Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[Kman101]

If I knew they could blend the two well, I'd be optimistic. Alas, we have actual evidence they are unable to do so. It has to be watered down. And I don't hate everything. I'm looking forward to other ventures at WDW, specifically DHS which used to be my least favorite park but has now become third. It just infuriates me seeing them so clueless about Epcot. My problem is I cannot detach myself from the fact its "just" a theme park and not really impacting my life in any way, shape, or form. But alas, that is how I approach all my passions

I agree. I'm no Epcot expert by any means. I was young in it's glory days and it's actually not a park I have overt nostalgia for just based on how little I was taken there. I remember a lot, and a lot I don't. I have done my research on the park and I am a huge fan of what it was. And I wish it could be like that again. I don't have a sentimental attachment to Horizons but I wish it were still there (I do actually remember some of it and especially the omnimover vehicle). Same for WOM. They left an impact and impression. But kids these days want to see their favorite characters. I'm not saying that's right, just the reality. I wish they were like me and cared about the core of Epcot. But they don't. And I can't keep berating anyone to do so.

I do understand how you approach things and I think that's great. I try as well. I do love these parks and I love theme park design. I just think some treat it as a slight to them when someone doesn't get it, but if Disney can't even tell us "what an Epcot is" how can new guests identify it?

And yes, I've said so many times they've done a poor job blending the two. I wish it weren't so poorly done. I also think there's ways they can. But I get it's not for everyone. I'm trying to go for best case here, but as you've said, they've failed to give us that.

As I've told others, just because it's new and flashy and exciting doesn't mean it's actually good or well done. And just because something's old, doesn't mean it's "bad" and has to be gutted.

 

[Mike730]

You often overreact, berate .... you're a classic millenial. Dismissive of those who disagree as if they don't matter.

Do not group me with this disrespectful millenial. By grouping us together you are no better.

The generationism is tired. Let’s agree to leave it at the door.

 

[Kman101]

Do not group me with this disrespectful jerk. By grouping us together you are no better.

The generationism is tired. Let’s agree to leave it at the door.

I am better than that. I truly do apologize (and I'm apologizing because I wouldn't want that done to me "you're young and stupid" I've gotten that many times, very little interest in what I actually know because of my age). To be fair, I'm 32, and considered a millenial. I'm far from it. As someone who hates the same thing, I shouldn't have gone that route. I did have a bit of an overreaction and I can admit to it lol

 

[wdisney9000]

So is being against something before it’s ever built
I mean guy said let’s wait and see and he got totally ripped for it (not by you of course)

I did not mean to imply I am "against" anything before its built. I just will not allow myself to get excited and hope for anything on the level of detail and fluidity that the Imagineers of old created or what the company allowed them to create.

A perfect example is Frozen Ever After. It is not a bad ride, but it feels more like you simply float past one set piece to another. The scene with Anna, Kristoff and Sven is completely blacked out on the left side. Maelstrom truly felt like a journey through ancient Norway and the narration added a wonderful element to the story. For cramming Frozen into the existing space of the Maelstrom building, they really shortchanged not only the most profitable animated film ever, but all the fans who defended the decision and said, "lets wait and see".

 

[mikejs78]

If I knew they could blend the two well, I'd be optimistic. Alas, we have actual evidence they are unable to do so. It has to be watered down. And I don't hate everything. I'm looking forward to other ventures at WDW, specifically DHS which used to be my least favorite park but has now become third. It just infuriates me seeing them so clueless about Epcot. My problem is I cannot detach myself from the fact its "just" a theme park and not really impacting my life in any way, shape, or form. But alas, that is how I approach all my passions

We are in a lot of agreement here, but there is evidence they can blend the two well. It's Tough to Be a Bug, for example, is a great use of IP to teach about insects in AK. Pandora is well themed to a message of conservation and harmony with nature, even given the scifi setting. Even in Epcot Turtle Talk actually does a decent job of blending an IP with an educational component. So they can do it. It's just that often they are lazy (Nemo) or trying to capitalize on a blockbuster (Frozen).

The downfall of Epcot really started in the mid-90s under Eisner. In the second half of the 90s they replaced UoE with an IP based attraction, closed Horizons and WoM, and gutted Imagination. Then they stopped the updates. The assumption from day one was that each pavillion would be refreshed once a decade. Once the sponsorship model fell apart, that whole business model fell apart. And thus we have a stagnated park.

At least now they recognize that their is a problem. We may not like their solution, but it's really the first time they've really admitted that a fix is needed.

 

[Disney4family]

Since we’re all getting on so well, I believe wishing you a Happy Thanksgiving is in order.

Yes!!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Then why did Epcot have a higher attendance in the 80s than now?

What role did the existence of other Disney parks and other non-Disney parks play in siphoning off Epcot attendance?

(I honestly don't know... don't have the time to research it. )

 

[WDWDad2907]

I know everyone wants to tie Inside Out to Imagination but it has nothing to do with imagination.

I'm not sure I follow. A main premise of the movie is how imagination shapes/impacts emotions

 

[CinematicFusion]

As much as I enjoyed Epcot in 1982-1984 when I went as a kid, there were a few things I didn’t like.
My observations only.
1. There were no thrills. All dark rides and while all of them were cool, with the exception of Wonders of Life, the park was missing something exciting and thrilling. Maelstrom didn’t arrive until 1988
2. There was 0 characters from Disney at the park and as a kid I didn’t like that. I enjoyed Dreamfinder in the ride but thought he was weird as a walking character in the park. (Only my opinion)
3. Future world as cool as it was felt sterile and cold to me with the exception of Imagination and Spaceship earth. That still impresses me.
4. World showcase from an emotional standpoint still feels as fresh as it did when it opened in 1982. Still enjoy it.

So I remember everyone calling for thrill rides in Epcot because they had the space to build in future world. Instead, they demolished two cool dark rides in Horizons and World Of Motion and for me Epcot has slowly gone down hill since. Nothing against test track and mission space, Honestly I have no attachments to those rides and if they blew up tomorrow I wouldn’t care but I wish they would have built those rides next to world of motion and horizons but oh well.

 

[Kman101]

I'm not sure I follow. A main premise of the movie is how imagination shapes/impacts emotions

I guess we took the movie differently. They're at the core, different concepts. Sure, you could very much say they're alike, but Inside Out has more in common with Cranium Command than it does with Journey into Imagination. They just aren't the same thing IMHO.

 

[Rodan75]

What role did the existence of other Disney parks and other non-Disney parks play in siphoning off Epcot attendance?

(I honestly don't know... don't have the time to research it. )

Epcot was also a huge field trip destination for local schools in the late 80’s /early 90’s ( I think we went twice a year) and after the field trips during the weeks they had those after 4pm passes they were practically giving away.

I don’t know how many field trips still go to Epcot.

I know some folks actually know the actual inside details from that timeframe, but many seem to describe them as the golden age for Epcot’s success, but I seem to remember them as Disney desperately trying to make Epcot work as successful park. And much of that created a loyal clientele, but that was created by discounting and eventually the festivals.

I’m saying that as someone who treasured those field trips and loved Future World and was very inspired by it. But I also remember the local narrative that Epcot was never as successful as Disney wanted.

 

[PorterRedkey]

We are in a lot of agreement here, but there is evidence they can blend the two well. It's Tough to Be a Bug, for example, is a great use of IP to teach about insects in AK. Pandora is well themed to a message of conservation and harmony with nature, even given the scifi setting. Even in Epcot Turtle Talk actually does a decent job of blending an IP with an educational component. So they can do it. It's just that often they are lazy (Nemo) or trying to capitalize on a blockbuster (Frozen).

The downfall of Epcot really started in the mid-90s under Eisner. In the second half of the 90s they replaced UoE with an IP based attraction, closed Horizons and WoM, and gutted Imagination. Then they stopped the updates. The assumption from day one was that each pavillion would be refreshed once a decade. Once the sponsorship model fell apart, that whole business model fell apart. And thus we have a stagnated park.

At least now they recognize that their is a problem. We may not like their solution, but it's really the first time they've really admitted that a fix is needed.

Admitting the problem is the first step.

IMHO you can break of the Eisner era as Pre Frank Wells death and post Frank Wells death. Wells was to Eisner what Roy was to Walt.

Without fresh leadership, Epcot will just be a hodgepodge of attraction without a cohesive theme fit the park as a whole.

 

[jt04]

Admitting the problem is the first step.

IMHO you can break of the Eisner era as Pre Frank Wells death and post Frank Wells death. Wells was to Eisner what Roy was to Walt.

Without fresh leadership, Epcot will just be a hodgepodge of attraction without a cohesive theme fit the park as a whole.

You know what they say about extraterrestrials, you can't reveal the truth until the people are ready. Think of plans for Epcot the same way.

The truth is out there.

 

[PorterRedkey]

What role did the existence of other Disney parks and other non-Disney parks play in siphoning off Epcot attendance?

(I honestly don't know... don't have the time to research it. )

You do make a good point, it must of have siphoned off some guests. However my theory is that with proper care, upkeep and timly refurbs, Epcot would have continued to shine as a park.

I love Omni movers, but I agree that the park lack the variety it needed. Adding more thrilling attractions is fine, but replacing classic rides with more thrilling, shorter versions, just made Epcot lose it “soul”. Obviously, they haven’t learned a thing (see Gaurdians of Energy).

Why on Earth has the latest version of Journey been around longer than the original? It’s an attraction that TDO knows scores badly with guests. So why let the pavilion struggle? To me it seems this is because they stopped caring about Epcot long ago. At least it is getting some attention now, even if many (including myself) don’t like the direction it’s heading.

 

[MisterPenguin]

However my theory is that with proper care, upkeep and timly refurbs, Epcot would have continued to shine as a park.

It could shine all it wants, but, if we're talking whether the shine brings in guests, we should consider the competition, and what guests might prefer over what Epcot offered, no?

I could offer the shiniest apples in the world, but if everyone preferred oranges, I'd have no sales.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Then why did Epcot have a higher attendance in the 80s than now? The reason for the fall in attendance IMHO is the dismantling of the classic attractions, cheap overlays, lack of ride reburbishments, loss of a cohesive theme, and not added a new pavilion for over 25 years.

I wish that ticket buying public won. Disney used to be about exceeding a guests expectations in their attractions they now it seem they just do the bare minimum (SW:GE being the exception).

Its not what the guests want, it is the cheapest, play-it-safe, thing Disney can put together (see MnGs, cloned rides and festivals) in order to spark an attendance bump.

That’s not very innovative to me, unlike Epcot’s early years.

Why was attendance higher then compared to now? It was a new park. Disney didn’t update the park. Now they are investing with new, exciting based IP to drive attendance to new heights that Epcot has never seen in its history.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

If anyone could have made an idea like E.P.C.O.T. succeed, it would have been Walt Disney.

 

[WDWDad2907]

I guess we took the movie differently. They're at the core, different concepts. Sure, you could very much say they're alike, but Inside Out has more in common with Cranium Command than it does with Journey into Imagination. They just aren't the same thing IMHO.

I agree that it may have more in common with cranium command, but I think imagination is a main underlying theme of the movie (including an entire subplot of an imaginary character from her childhood that helps guide her emotions as she struggles to understand/define them) - I was more so responding to your original post, which indicated they had no correlation what so ever. While not the main theme, its definitely there, which I would think gives them an easy opportunity to make a link with the pavilion if they wanted to

 

[DinoInstitute]

I guess we took the movie differently. They're at the core, different concepts. Sure, you could very much say they're alike, but Inside Out has more in common with Cranium Command than it does with Journey into Imagination. They just aren't the same thing IMHO.

I mean, I think Cranium Command itself has a lot to do with Imagination. I suppose it depends on how you define the pavilion. If the Imagination pavilion is to be more generic and encompass all of how the mind works, which is kind of how I’ve always seen it, Inside Out works perfectly.

 

[jt04]

I mean, I think Cranium Command itself has a lot to do with Imagination. I suppose it depends on how you define the pavilion. If the Imagination pavilion is to be more generic and encompass all of how the mind works, which is kind of how I’ve always seen it, Inside Out works perfectly.

And they still have the theater for that Dragon IP.

And Imageworks for something else.

My hope is that they use the entire track again. Easily could be one of the best pavilions.