Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

[Kingoglow]

I meant 21st century kids on Social Media who support cancel culture, or the smart set at Yale Law School. Go back to the 20th century and college was supposed to be a place where young people were exposed to different opinions and ideas, and then they would make their own opinion based on a diversity of thought. That doesn't happen much any more in college, especially at the most expensive and exclusive schools like Yale, Harvard, Stanford, etc.

It's a very troubling thing that young people in academia would not only refuse to listen to differing opinions at college, but would then actively try to prevent the person from even speaking their opinion out loud. Ironically, the event at Yale the kids protested was a presentation about the importance of "Free Speech". These children are idiots.

Yale law students disrupt bipartisan free speech panel, trigger police escort

More than 100 woke Yale Law School students disrupted a bipartisan panel on civil liberties by trying to shout down and intimidate the speakers.

nypost.com

Your characterization that college students are children is a problem. They are adults.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

IMO, not being able to simply acknowledge the existence of trans people is stripping support. Acknowledging existence isn't the same thing as planting the seeds of gender dysphoria.

Right but some of the activist teacher types are planting the seeds of gender dysphoria, which is the motivation behind the good-faith supporters of this type of legislation.

We're really have three debates.

Debate 1: Is it legitimate for parents to want to limit the types of instruction their young children receive in areas such as sex, sexuality, and gender identity, or is any objection to that type of content rooted in bigotry?

Debate 2: If #1 is legitimate, is this legislation an effective means to that end?

Debate 3: What role, if any, should The Walt Disney Company play in any of this?

Well as an actual classroom teacher we don’t discuss that with our students and if it presents itself in class we discourage the behavior. If it continues we contact parents and let them handle that topic. It’s pretty much the standard in most all districts but again with all your experience you should know that.

The fact that you're a good teacher doesn't mean bad teachers don't exist. My daughter's first grade teacher is a gay man and he's the most fantastic educator I've ever met. That doesn't mean all of his colleagues, gay, straight, or other, are of his caliber.

 

[Andrew C]

Professionals puts it just on those in the education profession. It doesn't include legislators at the state and national levels, which is my point. Sorry that wasn't clear.

That’s fine. Just letting you know I wasn’t singling out teachers.

 

[Californian Elitist]

There are thousands of these. These aren't teachers, they're activists with a classroom.

I would them an activist, but okay. If I had kids, I’d love for someone like them to be their teacher.

This is actually an example of what we’ve been talking about. According to the video, the students asked them questions after they changed their name and they answered them, even in a very sweet way to where they would understand. Were they supposed to ignore the questions? Also, this doesn’t appear to be a lesson on pronouns. It doesn’t look like the teacher sat down and created a lesson plan with activities on pronouns. They simply answered the questions that naturally came up after changing their name.

I mentioned this before, but when my sister was in the fifth grade, someone asked the teacher if he was gay. He answered the question and moved on. Not the same as having entire lesson plans on pronouns, gender identity, homosexuality, etc.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Right but some of the activist teacher types are planting the seeds of gender dysphoria, which is the motivation behind the good-faith supporters of this type of legislation.

We're really have two debates.

Debate 1: Is it legitimate for parents to want to limit the types of instruction their young children receive in areas such as sex, sexuality, and gender identity, or is any objection to that type of content rooted in bigotry?

Debate 2: If #1 is legitimate, is this legislation an effective means to that end?

Even the video you posted above isn't planting the seed of gender dysphoria. The person in that is sharing with theri students what they want to be called, and that it makes *them* happy. Nothing in that video was encouraging a child to question how the child feels about themselves or their own gender.

As for Debate #1 - yes, it's legitimate, which is why parent-opt out for family life curriculum has always been an option. This bill didn't create that, it has always been a parent's right to view the curriculum and opt their child out.

Debate #2 - A person's individual objection doesn't give them the right to change the available curriculum to ALL students. That is why the opt-outs have always existed. Why is the ability to opt your own child out of family life curriculum not enough? That brings the conversation beyond it being about parental rights, as parents already have the right to opt their child out.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Well as an actual classroom teacher we don’t discuss that with our students and if it presents itself in class we discourage the behavior. If it continues we contact parents and let them handle that topic. It’s pretty much the standard in most all districts but again with all your experience you should know that.

I do know that.

But apparently some are appalled at the idea of speaking to their own children about things that are happening to their bodies.

ETA: Sex-ed here starts in 5th grade.

 

[Angel Ariel]

That’s fine. Just letting you know I wasn’t singling out teachers.

I appreciate that - but my overall point was that education professionals have been incredibly impacted by people who are NOT in the profession, and the post didn't acknowledge that.

 

[marymarypoppins]

I do know that.

But apparently some are appalled at the idea of speaking to their own children about things that are happening to their bodies.

ETA: Sex-ed here starts in 5th grade.

Which is an appropriate grade to start.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I would them an activist, but okay. If I had kids, I’d love for someone like them to be their teacher.

This is actually an example of what we’ve been talking about. According to the video, the students asked them questions after they changed their name and they answered them, even in a very sweet way to where they would understand. Were they supposed to ignore the questions? Also, this doesn’t appear to be a lesson on pronouns. It doesn’t look like the teacher sat down and created a lesson plan with activities on pronouns. They simply answered the questions that naturally came up after changing their name.

I mentioned this before, but when my sister was in the fifth grade, someone asked the teacher if he was gay. He answered the question and moved on. Not the same as having entire lesson plans on pronouns, gender identity, homosexuality, etc.

I just think this is a misreading of "the facts on the ground," as it were. Your sister's fifth grade teacher not being an ideologue does not disprove the existence of ideologues.

If you'd like some more egregious examples, I'll circle back later. I've seen specific things, inside classrooms, that I don't want to pull back up while I'm on my work computer.

Even the video you posted above isn't planting the seed of gender dysphoria. The person in that is sharing with theri students what they want to be called, and that it makes *them* happy. Nothing in that video was encouraging a child to question how the child feels about themselves or their own gender.

As for Debate #1 - yes, it's legitimate, which is why parent-opt out for family life curriculum has always been an option. This bill didn't create that, it has always been a parent's right to view the curriculum and opt their child out.

Debate #2 - A person's individual objection doesn't give them the right to change the available curriculum to ALL students. That is why the opt-outs have always existed. Why is the ability to opt your own child out of family life curriculum not enough? That brings the conversation beyond it being about parental rights, as parents already have the right to opt their child out.

I think you're putting way too much stock in the word "curriculum." Curriculum isn't nearly as detailed as you're making it out to be. It's a rough outline onto which teachers craft their lesson plans.

An activist teacher could be working on Number Sense, and ask her Kindergarten class "if Jamie had three apples and ze ate one, how many would ze have left?"

How would opting out of "Family Life" curriculum help in that circumstance?

 

[Californian Elitist]

I just think this is a misreading of "the facts on the ground," as it were. Your sister's fifth grade teacher not being an ideologue does not disprove the existence of ideologues.

If you'd like some more egregious examples, I'll circle back later. I've seen specific things, inside classrooms, that I don't want to pull back up while I'm on my work computer.


I think you're putting way too much stock in the word "curriculum." Curriculum isn't nearly as detailed as you're making it out to be. It's a rough outline onto which teachers craft their lesson plans.

We can just agree to disagree.

 

[TP2000]

Your characterization that college students are children is a problem. They are adults.

The people in this video aren't adults emotionally, they are still children. They also are students at Yale Law School protesting a presentation on the constitutional importance of Freedom of Speech, which is the shocking part.

When they were asked to leave the presentation, they stomped around outside and yelled at the windows, trying to prevent the presentation from going on inside. Afterwards, the police had to be called to escort the speakers that Yale had invited safely off campus while the kids screamed at them. The act of immature children, not thinking adults.

This happened last week at Yale, which used to be the best law school in America.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

We can just agree to disagree.

I actually think we're getting somewhere.

Is it fair to say that your primary objection is "these things aren't happening" rather than "these things are happening and if you object to them you're a bigot"?

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think you're putting way too much stock in the word "curriculum." Curriculum isn't nearly as detailed as you're making it out to be. It's a rough outline onto which teachers craft their lesson plans.

I'm a teacher, I'm well aware of what curriculum is. The topics that will be covered are very clear, especially when it comes to family life standards. I've posted multiple examples in this thread previously. Family life lessons in my district are very much scripted. There is a district-wide advisory committee, which includes parental representatives, that approves the curriculum every year. The work of the curriculum and documents are made public every year. Opt-outs have to be renewed every year, and each year documentation comes home for parents to access what those lessons will entail.

 

[WDWFanRay]

Disney has (and always had) a big problem. Their company is anchored in, arguably, the most liberal state in the union (California) and the most conservative state in the union (Florida) So far, they have been relatively successful navigating the delicate balance between those two ideologies, but they have had their fair share of failures over the years. As someone who lived in So California for 40 years and now has lived in Florida for almost 20 years, the chasm between the two Ideologies has never been more farther apart, and it appears to be growing even further apart. Since there is no chance that Disney would ever leave their biggest asset in Florida, they are going to have to learn how to live with the conservative states ideologies, and not just try and force California’s views on to Florida.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm a teacher, I'm well aware of what curriculum is. The topics that will be covered are very clear, especially when it comes to family life standards. I've posted multiple examples in this thread previously. Family life lessons in my district are very much scripted. There is a district-wide advisory committee, which includes parental representatives, that approves the curriculum every year. The work of the curriculum and documents are made public every year. Opt-outs have to be renewed every year, and each year documentation comes home for parents to access what those lessons will entail.

See my edit.

The concern (my concern, at least) isn't the Family Life curriculum, it's people who infuse this stuff into all of the other curriculum. I had a math teacher once who made every single word problem somehow about the New York Yankees.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Which is an appropriate grade to start.

I don't disagree.

However, the US does have a MASSIVE problem with parents not talking to their children when they should and about the things they should...and it contributes in a big way to teen pregnancies.

Perhaps the answer is to have classes for parents to take to help them talk to their children?

 

[Californian Elitist]

I actually think we're getting somewhere.

Is it fair to say that your primary objection is "these things aren't happening" rather than "these things are happening and if you object to them you're a bigot"?

My objection is towards those who believe that K-3 teachers are actually creating lesson plans on these topics, believing that it’s part of curriculum. I don’t know what every single K-3 teacher is teaching in their classrooms, but since these topics aren’t in the curriculum, I’m going to assume that most aren’t creating their own lesson plans on the topics.

 

[Angel Ariel]

An activist teacher could be working on Number Sense, and ask her Kindergarten class "if Jamie had three apples and ze ate one, how many would ze have left?"

How would opting out of "Family Life" curriculum help in that circumstance?

This is a different conversation.

Pronouns aren’t teaching sexuality. Pronouns aren’t family life. They just exist. Using She/he doesn’t constitute teaching gender identity or sexuality. Neither should they/them or any other pronoun. Pronouns should be treated as nothing more than a language arts lesson. Pronouns have been added to our lexicon that didn’t exist 30 years ago. lots of words that didn’t exist 30 years ago have been added to our daily usage. Children won’t think anything sexual of using specific pronouns unless given such a perspective by adults. treat it like it’s just another word. There’s no reason to treat it as more.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This is a different conversation.

Pronouns aren’t teaching sexuality. Pronouns aren’t family life. They just exist. Using She/he doesn’t constitute teaching gender identity or sexuality. Neither should they/them or any other pronoun. Pronouns should be treated as nothing more than a language arts lesson. Pronouns have been added to our lexicon that didn’t exist 30 years ago. lots of words that didn’t exist 30 years ago have been added to our daily usage. Children won’t think anything sexual of using specific pronouns unless given such a perspective by adults. treat it like it’s just another word. There’s no reason to treat it as more.

If 99% of kindergartners saw the word "ze" on the page, they would look at you like you had six heads. Then they'd ask what it means, and in explaining it, math class just became a de facto lesson in gender identity.

 

[Angel Ariel]

If 99% of kindergartners saw the word "ze" on the page, they would look at you like you had six heads. Then they'd ask what it means, and in explaining it, math class just became a de facto lesson in gender identity.

They ask what it says and you simply say “it’s a pronoun referring to Jaime” and move on. You may have to explain what a pronoun is at that point, as they haven’t been taught that yet - but then sharing the definition of a pronoun (a word that is used instead of the person’s name, for ex) - also isn’t teaching about gender identity. Or simply say “it’s a word referring to Jaime” and then you don’t have to even go into what a pronoun is.

It is not de facto going to gender identity

(And honestly I’d be more likely to think that kindergarteners would just see it as a typo for “he”, and likely wouldn’t question it at all)