Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

[Californian Elitist]

Okay. But at the core here, we are really just talking about running amusement parks and some hotels.

And yet inclusion is still important here. Why even bring up inclusion in regards to Disneyland if it really doesn’t matter anyway? Again, you’re missing the bigger picture. And you don’t value inclusion to begin with. Just say that.

I don’t expect you or a number of other people here to understand the importance of inclusion, both in the workplace and in other places. I definitely don’t expect you to understand the importance of diversity and equity either. So, agree to disagree.

 

[TP2000]

And yet inclusion is still important here. Why even bring up inclusion in regards to Disneyland if it really doesn’t matter anyway? Again, you’re missing the bigger picture. And you don’t value inclusion to begin with. Just say that.

I don't value inclusion? As a gay man who was actively and openly discriminated against by my government, my employers, my family, my church, the local police, the VA, and even random strangers at the supermarket? Or do you want to tell me how the mid to late 20th century wasn't as bad as I remember it? Teach me, teacher.

I don’t expect you or a number of other people here to understand the importance of inclusion, both in the workplace and in other places. I definitely don’t expect you to understand the importance of diversity and equity either. So, agree to disagree.

I've been mulling over "Inclusion" as it relates to Disney theme parks, because it's now the Fifth Key. The previous Four Keys were all about how to operate a theme park; safely, courteously, showmanshiply (a word, maybe?), and efficiently.

But "Inclusion" is different. This Inclusion Key seems to be aimed solely at the employees of said parks and hotels, and far less at the paying customers. At least that's how the employees of the parks, and many posters in this thread, seem to frame it. It's not about the customers, it's about the employees! Because Inclusion for the customers of the last 67 years seems to have been covered by the other 4 Keys, with the notable exception of the open discrimination by park operators against Gays and Lesbians from 1955 to about the early 1990's.

That seems to be a sea change of sorts for the Keys and Disney's training programs. It's not about the "guests", it's about the employees. Why that change? It doesn't seemed to have worked out well for Disney, if the last 30 days are any indication.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Amen.

The only things a company should focus on is making sure they operate within the legal constraints that the government sets out for them to follow. The inclusion based decisions that companies like Disney have been making on their own will likely come back to bite them in the future as they often can be attacked as discriminatory against one group for the benefit of the another group. What companies often forget is that the pendulum swings back and forth and things like affirmative action that are praised at one time can just as easily be litigated into big losses when the pendulum swings the other way.

That’s not a description of neutrality.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I don't value inclusion? As a gay man who was actively and openly discriminated against by my government, my employers, my family, my church, the local police, the VA, and even random strangers at the supermarket? Or do you want to tell me how the mid to late 20th century wasn't as bad as I remember it? Teach me, teacher.



I've been mulling over "Inclusion" as it relates to Disney theme parks, because it's now the Fifth Key. The previous Four Keys were all about how to operate a theme park; safely, courteously, showmanshiply (a word, maybe?), and efficiently.

But "Inclusion" is different. This Inclusion Key seems to be aimed solely at the employees of said parks and hotels, and far less at the paying customers. At least that's how the employees of the parks, and many posters in this thread, seem to frame it. It's not about the customers, it's about the employees! Because Inclusion for the customers of the last 67 years seems to have been covered by the other 4 Keys, with the notable exception of the open discrimination by park operators against Gays and Lesbians from 1955 to about the early 1990's.

That seems to be a sea change of sorts for the Keys and Disney's training programs. It's not about the "guests", it's about the employees. Why that change? It doesn't seemed to have worked out well for Disney, if the last 30 days are any indication.

I disagree with your second paragraph. As someone - possibly you, I don’t recall - said, Disney is widely known in disability communities for its inclusiveness and how accompanying its employees are. While that is not new to the introduction of the 5th key, having inclusion explicitly as part of the training does make a difference and helps strengthen that impact. Which, as a customer, I absolutely feel and why Disney gets my money every year, because it’s literally one of the only places I’ve ever been able to take my daughter and truly leave the rest of the world behind for a week and just enjoy her childhood.

Having the commitment to be explicit in training to strengthen and maintain inclusion efforts matters to me as a customer.

 

[Communicora]

What rights does it protect? How were those rights previously not protected? Why do the sponsors think those rights will stop the spread of gayness?

Everyone is focused on the "don't say gay" part of it, but I don't think that's why the bill passed. It's a terrible piece of legislation but, from what I'm reading, it is getting support from some parents because of incidents like these, which relate to how some schools are handling "gender identity" rather than concerns over how they handle sexual orientation.

Parents sue Leon County Schools over its LGBTQ policies

Parents of a middle school student are suing Leon County Schools in federal court, claiming the district’s LGBTQ policies illegally exclude parents from gender identity discussions.

www.wctv.tv

Clay parents sue district, claim counselor discussed elementary student’s gender identity without their knowledge

The parents of a Clay County elementary school student are suing the school district, alleging that a school counselor violated parental rights by meeting with the 12-year-old about gender identity.

www.news4jax.com

In a more sane world, the issues raised by incidents like these could be thoughtfully talked through and resolved. Instead, they all becomes grist for culture wars and political campaigns. It's really sad.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Everyone is focused on the "don't say gay" part of it, but I don't think that's why the bill passed. It's a terrible piece of legislation but, from what I'm reading, it is getting support from some parents because of incidents like these, which relate to how some schools are handling "gender identity" rather than concerns over how they handle sexual orientation.

Parents sue Leon County Schools over its LGBTQ policies

Parents of a middle school student are suing Leon County Schools in federal court, claiming the district’s LGBTQ policies illegally exclude parents from gender identity discussions.

www.wctv.tv

Clay parents sue district, claim counselor discussed elementary student’s gender identity without their knowledge

The parents of a Clay County elementary school student are suing the school district, alleging that a school counselor violated parental rights by meeting with the 12-year-old about gender identity.

www.news4jax.com

In a more sane world, the issues raised by incidents like this could be thoughtfully talked through and resolved. Instead, they all becomes grist for culture wars and political campaigns. It's really sad.

People focus on the “Don’t say gay” part because the sponsors are under the impression that this bill will stop the spread of gayness and that language changing the bill to be about all sexual activities would fit the bill.

I don’t recall anyone who has said that there aren’t issues at schools, that there aren’t people who act inappropriately. None of that is actually addressed by this legislation.

 

[Communicora]

People focus on the “Don’t say gay” part because the sponsors are under the impression that this bill will stop the spread of gayness and that language changing the bill to be about all sexual activities would fit the bill.

I don’t recall anyone who has said that there aren’t issues at schools, that there aren’t people who act inappropriately. None of that is actually addressed by this legislation.

I agree that the sponsors have terrible beliefs, and again, I do not support the bill, but there is language in the bill that specifically addresses some parent's concerns over incidents like these.

If we are going to discuss the impact of the bill, we should discuss the bill as a whole.

Lines 67-96:

(c)1. In accordance with the rights of parents enumerated in ss. 1002.20 and 1014.04, adopt procedures for notifying a student's parent if there is a change in the student's services or monitoring related to the student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being and the school's ability to provide a safe and supportive learning environment for the student. The procedures must reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children by requiring school district personnel to encourage a student to discuss issues relating to his or her well-being with his or her parent or to facilitate discussion of the issue with the parent. The procedures may not prohibit parents from accessing any of their student's education and health records created, maintained, or used by the school district, as required by s. 1002.22(2).

2. A school district may not adopt procedures or student support forms that prohibit school district personnel from notifying a parent about his or her student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being, or a change in related services or monitoring, or that encourage or have the effect of encouraging a student to withhold from a parent such information. School district personnel may not discourage or prohibit parental notification of and involvement in critical decisions affecting a student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being. This subparagraph does not prohibit a school district from adopting procedures that permit school personnel to withhold such information from a parent if a reasonably prudent person would believe that disclosure would result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect, as those terms are defined in s. 39.01.

Edited because I wanted to copy directly from the text of the bill and it needed some tidying up.

 

[Communicora]

Sorry for posting twice in a row, but I wanted to bring this back to the core topic at hand. I think it's the parental support of the bill that makes this a more complicated issue for Disney and that parental support can't just be handwaved away as bigotry, regardless of the bigotry of the bill's sponsors.

Once I read more about the bill I had sympathy for Disney's initial behind the scenes approach.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I agree that the sponsors have terrible beliefs, and again, I do not support the bill, but there is language in the bill that specifically addresses some parent's concerns over incidents like these.

If we are going to discuss the impact of the bill, we should discuss the bill as a whole.

Lines 67-96:

(c)1. In accordance with the rights of parents enumerated in ss. 1002.20 and 1014.04, adopt procedures for notifying a student's parent if there is a change in the student's services or monitoring related to the student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being and the school's ability to provide a safe and supportive learning environment for the student. The procedures must reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children by requiring school district personnel to encourage a student to discuss issues relating to his or her well-being with his or her parent or to facilitate discussion of the issue with the parent. The procedures may not prohibit parents from accessing any of their student's education and 80 health records created, maintained, or used by the school 81 district, as required by s. 1002.22(2).

2. A school district may not adopt procedures or student support forms that prohibit school district personnel from notifying a parent about his or her student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being, or a change in related services or monitoring, or that encourage or have the effect of encouraging a student to withhold from a parent such information. School district personnel may not discourage or prohibit parental notification of and involvement in critical decisions affecting a student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being. This subparagraph does not prohibit a school district from adopting procedures that permit school personnel to withhold such information from a parent if a reasonably prudent person would believe that disclosure would result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect, as those terms are defined in s. 39.01.

Edited because I wanted to copy directly from the text of the bill and it needed some tidying up.

There’s often a reason kids don’t want to tell things to their parents. Betraying their confidence regarding something that continues to result in harm towards children is not fixed anything except keeping people in the closet.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I don't value inclusion? As a gay man who was actively and openly discriminated against by my government, my employers, my family, my church, the local police, the VA, and even random strangers at the supermarket? Or do you want to tell me how the mid to late 20th century wasn't as bad as I remember it? Teach me, teacher.



I've been mulling over "Inclusion" as it relates to Disney theme parks, because it's now the Fifth Key. The previous Four Keys were all about how to operate a theme park; safely, courteously, showmanshiply (a word, maybe?), and efficiently.

But "Inclusion" is different. This Inclusion Key seems to be aimed solely at the employees of said parks and hotels, and far less at the paying customers. At least that's how the employees of the parks, and many posters in this thread, seem to frame it. It's not about the customers, it's about the employees! Because Inclusion for the customers of the last 67 years seems to have been covered by the other 4 Keys, with the notable exception of the open discrimination by park operators against Gays and Lesbians from 1955 to about the early 1990's.

That seems to be a sea change of sorts for the Keys and Disney's training programs. It's not about the "guests", it's about the employees. Why that change? It doesn't seemed to have worked out well for Disney, if the last 30 days are any indication.

I won’t be teaching you anything, TP. If you’d genuinely like to learn more about diversity, equity, and inclusion, particularly the way it’s being discussed now, feel free to find a course on it at your nearest community college. Or maybe even a workshop. And no, you don’t seem to value it, based on your posts. You can talk about being gay, but, again, your posts don’t seem to suggest that you would rally behind and stand up for your own community. I’ve seen you make jokes, make fun of, and roll your eyes with the use of emojis surrounding concerns social issues regarding both the LGBTQ+ community and other communities. Just because you were unjustly discriminated against from the mid to late 20th century (I’m genuinely sorry to hear this), it doesn’t mean that you automatically value inclusion. Again, your posts, jokes, sarcasm, eye rolling, etc. suggest otherwise.

Incorporating diversity, equity, and inclusion in the workplace has been a thing for years now. If done correctly, it can be very beneficial for both employees and the people that they serve. Because of this, companies, schools, and other places of work incorporate diversity, equity, and inclusion training for employees. To do this, they usually hire experts. I’m not currently working for Disney, and even if I was, it’s possible that other departments within the company are actually correctly and effectively practicing DEI, but the way the Parks & Resorts division is handling it is wrong and doesn’t seem to be very effective. With that being said, the intent behind incorporating it into the company is not abnormal at all.

That’s why that change. It’s not working out at the moment because of Chapek and his hurtful statement.

 

[Communicora]

There’s often a reason kids don’t want to tell things to their parents. Betraying their confidence regarding something that continues to result in harm towards children is not fixed anything except keeping people in the closet.

Absolutely, and it's sad that all kids don't have supportive parents. I'm also sympathetic to other parents who see some of these situations and think schools have handled them inappropriately.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Absolutely, and it's sad that all kids don't have supportive parents. I'm also sympathetic to other parents who see some of these situations and think schools have handled them inappropriately.

One of the main mouth pieces that have been driving the “parental rights” school board attacks in my area testified last night. Went off on a personal attack against the one school board member who is gay. Called the sb member pro-communist and pro-pedophile. Included in her rantings we’re comments about the Supreme Court nominee.

Her speech was quite obviously intended to get her on national news. It had absolutely nothing to do with the running of our school system. Just name calling and political ranting.

These movements aren’t about parental rights.

 

[Communicora]

One of the main mouth pieces that have been driving the “parental rights” school board attacks in my area testified last night. Went off on a personal attack against the one school board member who is gay. Called the sb member pro-communist and pro-pedophile. Included in her rantings we’re comments about the Supreme Court nominee.

Her speech was quite obviously intended to get her on national news. It had absolutely nothing to do with the running of our school system. Just name calling and political ranting.

These movements aren’t about parental rights.

Yes, and some of these things are being pushed by people who aren't even parents.

However, the polling about the bill shows it does have a fair amount of support and I can see why Disney was initially working behind the scenes instead of making a statement about it. The activism on both sides has put Disney in a sticky wicket and Chapek's clumsiness has made it even worse than it had to be.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I’m curious to see what Disney’s long game is here. If the political winds shift sharply in 2022 and 2024, will they stay the course on an unpopular stance? Outright flip flop? Or put this era in the realm of Things We Never Speak Of (in the voice of Pitch Meeting guy “What?! We never made a political statement about DeSantis! No, we didn’t. NO, we didn’t.”

Alternately, if things stay the same, are they going to be good with losing a fair number of conservative customers and just move on?

My bet would be that they go the route of replacing Chapek and never speaking of it again, but I’m genuinely curious. It seems they’ve painted themselves into quite a corner on this one.

 

[Parteecia]

At least part of Disney's problem is that some employees publicly protested. Universal's and others did not. Is it a sign of deeper internal issues?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’m curious to see what Disney’s long game is here. If the political winds shift sharply in 2022 and 2024, will they stay the course on an unpopular stance? Outright flip flop? Or put this era in the realm of Things We Never Speak Of (in the voice of Pitch Meeting guy “What?! We never made a political statement about DeSantis! No, we didn’t. NO, we didn’t.”

Alternately, if things stay the same, are they going to be good with losing a fair number of conservative customers and just move on?

My bet would be that they go the route of replacing Chapek and never speaking of it again, but I’m genuinely curious. It seems they’ve painted themselves into quite a corner on this one.

People have been protesting Disney’s gay agenda for decades now. People even implored George Kalogridis to cancel Gay Days when he bacame President of Walt Disney World.

 

[John park hopper]

What other groups does Disney official recognize and have special days for?

 

[Californian Elitist]

At least part of Disney's problem is that some employees publicly protested. Universal's and others did not. Is it a sign of deeper internal issues?

It’s Chapek. Had he not released that statement, I don’t think he and arguably the company would be in the mess they’re in now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What other groups does Disney official recognize and have special days for?

Gay Days isn’t a Disney event.

 

[Parteecia]

It’s Chapek. Had he not released that statement, I don’t think he and arguably the company would be in the mess they’re in now.

Ok, but there was pressure that caused him to put out that statement? Something that didn't happen at other companies?