Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

[ImperfectPixie]

The chart states it's for 5th grade, which is when many students start puberty.

I wasn't talking about the chart in the comment you quoted?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Speaking of kindergartners, calling this number will get you words of wisdom and encouragement from the sweetest children. It made my day yesterday.

Just to ease a pinch of the tension here.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Not a bigot. And not homophobic. I say, as adults, go live your lives and be happy. But we're talking about 5-8 year olds. Who are still in early stages of their mental development and VERY impressionable. Don't like the term? Call it something else. Just leave the sexuality/gender talk at home where it belongs. With the parents.

So you would have no problem with a second grader's two mommies being acknowledged in class in the same way as every other family in the class, right? Crayon drawings of the family that get hung on the wall, talking about what their families did for summer vacation, etc?

 

[BuddyThomas]

If the other side runs what they currently got it will be 80-20 for the Governor. They won’t even need to mention sex Ed for babies .

No one has mentioned "sex ed for babies". No one. Not one single person.

 

[The Mom]

I wasn't talking about the chart in the comment you quoted?

Sorry. I saw a curriculum, chart and thought I was quoting your response to the person who posted it.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

And no, I am definitely not tuned into "the kids." I have never been far left. I don't like either extreme. I had to unfollow things like "huffpost gay voices" because the articles were ridiculous and the comments were worse. I've been disparaged for being cisgendered (identifying as the sex I was born) and for being male, being white, and marrying another white man.

A great post that highlights how “shades of gray” the world is, very few of us fall into strictly black or white categories.

I consider myself quite liberal in many ways but simultaneously quite conservative in many other ways. Our lines in the sand all vary.

So you would have no problem with a second grader's two mommies being acknowledged in class in the same way as every other family in the class, right? Crayon drawings of the family that get hung on the wall, talking about what their families did for summer vacation, etc?

Not directed at me but I’d have no problem with that, I don’t want the teacher telling an 8 year old boy they can be a mommy too if they want to be though. That’s where I draw my line.

 

[Casper Gutman]

"Gay" is not in the bill. Not acknowledging gay people is not in the bill. What is in the bill is "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Why not wait until children are more mentally mature before discussing those subjects. What is your obsession with sex and children?

We've gone through this before. Let's do it again.

This bill does not effect just K-3. It effects EVERY grade.

The state standards it references will not be written for a full year after this bill takes effect. Why?

An amendment was proposed explicitly including heterosexuality as a "sexual orientation" in this bill. The bill's supporters voted it down. Why?

An amendment was proposed banning all discussion of sex acts in K-3. The bill's supporters voted it down, with one saying it would "gut" the bill. Why?

This bill includes a very particular enforcement mechanism by which parents are allowed to sue. The bill could simply have banned the things it wants to ban. Why include the lawsuit provision?

The "grooming" line is pure hate harkening back to a long history of homophobic slurs. It has no place on these boards and should be universally condemned.

 

[Californian Elitist]

So you would have no problem with a second grader's two mommies being acknowledged in class in the same way as every other family in the class, right? Crayon drawings of the family that get hung on the wall, talking about what their families did for summer vacation, etc?

I remember doing those drawings in school.

If I was a teacher, got married, and changed my name, what should I do if my students asked why I changed my name? Should I be honest and tell them that I married a man or should I lie and come up with some sort of story? Or maybe even ignore their questions?

That would certainly be heading into talks of sexuality.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So you would have no problem with a second grader's two mommies being acknowledged in class in the same way as every other family in the class, right? Crayon drawings of the family that get hung on the wall, talking about what their families did for summer vacation, etc?

I think "both sides" here are sort of exaggerating the amount of roundtable discussion that happens in second grade classrooms.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Anti-grooming? Seriously? Where did you get that?

And if you think "discussion on sexuality, gender, etc. doesn't belong in a public school classroom with 5-8 year olds" "full stop" then you are a prime candidate for enrolling your children in private schools or home schooling.

Society at large cannot cater to irrational fears of nothing.

The grooming nonsense comes straight from DeSantis:

Anyone who opposes Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill is 'probably a groomer,' DeSantis press secretary says

The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week

theweek.com

 

[Tony the Tigger]

This thread went off the rails. There seems to be a handful of quite angry folks. Good luck to all.

Anger at discrimination is appropriate and justifiable. Why aren't you angry?

How should a teacher respond when Suzie says "I want to be a boy and my mom won't let me"?

Refer them to the guidance counselor.

You guys are kind of making our case on this point.

TikTok is filth. There are teachers who are active on TikTok and participate in the filth. If you ban your kids from TikTok and choose not to do it yourself, that's not going to do you any good if your kid's teacher is a wannabe TikTok star herself.

I am not "on TikTok" but I may need to put my company on there at some point. Facebook shows me some TikTok videos as part of the "reels" feature. So does Instagram. Obviously, it's not all "filth." I've seen recipes, workout tips, silly dances everyone is replicating, etc.

Like any other platform, it is what you make of it. I certainly don't seek out "the weird stuff" and I don't know why anyone does. Parents have the choice to keep their kids off TikTok or anything else. And kids will get around it to some degree, like everything else.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Anger at discrimination is appropriate and justifiable. Why aren't you angry?

Refer them to the guidance counselor.

I am not "on TikTok" but I may need to put my company on there at some point. Facebook shows me some TikTok videos as part of the "reels" feature. So does Instagram. Obviously, it's not all "filth." I've seen recipes, workout tips, silly dances everyone is replicating, etc.

Like any other platform, it is what you make of it. I certainly don't seek out "the weird stuff" and I don't know why anyone does. Parents have the choice to keep their kids off TikTok or anything else. And kids will get around it to some degree, like everything else.

Just be aware that there are security issues with the app. I wouldn't install it on a device that has any private information.

 

[RunningKoen]

Thank you for this. I’m American, but I’ve spent years reading about how these issues are approached in Europe, and especially in the Netherlands, which to me has always seemed to be the gold standard in approaches to education surrounding sexuality.
America is still so puritanical in so many ways, to the extent that people will tell children stories about storks to avoid what should be totally innocuous facts of human biology.
I don’t really have a point, but I suppose I wish my countrymen could see how ridiculous we look to the rest of the world. I know I remember reading about how absurdly bowdlerized The Making of Me seemed to European guests, and that fact alone helped change my perspective.
(Also, this strain of isolationist counter-culturalism in American society that manifests in attempts to place legal gags on teachers and, in extreme cases, ideologically-charged homeschooling, is very concerning to me. But then America’s glorification of individualism has always been a double-edged sword…)

@willf
One of the things we've noticed in the recent years is that more and more schools are doing an entire themed week in spring, which is called ' lentekriebels' roughly translated to ' spring fever' .

The entire school (for us, thats from age 4 till 12) is doing age related lessons and specific task around the cycle of nature: little animals being borns, plants and flowers waking up, but also their own feelings related to that. The feelings around the entire sexual theme is somehow linked to spring it seems.

It's very funny to see how each age group is dealing with the same general subject on a totally different way.
Feelings like friendship but also early sign of attraction to others are discussed, own boundaries for subjects as saying no, and for the higher groups the first types of sex-ed.

Some schools are doing this regular or during other moments of the year, but the general attention towards this is getting bigger, and earlier.

Keep in mind that for us, during primary schools, the first girls will start to get their periods, and bodies will start changing. And that isnt the first step of puberty. The changes in kids minds, feelings (and hormones) happen before there are physical changes.

It can happen, very rarely, so early that the kids impacted by this bill are dealing with the first steps of puberty already.

 

[The Mom]

I have repeatedly asked people to be courteous to other posters - even if you hate what they are saying. I have also asked that the political discussion be limited to this very specific topic. many of you do not seem to be able to do so, so you will not be posting anymore.

Please do not bother to send me a PM - if you find yourself shut out there is a reason for it. You've been rude, insulting, straying into other areas of politics, etc.

 

[RunningKoen]

Edit: looks like the post I replied to is removed. Not sure what to do. @The Mom, remove this one if needed.

I am allowed to be near an elementary school. Actually, I'm quite wanted to be there. Otherwise there would be no school. The hard life of being a teacher

As I said before: it would amaze you have many big or little things 5 years old ask about the general theme of sex. Maybe your own 5 yours old never asked you any questions (Just to be sure: never noticed was anything slightly sex related in their observations and questions? Not why their body is different then the other sex? stuff like that?) , but with a group of 20, it happens. Kids, even the youngest ones, have words for their privates parts. Even subjects like that are, for a school, sex-related. How do you deal with a little one screaming the 'wrong' kind of name a bit too hard?

That doesn't mean there's a full biology course of sex-ed with all the details, but even the youngest one notice things

 

[lazyboy97o]

So hey, an amendment was proposed to this bill banning all discussion of sex acts in K-3. This bill's legislative supporters voted it down (twice, once in the house and once in the senate). Why? Do you think supporters of this bill want to talk about sex with children?

It’s amazing how nobody wants to address this issue. Nobody will provide even a hypothetical explanation for why those amendments were insufficient.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Right but some of the activist teacher types are planting the seeds of gender dysphoria

This I would not support. I also find it difficult to believe it occurs other than in bizarre exceptions that should be dealt with appropriately. I'm sure it's not part of any lesson plan.

If 99% of kindergartners saw the word "ze" on the page, they would look at you like you had six heads. Then they'd ask what it means, and in explaining it, math class just became a de facto lesson in gender identity.

This I have no problem with. This is the reality of the world around you.

 

[RunningKoen]

The chart states it's for 5th grade, which is when many students start puberty.

I dont know the grade system in the US. What's the age of this grade?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I dont know the grade system in the US. What's the age of this grade?

In general, grade plus 5 equals age.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I dont know the grade system in the US. What's the age of this grade?

10-11. My younger son is a 5th-grader.