to support that initiative all they want with their own money.

 

[TP2000]

Inclusion is more than just saying “all are welcome here.” That’s not enough.

Okay. But at the core here, we are really just talking about running amusement parks and some hotels.

Setting aside the movies that Disney also makes (which also deal with the same core business issues the parks do), they are just trying to sell tickets and vacation packages to their amusement parks and hotels. A business should try and be as welcoming as possible to the widest swath of customers as possible. Plus attract and retain the best employees as possible, while still being able to create profit.

At some point, we're going to have to admit that Disney World and Disneyland are just amusement parks and some hotels. Not much more. They're great amusement parks and hotels (or at least they used to be). But that's all this is. It's not a social service agency, nor is it a self-help group, or a psychiatrist's office. It's an amusement park.

Trying to also saddle that amusement park with all sorts of expectations of fostering employee mental health, advancing specific legislative agendas, pandering to the latest fads on TikTok or Social Media, etc. is not the core business here. They just need to keep Space Mountain running to make the majority of their customers happy.

 

[thomas998]

Okay. But at the core here, we are really just talking about running amusement parks and some hotels.

Setting aside the movies that Disney also makes (which also deal with the same core business issues the parks do), they are just trying to sell tickets and vacation packages to their amusement parks and hotels. A business should try and be as welcoming as possible to the widest swath of customers as possible. Plus attract and retain the best employees as possible, while still being able to create profit.

At some point, we're going to have to admit that Disney World and Disneyland are just amusement parks and some hotels. Not much more. They're great amusement parks and hotels (or at least they used to be). But that's all this is. It's not a social service agency, nor is it a self-help group, or a psychiatrist's office. It's an amusement park.

Trying to also saddle that amusement park with all sorts of expectations of fostering employee mental health, advancing specific legislative agendas, pandering to the latest fads on TikTok or Social Media, etc. is not the core business here. They just need to keep Space Mountain running to make the majority of their customers happy.

Amen.

The only things a company should focus on is making sure they operate within the legal constraints that the government sets out for them to follow. The inclusion based decisions that companies like Disney have been making on their own will likely come back to bite them in the future as they often can be attacked as discriminatory against one group for the benefit of the another group. What companies often forget is that the pendulum swings back and forth and things like affirmative action that are praised at one time can just as easily be litigated into big losses when the pendulum swings the other way.