Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[marni1971]

Yet, it is deemed awful because it isn't the dead pavilion that it had become anymore..

No, it is deemed awful due to an unsuitable IP being shoehorned in where it doesn't belong.

No one of sane mind would say Maelstrom was not dated. Many would argue it should have gotten the planned refresh and update instead of Frozenstrom. That's the issue.

 

[Goofyernmost]

No, it is deemed awful due to an unsuitable IP being shoehorned in where it doesn't belong.

No one of sane mind would say Maelstrom was not dated. Many would argue it should have gotten the planned refresh and update instead of Frozenstrom. That's the issue.

I know you don't agree but Maelstrom was a snooze from the day it opened. The only message it ever sent was Norway is a gloomy place were Viking's left to find more enjoyable worlds. It sucked, retelling that story with brighter lights would not change anything or make anyone care. Even if the connection between Norway and Frozen is weak it still exists to those that care to see it and it brought life to a "on it's last legs" pavilion. In affect, it may just have saved the remains of a dying park that more recently existed on a booze based mission alone. To go all British on you... The King is dead, Long live the King!

 

[marni1971]

I know you don't agree but Maelstrom was a snooze from the day it opened.

You're right. I don't. It wasn't.

"Retelling the story with brighter lights“ is also a rather simplistic and dare I say naive description of an attraction overhaul.

Yes, it seems to have brought more people into a dying park. That was the intention. And also the quick, cheap and lazy band aid fix instead of doing it properly. As has been discussed time and time and time again.

 

[Otterhead]

You're right. I don't. It wasn't.

"Retelling the story with brighter lights“ is also a rather simplistic and dare I say naive description of an attraction overhaul.

Yes, it seems to have brought more people into a dying park. That was the intention. And also the quick, cheap and lazy band aid fix instead of doing it properly. As has been discussed time and time and time again.

While I loved Maelstrom and would never think of it as a 'snooze' --- I remember the long lines when it opened and its continued popularity -- if the new Frozen ride had been a cheap, below-par ride, it'd be easier to knock it. But those are easily some of the best AAs I've seen. I wish it'd been a better-integrated story, maybe somehow connecting to the land the ride's sitting in beyond "hey, there's snow", but as a Frozen ride goes, its quality is surprisingly high.

 

[marni1971]

While I loved Maelstrom and would never think of it as a 'snooze' --- I remember the long lines when it opened and its continued popularity -- if the new Frozen ride had been a cheap, below-par ride, it'd be easier to knock it. But those are easily some of the best AAs I've seen. I wish it'd been a better-integrated story, maybe somehow connecting to the land the ride's sitting in beyond "hey, there's snow", but as a Frozen ride goes, its quality is surprisingly high.

The animatronic motion is superb. The sets however are adequate at best. The "story" laughable.

Wait for Tokyo. Eventually.

 

[flynnibus]

The ride is still the very definition of a re-skin. The bones of the attraction didn't change at all. They still use the exact same boats for crying out loud.

No, simply the ride system was reused. The show scenes are all different, not just reskinned. The plot, the figures, the queue, all completely gutted and redone. Even the ride path was tweaked. A reskin would repurpose the existing show elements and scenes... Frozen did none of that.

 

[flynnibus]

While I loved Maelstrom and would never think of it as a 'snooze' --- I remember the long lines when it opened and its continued popularity

Being a ride in a ride desert will do that Maelstrom was my first real letdown at WDW... the promotion on that ride was so off.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

The animatronic motion is superb. The sets however are adequate at best. The "story" laughable.

Wait for Tokyo. Eventually.

Why oh why are they going with FEA for Hong Kong?

 

[HauntedPirate]

The animatronic motion is superb. The sets however are adequate at best. The "story" laughable.

Wait for Tokyo. Eventually.

Apparently band-aid fixes are considered "a massive improvement" by some.

Take off the Disney-branded MAGICAL!!! glasses and look at what FEA actually is - an attempt by TDO to get something Frozen-based into an attraction. It wasn't well-thought out, it wasn't well-planned, it was a complete and total rush-job by TDO so they could make money off of Frozen, too. And that's the problem with most of what TDO has done over the past 20 years - Too many short-sighted rush-jobs and not enough well-thought out plans.

And @Goofyernmost, you really want to bring up the original Imagination ride and Horizons? They were 100x more imaginative and in-line with Disney excellence than what replaced them. I don't have a problem with changes at theme parks. What I have a problem with is changes done just for the sake of change. Had Maelstrom run its course? Undoubtedly. Did they have to replace it with something "Frozen"-themed? Not really, but it's acceptable for the pavilion. But instead of doing something new and well-thought out and well-planned, TDO gave us FEA instead, an IP shoe-horned and shoved into an existing attraction with the same ride system and mostly the same track. An attraction whose sole purpose, one could argue, is to keep people busy for hours standing in lines (Surely you don't think that TDO didn't anticipate huge crowds for a "Frozen" attraction, do you?) so they don't realize how bad the rest of the park has become. And if people spend money on souvenirs and movie merchandise after the ride, well that's just the icing on the proverbial cake.

 

[RoysCabin]

I've always thought that the biggest thing that hurt Maelstrom was its initial advertising that made it seem like "EPCOT Center's first thrill ride", when it was never meant to be more than a D-ticket...a D-ticket I loved, granted, but still, it created expectations that the ride couldn't meet. I remember going on during extra hours in 2012 with some friends; we had almost all been on the ride before then in years past, but the long wait we had that night left them feeling a bit underwhelmed with the ride. And why not? As Martin says, everybody, even us fans of the ride, would agree that it was dated and needed some love, plus much like with The Living Seas they stopped having the film portion be an integrated part of the attraction, and instead let guests dash right through the room and to the exit without a second thought. That really ate into the overall experience, which was meant to include the ride itself, the quiet nighttime Norwegian village you exit into, and then Spirit of Norway; taken together, it was a really nice experience; never the E-ticket they originally hyped it to be, but a very complete and satisfying one that, as of the '00s and '10s, was really in need of some TLC to make it live again.

Honestly, I think a lot of these arguments keep devolving into strawman territory. I consider myself a mega-EPCOT Center fan, but I'd be among the first to say that if Horizons were still around today and stood unaltered that it'd be in dire, dire need of a refresh to make it relevant in the 2010s. The hang up, however, would be the way that a refresh would be done; I want a relevant Horizons, but I'd still want it to be Horizons deep down at its core, not an attraction that defaults to either corporate synergy or quick-fix band aids that don't have much of a shelf life.

To reiterate a point, I can't help but think that if Disney had taken over Imagination and Horizons along with Spaceship Earth, and kept them decently updated and largely true to their original spirit (e.g. the way they handle the Orlando Haunted Mansion, where people may like or dislike the occasional changes but still can experience the heart of the attraction), then even the most diehard old school EPCOT Center fan would likely be much more forgiving of a lot of the lesser decisions they've made in the park over the years.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Take off the Disney-branded MAGICAL!!! glasses...

An excellent and air-tight argument... the people you disagree with do so because they're self-deluded. That's the only reason why someone wouldn't agree with you!! Perfect!!!

 

[RobidaFlats]

what happened to giving us what we didn't know we wanted

Bingo. That used to be a common thread through a lot of what Disney developed. Disneyland wasn't developed because of focus group feedback.

 

[aladdin2007]

I know you don't agree but Maelstrom was a snooze from the day it opened. The only message it ever sent was Norway is a gloomy place were Viking's left to find more enjoyable worlds. It sucked, retelling that story with brighter lights would not change anything or make anyone care. Even if the connection between Norway and Frozen is weak it still exists to those that care to see it and it brought life to a "on it's last legs" pavilion. In affect, it may just have saved the remains of a dying park that more recently existed on a booze based mission alone. To go all British on you... The King is dead, Long live the King!

for the record the pavilion was not on its last legs and never has been, its always been popular even though its ride and film needed updating. So many other spots at Epcot qualify for that last legs title that are still being ignored. It was also one of the only pavilions to truly ever have one of "everything".... Ride, movie, exhibit, restaurant, bakery, shop, and playground (at one time).and also at one time a second different film was offered upstairs as part of a free tour.....Its just sad the new content has nothing to do with Norway except the new exteriors next door. But at least there were certain individuals who saw the importance of keeping what was left and added (architecturally anyway) as the Norway pavilion and retaining aspects and Norwegian cast. It could have gone a very different route.

 

[RobidaFlats]

No, simply the ride system was reused. The show scenes are all different, not just reskinned. The plot, the figures, the queue, all completely gutted and redone. Even the ride path was tweaked. A reskin would repurpose the existing show elements and scenes... Frozen did none of that.

Ok, new skin and a new hairstyle.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Apparently band-aid fixes are considered "a massive improvement" by some.

Take off the Disney-branded MAGICAL!!! glasses and look at what FEA actually is - an attempt by TDO to get something Frozen-based into an attraction. It wasn't well-thought out, it wasn't well-planned, it was a complete and total rush-job by TDO so they could make money off of Frozen, too. And that's the problem with most of what TDO has done over the past 20 years - Too many short-sighted rush-jobs and not enough well-thought out plans.

And @Goofyernmost, you really want to bring up the original Imagination ride and Horizons? They were 100x more imaginative and in-line with Disney excellence than what replaced them. I don't have a problem with changes at theme parks. What I have a problem with is changes done just for the sake of change. Had Maelstrom run its course? Undoubtedly. Did they have to replace it with something "Frozen"-themed? Not really, but it's acceptable for the pavilion. But instead of doing something new and well-thought out and well-planned, TDO gave us FEA instead, an IP shoe-horned and shoved into an existing attraction with the same ride system and mostly the same track. An attraction whose sole purpose, one could argue, is to keep people busy for hours standing in lines (Surely you don't think that TDO didn't anticipate huge crowds for a "Frozen" attraction, do you?) so they don't realize how bad the rest of the park has become. And if people spend money on souvenirs and movie merchandise after the ride, well that's just the icing on the proverbial cake.

GREAT post! It's right on the money in so many ways!

 

[HauntedPirate]

An excellent and air-tight argument... the people you disagree with do so because they're self-deluded. That's the only reason why someone wouldn't agree with you!! Perfect!!!

Oh, what a great pixie duster comeback to 7 words of a post (that apparently hit home)... Please, tell me where I can go to get a massive injection of pixie dust so I can consider everything Disney does to be the greatest and bestest and most MAGICAL!!! things ever.

 

[peter11435]

Oh, what a great pixie duster comeback to 7 words of a post (that apparently hit home)... Please, tell me where I can go to get a massive injection of pixie dust so I can consider everything Disney does to be the greatest and bestest and most MAGICAL!!! things ever.

It would be nice if people could have conversations without being rude and having to resort to name calling.

 

[jt04]

Frozen will stand the test of time. It is not a cheap overlay and fits the pavilions aesthetics. I fully admit that theming wise it was a close call but FLE 2.0 made it necessary.

Some possible trial balloons for Zootopia going on? While I have no great affection for the franchise, apparently some do. Much rather see it in Future World than Tomorrowland. Assuming Future World is getting a new name.

Zootopia?

 

[Luxe]

And that would be an normal reaction for everyone! After one eliminates the element of surprise and newness, it never has the same appeal. That is exactly what happened to those other "saintly" rides like Imagination and Horizons. First time, Wow! Second time, Oh,there's something I didn't notice before but otherwise, been there done that! Third time, Been there done that! Multiple times after that... Let's skip that one and see if something is new elsewhere! Hence, along with other reasons, those no longer exist no matter what the wow factor was when it first opened.

I remember a few years back, due to group FP's and luck. I had the opportunity to ride Soarin (one of my favorite attractions) four times in a row. Not only did I miss out on seeing other things because of that one time obsession, I no longer cared to see it again for at least three years. Human nature. That is the very reason why new attractions are or should be built on a regular basis. Nostalgia is only one incentive, there has to be new stimuli, changes to keep the interest up. I hadn't been in Norway for years. I had seen it all numerous times, the same with a lot of World Showcase. Some of the attractions I really enjoy. Attractions like the American Adventure, France, Oh, Canada and even to a lesser degree the boat ride in Mexico still have an interest for me. Maelstrom did not. Nothing happened to Norway other then a massive improvement and more exposure to Norway proper then has happened in years. Yet, it is deemed awful because it isn't the dead pavilion that it had become anymore. Sorry, I see it as a massive improvement and still love the fact that I got to experience the old EPCOT. Nothing in my life is the same as it was 30+ years ago. That is life. Looking backwards is one way to experience life. Looking forward is another.

The same people will ride the classics 5 times in a row and enjoy it just as much as the last. You must have missed where I said they rode it 3 times over the course of a week. Enough time to cleanse the palette and be ready to try it again. My point was that it has no staying power. It is a shallow experience that leaves much to be desired. Unlike a high quality dark ride such as the Haunted Mansion that retains its entertainment value for decades.

 

[Jones14]

Not really.

They're thinking about inserting some imagery in Gran Fiestas projection system.

So I take this to mean that the Coco overlay is going to happen, but will be incredibly unsubstantial and will offer almost nothing that is truly new (in other words, swap out the screens, call it a day). Am I on the mark here?