Boarding Groups are confusing

[Shouldigo12]

No, that is not what I’m proposing. Think of just 32 people in the park. And imagine Disney has 8 boarding groups. This implies in my example, each boarding group consists of 4 people.

The 8th person would get the 8th BG. And the 9th would get BG number 1. What? Doesn’t seem fair.

In my system, imagine there are 2 BGs in a time neighborhood (for a total of 4 neighborhoods). The first 8 guests would get BG 1 or 2. If I’m there early, I get an early BG. The 9th guest would get BG 3. Much fairer. You get a boarding group time much closer to the time you arrived.

Alright, I'm not understanding how this is different from what we have currently. The first to register are the first to get a BG. The only reason people who get there early get late BGs is because there's a lot of people registering at once; some people are just going to have a later group. I get that's it's not fair for someone who's been waiting an hour to have a later group than someone who waltzed up five minutes ago, but short of taking numbers deli style I can't think of a way to make everyone register in order of arrival on their phones.

 

[Djsfantasi]

Alright, I'm not understanding how this is different from what we have currently. The first to register are the first to get a BG. The only reason people who get there early get late BGs is because there's a lot of people registering at once; some people are just going to have a later group. I get that's it's not fair for someone who's been waiting an hour to have a later group than someone who waltzed up five minutes ago, but short of taking numbers deli style I can't think of a way to make everyone register in order of arrival on their phones.

Exactly! For the most part it is almost the same and if only one neighborhood is defined, it’s exactly the same. But in the existing system, I could get there at 7am and be placed in a boarding group at 9pm.

Consider the next case where there are two neighborhoods. Morning and afternoon. The morning neighborhoods are all before 12pm. I arrive at 7am and the probability is much greater that my BG is in the morning. Of course, if my group request can’t fit Into any morning BGs, then I get wherever I can fit in.

And that’s NOT the reason early risers get late boarding passes. Disney doesn’t consider the time when assigning a BG. It’s all done with a round robin scheduler.

Neighborhoods solve that problem by localizing requests to the origin time. That’s all.

 

[nickys]

And that’s NOT the reason early risers get late boarding passes. Disney doesn’t consider the time when assigning a BG. It’s all done with a round robin scheduler.

1) What is a round robin scheduler?

2) How do you know they use one?

I still don’t understand what your system is, other than a simple first-come, first-served system But something tells me that if I can understand what a round robin scheduler does, maybe that would help me understand your system. Simply because your suggestion must be coming from somewhere, but I think you’re the only one that understands where.

So
3) Is your system a first-come, first-served system? First one in gets earliest slot.
4) How would your system confirm who was there first?

 

[Djsfantasi]

a round robin scheduled serializes requests and assigns then into resources using a round-robin approach. Google round robin. But simply, let’s imagine several buckets numbered 1 to whatever. And many requests. Each request gets put into a bucket. The first request goes into bucket 1. The next into bucket 2. And so on until a request is put into the last bucket. Then it starts putting requests into bucket 1, bucket 2, etc.

That way, there is a poor unfortunate group of soul who gets put into the last bucket even though theyre one of the first groups to try to get a BG.

My proposal doesn’t change the underlying process dramatically. It just tries to place earlier requests into earlier groups first, whenever possible. If there are 100 groups, instead of round robin scheduling all requests over all BGs, it first tries a bunch of BGs early, before going to a later group. I.e., early risers would first be assigned to a bunch of the earlier BGs.

The remainder of the process remains unchanged.

 

[Dad 2 M & M]

a round robin scheduled serializes requests and assigns then into resources using a round-robin approach. Google round robin. But simply, let’s imagine several buckets numbered 1 to whatever. And many requests. Each request gets put into a bucket. The first request goes into bucket 1. The next into bucket 2. And so on until a request is put into the last bucket. Then it starts putting requests into bucket 1, bucket 2, etc.

That way, there is a poor unfortunate group of soul who gets put into the last bucket even though theyre one of the first groups to try to get a BG.

My proposal doesn’t change the underlying process dramatically. It just tries to place earlier requests into earlier groups first, whenever possible. If there are 100 groups, instead of round robin scheduling all requests over all BGs, it first tries a bunch of BGs early, before going to a later group. I.e., early risers would first be assigned to a bunch of the earlier BGs.

The remainder of the process remains unchanged.

The issue with your proposal is the requests......the "requests" at Park opening would fill all available "buckets".

Requests = People trying to get/join BG
Buckets = Capacity of ride

Requests>Buckets

I appreciate the fairness thought for those people who arrive early to receive an early BG, but those same people have filled the entire BG capacity within 1 hour of Park opening.......and thus the last people to be fortunate enough to get in a BG (again, within an hour of park opening) , end up riding in the evening.

 

[Djsfantasi]

The issue with your proposal is the requests......the "requests" at Park opening would fill all available "buckets".

Requests = People trying to get/join BG
Buckets = Capacity of ride

Requests>Buckets

I appreciate the fairness thought for those people who arrive early to receive an early BG, but those same people have filled the entire BG capacity within 1 hour of Park opening.......and thus the last people to be fortunate enough to get in a BG (again, within an hour of park opening) , end up riding in the evening.

How are requests handled any differently than now, that would cause the problem you describe? It’s the same system as is used now with a modification to the BG assignment. Let’s say there are 99 BGs. I’m saying fill BG 1 through BG 10 first. This, if you’re early and within the number of people * boarding groups/ neighborhoods, you’ll get a BG from groups 1-10. Today when I arrive and people are mashing their phone, it is as likely (as in probability) to get a BG at night.
I just reread your post. “Buckets” are not ride capacity. They are the number of people in a BG times the number of BGs (in the “neighborhood”). This is EXACTLY how is is being done today, when the number of neighborhoods is equal to 1 (remember, a neighbor is nothing but a grouping of BGs.

 

[Dad 2 M & M]

How are requests handled any differently than now, that would cause the problem you describe? It’s the same system as is used now with a modification to the BG assignment. Let’s say there are 99 BGs. I’m saying fill BG 1 through BG 10 first. This, if you’re early and within the number of people * boarding groups/ neighborhoods, you’ll get a BG from groups 1-10. Today when I arrive and people are mashing their phone, it is as likely (as in probability) to get a BG at night.
I just reread your post. “Buckets” are not ride capacity. They are the number of people in a BG times the number of BGs (in the “neighborhood”). This is EXACTLY how is is being done today, when the number of neighborhoods is equal to 1 (remember, a neighbor is nothing but a grouping of BGs.

So, I think I understand MY CONFUSION now...
I'm just now realizing you are saying:
- The current system does not assign requests in order they are received?
- You're saying the BGs are randomly assigned?
- With no bearing to the time the request was made?

Is that what you are saying?

 

[nickys]

How are requests handled any differently than now, that would cause the problem you describe? It’s the same system as is used now with a modification to the BG assignment. Let’s say there are 99 BGs. I’m saying fill BG 1 through BG 10 first. This, if you’re early and within the number of people * boarding groups/ neighborhoods, you’ll get a BG from groups 1-10. Today when I arrive and people are mashing their phone, it is as likely (as in probability) to get a BG at night.
I just reread your post. “Buckets” are not ride capacity. They are the number of people in a BG times the number of BGs (in the “neighborhood”). This is EXACTLY how is is being done today, when the number of neighborhoods is equal to 1 (remember, a neighbor is nothing but a grouping of BGs.

Thanks to your explanation I’m beginning to understand.

However the fact remains that right now, within about 15 minutes of opening the process, all the “buckets” are filled.

So in practice, what difference does your system make? And how would the system determine who arrived first if you have 5 thousand people all doing this at the same time?

 

[Dad 2 M & M]

Thanks to your explanation I’m beginning to understand.

However the fact remains that right now, within about 15 minutes of opening the process, all the “buckets” are filled.

So in practice, what difference does your system make? And how would the slystem determine who arrived first if you have 5 thousand people all doing this at the same time?

I think he believes the BG are being assigned randomly....at least that is the best I can tell
Additionally, I still don't get the following:

“Buckets” are not ride capacity. They are the number of people in a BG times the number of BGs (in the “neighborhood”).

Buckets are just a smaller group of the capacity...........Buckets fill his neighborhoods......and the number of neighborhoods times the number of people in each neighborhood would equal capacity........

 

[RollerCoaster]

When do you think they'll get rid of this "boarding groups" thing and switch to fastpass?

I've been told while there was intent to use FP in Galaxy's Edge, at this time FP deployment has been indefinitely delayed. Apparently they're unhappy with the implementation in Pandora and the resulting regular 3 hour+ stand-by line for Flight of Passage. I think finally Disney is seeing FP+ for what it is...a very broken system.

The Boarding Group was intended to be temporary until RotR begins to have more reliable operations. Boarding Groups are more about managing disappointment, instead of an actual improvement.

Possibly Disney's learned a valuable lesson from Universal who has delayed the implementation of Universal Express on the Harry Potter attractions until the new factor wears off and the equipment becomes reliable.

 

[AugieMorosco]

FP+ available when this opened due to very high demand and reliability issues (check out any FP+ line after even one slightly extended downtime and you'll see what a nightmare it can be for the rest of the day).

Given this they had two choices:

ok boomer.

Cannot believe it took 3 pages before we got to an "ok boomer".

 

[AugieMorosco]

bleak, but remember three things:

• It just opened -- very recently. It looked like things would never settle down for Hagrids, and I was getting on in 15 minutes in the single rider line like 6 weeks after its opening.
• This is literally the busiest time of the year. It opened 12/5, so it had its understandable FOMO period of time, and then it went right into the Xmas FOMO crowds. Let's see how it does life gets back to normal and all those families have to go back to work and school.
• Its operating at half capaci

Not anytime soon. And when they do stop the BG process, it will be SB. I doubt FP+ will be for awhile. What could be a compromise is the old FP, where you need to be in the park to reserve it, similar to MaxPass.

Which is almost exactly what the boarding groups are!

 

[SourcererMark79]

Which is almost exactly what the boarding groups are!

Almost, but SB with legacy FP still allows the ability to join a queue at any time if one didn't want to get there at rope drop to get a FP.

 

[Tom P.]

ok boomer.

Anyone who uses this phrase should be banned from the forums.

No, I am not joking. Not in the slightest.

 

[GinaD613]

First trip August 1974. Waited in line for Jungle Cruise 2-1/2 hours. That’s time I will never get back.

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

Anyone who uses this phrase should be banned from the forums.

No, I am not joking. Not in the slightest.

Ok boomer

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

First trip August 1974. Waited in line for Jungle Cruise 2-1/2 hours. That’s time I will never get back.

Sounds like time well spent because the jungle cruise is awesome and one of the all Time great rides that has survived the test of time

 

[unmitigated disaster]

Most of the attractions used to be omnimovers, but they've moved towards attractions with lower capacity, plus guests seem more oblivious and slow when they board.

Or, you know, people taking longer to board because they are elderly and/or have disabilities.

 

[Jon81uk]

Although you could argue at this point that its even more expensive without the ticket books. A single ticket is like $130, and you book three FP+. That's over $40 per crummy ride! I can't imagine why anybody would ever buy a single day ticket, but people do it all the time it seems.

Think of the three pre-booked FPs as the E-ticket in the ticket book, the highly popular attractions. Then you get the filler attractions nowadays by booking further FPs or using stand-by.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Disney aim for everyone to have eight experiences in a park in a day and FP+ was meant to make sure everyone achieves this. But this includes major character meets and shows of course, the parks are not just amusement parks with rides, there are a lot more things to do than just rides.
This would have been the same back in the ticket book days, you got your major E-ticket, plus some lower ticket rides or shows and then A tickets were simple things like the Main Street vehicles. Nowadays you probably don't even think of those as a ride.
But add up your day at a Disney park and compare it to a major amusement park, I bet at the Magic Kingdom you did a minimum of 5 rides in a day, met a few characters, saw a parade, watched a show and a 4D film plus ended the day with a world-class firework display, so your claim of $40 per ride doesn't really wash when you consider everything there is to do in the park.

 

[MrConbon]

How are requests handled any differently than now, that would cause the problem you describe? It’s the same system as is used now with a modification to the BG assignment. Let’s say there are 99 BGs. I’m saying fill BG 1 through BG 10 first. This, if you’re early and within the number of people * boarding groups/ neighborhoods, you’ll get a BG from groups 1-10. Today when I arrive and people are mashing their phone, it is as likely (as in probability) to get a BG at night.
I just reread your post. “Buckets” are not ride capacity. They are the number of people in a BG times the number of BGs (in the “neighborhood”). This is EXACTLY how is is being done today, when the number of neighborhoods is equal to 1 (remember, a neighbor is nothing but a grouping of BGs.

I still don’t understand how your process is any different than what they are already doing. The current procedure has the boarding passes release at park open. The earlier to get to the ticket gate. the earlier you will be inside the park and have the chance to reserve a boarding pass. The first people to reserve a boarding pass gets the earliest group and so on.

They can’t schedule it into morning/afternoon/night because the whole reason of boarding groups is they don’t have to constantly dump a 6 hour queue and offer all of them fastpasses. A morning group could be pushed into afternoon if the ride isn’t operational for the first few hours. Then you have a much longer than the typical 20-30 minutes you wait now.