Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

[ImperfectPixie]

That's where I get confused. I'm a childless gay man and I don't even remember 1st or 2nd grade. My earliest memories of school is 3rd grade; hazy memories of my teacher Miss Sorensen and my classroom with yellow walls.

So I'm very confused on why schools are even mentioning sex and sexuality to pre-schoolers through third graders?!? How is that even an appropriate topic for a 4 to 8 year old child? Yikes!

Someone is going to have to walk me through how that type of sexuality topic plays out for 6 year olds in a classroom. I just don't get it. It's creepy and just seems wrong to me.



Isn't that exactly what the argument is though? Florida's elected representatives passed a law banning the discussion of sex and sexuality for children from preschool through the 3rd grade; ages 4 through 8.

That seems like a very rational law, although I'm still flummoxed why it was even needed in the first place. I'd also like to see what the proposed sexuality curricula was for 6 year old kids. Because again, it just seems wildly inappropriate to be discussing that stuff with very young kids who don't even know what sex is yet.

Sex and sexuality aren't discussed in k-3...that's why this law isn't what so many people (including it's authors) are trying to say it is - laws regarding sex-ed and parental rights in school have been on the books for decades already.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Sexuality and sexual orientation are not the same thing, imo. It may be splitting hairs, but I do think those are important hairs to split. Kids are learning about relationships via observation from the moment they are born. putting LGBTQ labels to the relationships theyve seen since birth isn’t teaching “sexuality,” imo, and should be treated as just a fact of existence - these relationships exist.

Teaching about the act of sex and intimacy - yes i am in agreement with you there, that when to teach that is a belief issue - one easily solved by the existing opt-out frameworks used across the country.

I think 99% of us agree on that fact but there is a minority that are pushing adult concepts to kids at very young ages (someone mentioned a second grader earlier that uses the preferred pronouns they/them… how does a second grader even know what a preferred pronoun is?) and that scares the heck out of people on the other side.

I have a friend who allows his kids to dress however they want, they have a 10 year old boy and 8 and 6 year old girls, they all have long hair and half the time I can’t tell the 10 and 8 year old apart from a distance because they look alike and dress alike (whether skirts or Bermuda shorts or whatever else they feel comfortable in that day), they encourage the kids to be themselves and I think that’s cool, the kids are oblivious to the concept of sexual identity or gender orientation though, they aren’t pushing them towards anything or making them identify themselves, just letting them learn as they go.

Kids aren’t blind to what’s going on around them but they should be allowed to be kids before being confronted with things like what preferred pronouns they want to be called or how they identify. I’ve read stories of parents taking pre-teens for gender transition drugs… I just don’t think kids should be making irreversible decisions at such a young age. (I find gender therapy just as disturbing, parents need to quit trying to force their kids to be a reflection of their personal politics, just let them figure it out).

As I’ve said multiple times this bill is far too vague, I get the idea behind it though (primarily that it’s political), it’s trying to prevent things from being introduced to impressionable kids that they can’t fully grasp yet.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

Here's my one contribution to this thread, a hypothetical situation: a school district begins teaching that life begins at conception and abortion is murder. Some parents might object to this. Should they sue the district? Or keep hands off?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's where I get confused. I'm a childless gay man and I don't even remember 1st or 2nd grade. My earliest memories of school is 3rd grade; hazy memories of my teacher Miss Sorensen and my classroom with yellow walls.

So I'm very confused on why schools are even mentioning sex and sexuality to pre-schoolers through third graders?!? How is that even an appropriate topic for a 4 to 8 year old child? Yikes!

Someone is going to have to walk me through how that type of sexuality topic plays out for 6 year olds in a classroom. I just don't get it. It's creepy and just seems wrong to me.



Isn't that exactly what the argument is though? Florida's elected representatives passed a law banning the discussion of sex and sexuality for children from preschool through the 3rd grade; ages 4 through 8.

That seems like a very rational law, although I'm still flummoxed why it was even needed in the first place. I'd also like to see what the proposed sexuality curricula was for 6 year old kids. Because again, it just seems wildly inappropriate to be discussing that stuff with very young kids who don't even know what sex is yet.

Sex and sexuality aren't discussed in k-3...that's why this law isn't what so many people (including it's authors) are trying to say it is - laws regarding sex-ed and parental rights in school have been on the books for decades already.

I think the danger here is not that Mrs johnson in the 2nd grade at Lake Wacaponka ES would see it as a gateway to teach a class on tantric…

…I think it might cause a horrid situation when kids…even that young…note a difference (not negative) in their peers that they will try to process.

I do not advocate any reproductive discussions to kids far older than that. But I wouldn’t vote for a law that shuts down an avenue to help. Remember that schools are very much are social services office. They have to be. These are kids who don’t know what they need to do at many times. It’s part of life.

All I can say is that I…many moons ago…had 3 kids as classmates that were apparent to most “gay” (hate that term)…no later than 1st or 2nd grade and that ended up being true much later. Nothing ever was said…nothing ever happened…no bad story.

But we didn’t have a dangerous tool that changes the game in my mind. Hint: everyone reading this thread is on it right now.


I hate this from both sides. Hate it. It’s legislating for points and I could have SWORN people claim to not want to make unwanted thrusts into its people’s lives?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I think 99% of us agree on that fact but there is a minority that are pushing adult concepts to kids at very young ages (someone mentioned a second grader earlier that uses the preferred pronouns they/them… how does a second grader even know what a preferred pronoun is?) and that scares the heck out of people on the other side.

I have a friend who allows his kids to dress however they want, they have a 10 year old boy and 8 and 6 year old girls, they all have long hair and half the time I can’t tell the 10 and 8 year old apart from a distance because they look alike and dress alike (whether skirts or Bermuda shorts or whatever else they feel comfortable in that day), they encourage the kids to be themselves and I think that’s cool, the kids are oblivious to the concept of sexual identity or gender orientation though, they aren’t pushing them towards anything or making them identify themselves, just letting them learn as they go.

Kids aren’t blind to what’s going on around them but they should be allowed to be kids before being confronted with things like what preferred pronouns they want to be called or how they identify. I’ve read stories of parents taking pre-teens for gender transition drugs… I just don’t think kids should be making irreversible decisions at such a young age. (I find gender therapy just as disturbing, parents need to quit trying to force their kids to be a reflection of their personal politics, just let them figure it out).

As I’ve said multiple times this bill is far too vague, I get the idea behind it though (primarily that it’s political), it’s trying to prevent things from being introduced to impressionable kids that they can’t fully grasp yet.

That's what you don't understand. It's not "trying to prevent things from being introduced to impressionable kids that they can't fully grasp yet". That isn't happening.

Acknowledging that some families have 2 dads and some have 2 moms IS NOT introducing concepts children are unable to grasp...it's 2 people who love each other raising children together. That's all it is...that's all it's taught as...and that's all children see it as.

 

[TP2000]

Sex and sexuality aren't discussed in k-3...that's why this law isn't what so many people (including it's authors) are trying to say it is - laws regarding sex-ed and parental rights in school have been on the books for decades already.

Well, then why are people upset about it? I'm just really confused here, although to be honest I've only heard about this news briefly. It's not a big news item in Southern California, even over on the Disneyland board here.

So basically, sex and sexuality aren't discussed in pre-school through 3rd grade in Florida. Just like I imagine Florida schools also don't discuss personal finance, the Watergate scandal, or Driver Training in those lower grades either.

So the Florida legislature passed a law banning the discussion of topics in preschool to 3rd grade that aren't even being discussed or mentioned anyway? So then... what's the problem exactly? That Bob Chapek didn't declare open hostility to the Governor of Florida? Or that Chapek didn't choose a side quickly enough?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think 99% of us agree on that fact but there is a minority that are pushing adult concepts to kids at very young ages (someone mentioned a second grader earlier that uses the preferred pronouns they/them… how does a second grader even know what a preferred pronoun is?) and that scares the heck out of people on the other side.

I have a friend who allows his kids to dress however they want, they have a 10 year old boy and 8 and 6 year old girls, they all have long hair and half the time I can’t tell the 10 and 8 year old apart from a distance because they look alike and dress alike (whether skirts or Bermuda shorts or whatever else they feel comfortable in that day), they encourage the kids to be themselves and I think that’s cool, the kids are oblivious to the concept of sexual identity or gender orientation though, they aren’t pushing them towards anything or making them identify themselves, just letting them learn as they go.

Kids aren’t blind to what’s going on around them but they should be allowed to be kids before being confronted with things like what preferred pronouns they want to be called or how they identify. I’ve read stories of parents taking pre-teens for gender transition drugs… I just don’t think kids should be making irreversible decisions at such a young age. (I find gender therapy just as disturbing, parents need to quit trying to force their kids to be a reflection of their personal politics, just let them figure it out).

As I’ve said multiple times this bill is far too vague, I get the idea behind it though (primarily that it’s political), it’s trying to prevent things from being introduced to impressionable kids that they can’t fully grasp yet.

I agree with you 100%…but the reason why this should never have come is because it’s ambiguous to be exploited. Evil is not a theory…it’s a weapon to those inclined to strike.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, then why are people upset about it? I'm just really confused here, although to be honest I've only heard about this news briefly. It's not a big news item in Southern California, even over on the Disneyland board here.

So basically, sex and sexuality aren't discussed in pre-school through 3rd grade in Florida. Just like I imagine Florida schools also don't discuss personal finance, the Watergate scandal, or Driver Training in those lower grades either.

So the Florida legislature passed a law banning the discussion of topics in preschool to 3rd grade that aren't even being discussed or mentioned anyway? So then... what's the problem exactly? That Bob Chapek didn't declare open hostility to the Governor of Florida? Or that Chapek didn't choose a side quickly enough?

They’re are upset that the bar could move to 7th grade…or 9th…because of loopholes. Even cheap lawyers (and dumber school boards) can get there. Crappy legislation.

And then, it could end up leading to blood or worse.

This is perhaps the most vulnerable populations for self harm and severe mental distress. It really needs to be the judgement of professionals (who 99 times out of 100 will diffuse)…not be mandated by people who are capitalizing for attention on anger, rage and fear mongering.

 

[TP2000]

I just Googled it. The exact text of the bill is...

“classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.”

I'm still confused what the problem is. Why would 1st graders be discussing sexual orientation or gender identity to begin with? That just seems like a topic that is way too advanced for 6 year old kids. And the way that would play out in a classroom could quite easily become very creepy, in my opinion.

But again, I'm not up to speed on this whole thing, so I appreciate the chance to get up to speed on it.

I already have plenty of other issues with the parks to be angry with Bob Chapek about. Florida's Sex Ed legislation is not currently one of those for me.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Well, then why are people upset about it? I'm just really confused here, although to be honest I've only heard about this news briefly. It's not a big news item in Southern California, even over on the Disneyland board here.

So basically, sex and sexuality aren't discussed in pre-school through 3rd grade in Florida. Just like I imagine Florida schools also don't discuss personal finance, the Watergate scandal, or Driver Training in those lower grades either.

So the Florida legislature passed a law banning the discussion of topics in preschool to 3rd grade that aren't even being discussed or mentioned anyway? So then... what's the problem exactly? That Bob Chapek didn't declare open hostility to the Governor of Florida? Or that Chapek didn't choose a side quickly enough?

The law specifically targets LGBTQ+ issues and is purposely vague and allows for teachers to be the subject of lawsuits. It's a dog-whistle designed to be weaponized.

So...that "about me" project younger students participate in at the beginning of every school year? "Sorry, Johnny, but you have a dad and, um, someone else who lives with you who we can't talk about, so you can't participate".

The Disney company donated funds to every single sponsor of this bill while at the same time forcing Imagineering to either relocate to Florida or find a new job, and Chapek thought he could get away with "we'll re-evaluate our political donations" and lip service to CMs with no real action and no public opinion about the bill itself.

I posted a tweet with a video from the guy behind the bill...in which he openly admits that he thinks "gayness" is a spreadable condition and that that's why the bill was created.

 

[TP2000]

I know a gay couple, married men, in Rancho Mirage. They adopted two infant boys about a decade ago. I'm going to run this past them and see what they think when I head out to the desert next month for Easter. Perhaps it's a bigger issue and 2nd graders really are getting classwork about sex and gender and sexuality now??? Eek!

I've met the couple's two young boys, and even spent some time at Disneyland with them a few years ago. The concept of "Two dads" seems to be a non-issue for them. They're probably in about 5th or 6th grade now.

In my day, this type of thing just wasn't discussed. And certainly not in the 2nd grade. I'm not quite sure what Bob Chapek could have done about it, even if his email was tone deaf since he's fairly clueless on most stuff anyway. Some things seem inherently bigger than a theme park company.

I'm also interested how Communist China seems to get a complete pass here. Disney has two theme park resorts in that country with tens of thousands of CM's employed there now, and Chinese laws and social norms are far more repressive than Florida. Anyone want to Tweet about that? Or just focus on Tallahassee?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney fans…all of us…have been cowards about “the company” getting into bed full bore (don’t read this prior to 4th grade) with the worlds worst government.

Because it’s about “money” and “stuff”

So you’re point about China is acknowledged. We turn a blind eye and that is wrong. End foreign affairs statement.

 

[Hakunamatata]

It’s a terrible subject…that is 100% relevant fo Disney, it’s employees, it’s parks, and ultimately it’s customers.

It sucks…but the world is not as simple as you seem to believe.

The world is not a simple place and my comment does not imply that. We had an entire political sub forum shuttered and there are frequent reminders around not delving into political discussion. Im not certain why the discussion which is political by nature is continuing

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I know a gay couple, married men, in Rancho Mirage. They adopted two infant boys about a decade ago. I'm going to run this past them and see what they think when I head out to the desert next month for Easter. Perhaps it's a bigger issue and 2nd graders really are getting classwork about sex and gender and sexuality now??? Eek!

I've met the couple's two young boys, and even spent some time at Disneyland with them a few years ago. The concept of "Two dads" seems to be a non-issue for them. They're probably in about 5th or 6th grade now.

In my day, this type of thing just wasn't discussed. And certainly not in the 2nd grade. I'm not quite sure what Bob Chapek could have done about it, even if his email was tone deaf since he's fairly clueless on most stuff anyway. Some things seem inherently bigger than a theme park company.

I'm also interested how Communist China seems to get a complete pass here. Disney has two theme park resorts in that country with tens of thousands of CM's employed there now, and Chinese laws and social norms are far more repressive than Florida. Anyone want to Tweet about that? Or just focus on Tallahassee?

They aren't getting classwork about sex and gender. Not at all. My boys are 11 and 15. It's literally "Some families have a mom and a dad, some have 1 mom or 1 dad, some have 2 moms and 2 dads, and some kids live with grandparents or aunts and uncles". That's as far as it goes...it's literally just talking about families and who loves the children in question.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The world is not a simple place and my comment does not imply that. We had an entire political sub forum shuttered and there are frequent reminders around not delving into political discussion. Im not certain why the discussion which is political by nature is continuing

This is tied directly to where Disney has the largest single site private employee number in the United States.

I think this is a way of saying “don’t ruin my Disney “
…but Disney is an incredibly large and powerful company that has wrapped its self around the “morality” of the western world (and eastern…as was noted just above) for about 100 years.

This is not out of bounds when you look at the scenario. But it doesn’t have to be shoved down anyone’s throats anyway. This Sucks…and I’m not blaming Disney for that. But it’s also everywhere and we are adults.

 

[TP2000]

Yup, I just double checked.

Gay marriage is still not legal in Communist China. Chinese labor laws have no mention of sexuality or gender identity in anti-discrimination standards, and termination of LGBT people is legal in China. It is still illegal for gay couples to adopt children in China. China also currently forbids foreign homosexuals from adopting children from China and moving them to their home country.

China's government still bans the appearance of homosexuality in movies, TV and media. Recently, it has expanded that dictate to ban "effeminate males" and "sissy men" in media, even if they are not explicitly homosexual.

China Tells Effeminate Male Celebrities to Man Up

Beijing's latest crackdown on the entertainment industry has some male performers wiping off their makeup and posing shirtless in muscled-up gym selfies

www.voanews.com

Just last year a 71 year old Lesbian woman in China tried to sue her Lesbian partner of 50 years for stealing money from her bank account, but the claim was denied by the Chinese court because their decades long Lesbian partnership was not recognized and Lesbian marriage is illegal.

There are approximately 15,000 Cast Members in China currently working at Disney's theme parks, hotels, stores, and media offices in mainland China. Apparently they all are straight.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I hope Disney does better with this than they have so far…and I have NO idea what that would be?

Not good so far.

I’m out.

 

[TP2000]

I hope Disney does better with this than they have so far…and I have NO idea what that would be?

Not good so far.

I’m out.

It seems messy. And just weird. I still can't get over 2nd graders talking about sexuality.

This appears to be a clear case of Disney being in bed with the Devil while a prissy Sunday School teacher sits at the end of the bed. Communist China is the Devil, and Governor DeSantis is the prissy Sunday School teacher.

But instead of criticizing and calling out Disney for spooning in bed with the Devil himself, some folks are more upset that there's a prissy Sunday School teacher sitting at the end of the bed.

So, like you, I'm out.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think 99% of us agree on that fact but there is a minority that are pushing adult concepts to kids at very young ages (someone mentioned a second grader earlier that uses the preferred pronouns they/them… how does a second grader even know what a preferred pronoun is?) and that scares the heck out of people on the other side.

i was the one who mentioned that. How does a second grader know? We live in a very diverse area. People here put their preferred pronouns in their email signatures, Twitter handles, etc. perhaps they have a family member or family friend who uses different pronouns. It’s not taught in our schools, so it’s not from school.

that said, I also don’t see why it would be scary for kids that age to *be aware of* the fact that some people use they/them. (Please note I am separating this from the issue of the child using those pronouns themselves for a reason). Children are taught appropriate use of pronouns, grammatically speaking, as part of language arts in grade 2 in our state. Why should this not be simply considered grammar knowledge as we move forward? We teach children how to appropriately, respectfully addressing others in writing and in speech at this age, and preferred pronouns are now part of respectfully addressing others. while it is, yes, different than my childhood, I certainly don’t agree that the concept of pronouns is scary.

I have a friend who allows his kids to dress however they want, they have a 10 year old boy and 8 and 6 year old girls, they all have long hair and half the time I can’t tell the 10 and 8 year old apart from a distance because they look alike and dress alike (whether skirts or Bermuda shorts or whatever else they feel comfortable in that day), they encourage the kids to be themselves and I think that’s cool, the kids are oblivious to the concept of sexual identity or gender orientation though, they aren’t pushing them towards anything or making them identify themselves, just letting them learn as they go.

Kids aren’t blind to what’s going on around them but they should be allowed to be kids before being confronted with things like what preferred pronouns they want to be called or how they identify.

The parents of the child I referenced are following their childs lead. They haven’t pushed the child towards anything. They weren’t “confronted” with demands of how they identify, the child isn’t thinking about sexuality, just sharing what they think and feel with their parents and their parents are simply listening without judgment.

I’ve read stories of parents taking pre-teens for gender transition drugs… I just don’t think kids should be making irreversible decisions at such a young age. (I find gender therapy just as disturbing, parents need to quit trying to force their kids to be a reflection of their personal politics, just let them figure it out).

i don’t think it’s remotely appropriate to put the idea of preferred pronouns next to taking gender transition drugs like this. Preferred pronouns aren’t irreversible.

As I’ve said multiple times this bill is far too vague, I get the idea behind it though (primarily that it’s political), it’s trying to prevent things from being introduced to impressionable kids that they can’t fully grasp yet.

I know you agree this bill is too vague. I just can’t get on board with a small vocal minority determining *access* for everyone. Opt out protocols have existed for many years and are sufficient for people to opt out of their child being exposed to certain subjects without banning access to it for everyone. If a child has a gender non-conforming parent, they are growing up from birth knowing about preferred pronouns and different family makeups. Those things specifically should not be treated as scary concepts, and those children have a right to see representation of their families in their classrooms In the same way all other families are represented.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

It seems messy. And just weird. I still can't get over 2nd graders talking about sexuality.

Please stop. 2nd graders ARE NOT talking about sexuality.