Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

Finally watched and definitely enjoyed. Was teary from the start and at the end and at various points that the loss of T'Challa conflated with the loss of Chadwick. I continue to love Shuri dearly (and Ramonda and Okoye and Ayo) but Riri needs more development that I look forward to seeing in her show. The reinterpretation of Namor was better than I expected. Martin Freeman is pretty much the definition of charming and continues to please in a very vanilla role. But yes, the FX was terrible. It was like they forgot how to do practical fight scenes that would have been breathtaking and instead went full video game mode.

I'm not sure how the film will stand on its own. But it's one I will definitely watch again at some point and was the best of the (low bar) rest of the Phase 4 films for me - setting SM: NWH apart as that is probably top 3 MCU overall for me.

 

[Jedijax719]

I'm going to guess that in BP3,

Spoiler

young T'challa will train along side Aunt Shuri, kind of like the way young T'challa was going to train along side his dad before Chadwick's passing

I would also not be surprised if the main villain will be either

Spoiler

Kraven the Hunter, who Coogler wanted in Black Panther and is getting his own set up movie

or

Spoiler

Tetu

. It's easy to say it would be Doom, but I think they are reserving him for F4 and Avengers 6. Namor, meanwhile, will be on the outside looking in and MAY actually help Wakanda, but will be challenged by Namorita and Attuma.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

I'm going to guess that in BP3,

Spoiler

young T'challa will train along side Aunt Shuri, kind of like the way young T'challa was going to train along side his dad before Chadwick's passing

I would also not be surprised if the main villain will be either

Spoiler

Kraven the Hunter, who Coogler wanted in Black Panther and is getting his own set up movie

or

Spoiler

Tetu

. It's easy to say it would be Doom, but I think they are reserving him for F4 and Avengers 6. Namor, meanwhile, will be on the outside looking in and MAY actually help Wakanda, but will be challenged by Namorita and Attuma.

The only problem I see with

Spoiler

Kraven

is that he’s going to be in a Sony Marvel film so they’d have to work out deal to get him over to the MCU. But doing that might be easier today or already accomplished considering they now having a working relationship due to the Spider-Man series.

 

[Jedijax719]

The only problem I see with

Spoiler

Kraven

is that he’s going to be in a Sony Marvel film so they’d have to work out deal to get him over to the MCU. But doing that might be easier today or already accomplished considering they now having a working relationship due to the Spider-Man series.

That's what they've done with Spiderman. And Universal "owns" Namor so they can do a solo film but keep Namor with other MCU films at Disney.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Universal Studios can do a Namor/Talocan themed area? They have their new section coming. For that matter, they can do a Wakanda also since they have the park rights.

 

[Disney Irish]

That's what they've done with Spiderman. And Universal "owns" Namor so they can do a solo film but keep Namor with other MCU films at Disney.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Universal Studios can do a Namor/Talocan themed area? They have their new section coming. For that matter, they can do a Wakanda also since they have the park rights.

There are differences however between the Sony/Marvel deal and the Universal/Marvel deal.

With the Universal/Marvel deal they don't "own" Incredible Hulk or Namor characters its just for distribution rights for solo films, but not how the characters can be used within other Marvel films.

But with Sony it was full character rights for the entire Spider-Man family of characters and how they are used, even in the MCU. The only reason they got Holland Spider-Man into the MCU is because of a renegotiation of just the Peter Parker/Spider-Man character in exchange for Feige's help to build out their Sony Spider-Verse. It was a win for the MCU as they got to use Spider-Man and a win for Sony's Marvel movies as they look like they are closely tied to the MCU, even if they aren't in reality.

As for Kraven in the MCU, its debatable on whether the Sony Spider-Verse solo movies without Spider-Man will be successful. So in the long run I could see Sony making another deal to get more Spider-Man family of characters into the MCU, but wouldn't actually bet money on it.

And no Universal can't just use Namor in a themed area as he was not part of the original Uni/Marvel Theme Park deal. Also I believe with Black Panther its limited to just the character and not a whole theme land such as Wakanda.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

And no Universal can't just use Namor in a themed area as he was not part of the original Uni/Marvel Theme Park deal. Also I believe with Black Panther its limited to just the character and not a whole theme land such as Wakanda.

I think Namor may be represented at Universal Orlando (maybe just an illustration or the name or something? Can't recall specifically.). However, if I understand the agreement correctly, Universal can't do MCU versions of characters or locations in the parks, only comics versions.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think Namor may be represented at Universal Orlando (maybe just an illustration or the name or something? Can't recall specifically.). However, if I understand the agreement correctly, Universal can't do MCU versions of characters or locations in the parks, only comics versions.

I can't confirm if he is currently represented at UO either. But what is clear they can't do anything new with him, its limited to only existing usage I believe, and can't use the MCU versions of any character as you stated. So they can't create a new attraction starring Namor or can't build a Wakanda themed area.

 

[tcool123]

I think Namor may be represented at Universal Orlando (maybe just an illustration or the name or something? Can't recall specifically.). However, if I understand the agreement correctly, Universal can't do MCU versions of characters or locations in the parks, only comics versions.

Namor has his own restroom near the exit/entrance into Toon Lagoon.

A big graphic of him that you can’t miss - if you’re using the restroom; otherwise very missable.

I can't confirm if he is currently represented at UO either. But what is clear they can't do anything new with him, its limited to only existing usage I believe, and can't use the MCU versions of any character as you stated. So they can't create a new attraction starring Namor or can't build a Wakanda themed area.

But they could use the og version of Namor, the version that is unfamiliar to the public

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

Namor has his own restroom near the exit/entrance into Toon Lagoon.

A big graphic of him that you can’t miss - if you’re using the restroom; otherwise very missable.


But they could use the og version of Namor, the version that is unfamiliar to the public

I THOUGHT there was an image of him somewhere - just couldn't remember where! Thanks for confirmation!

But what it would therefore mean is that WDW couldn't do anything with Namor since a version of him is at Uni - again if I understand how the contract works.

 

[Disney Irish]

Namor has his own restroom near the exit/entrance into Toon Lagoon.

A big graphic of him that you can’t miss - if you’re using the restroom; otherwise very missable.


But they could use the og version of Namor, the version that is unfamiliar to the public

True, but again based on my understanding of the Uni/Marvel contract they can't do anything really new with him. Meaning that I don't believe they can build a new coaster and slap Namor all over it. I could be misremembering the contract but that is how I remember it read. This is why they can't tear down and rebuild the Incredible Hulk coaster, they can refurbish it but can't completely tear it down and rebuild it. Not to mention that Marvel has final approval on usage anyways.

 

[MisterPenguin]

True, but again based on my understanding of the Uni/Marvel contract they can't do anything really new with him. Meaning that I don't believe they can build a new coaster and slap Namor all over it.

Under the original contract that's public now, Uni couldn't use new characters if they didn't option them after the first two years of the contract.

What they did option was Spider-Man, Avengers, Fantastic Four, Hulk, X-Men... and with them, all their "family" of characters.

Namor is clearly a Fantastic Four villain, so, they *could* use him for a new ride in Superhero Island. But only the old comic book version. Not this new MCU take. Which is unlikely.

There's a supposed revised contract which is more specific about what is on the table and off of it. We don't know what it says.

 

[Disney Irish]

Under the original contract that's public now, Uni couldn't use new characters if they didn't option them after the first two years of the contract.

What they did option was Spider-Man, Avengers, Fantastic Four, Hulk, X-Men... and with them, all their "family" of characters.

Namor is clearly a Fantastic Four villain, so, they *could* use him for a new ride in Superhero Island. But only the old comic book version. Not this new MCU take. Which is unlikely.

There's a supposed revised contract which is more specific about what is on the table and off of it. We don't know what it says.

Thanks, its been awhile since I read over the original contract. But I remember that was always a sticking point with new stuff which has been used as a reason why they won't do a tear down and do a complete rebuild of the Hulk coaster.

 

[MisterPenguin]

which has been used as a reason why they won't do a tear down and do a complete rebuild of the Hulk coaster.

I'd rather believe the reason that they won't do a full re-do of Hulk is the same reason Disney hasn't done a full re-do of Space Mountain.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'd rather believe the reason that they won't do a full re-do of Hulk is the same reason Disney hasn't done a full re-do of Space Mountain.

Well after OLC completes their Space Mountain redo Disney may change their minds....

 

[Jedijax719]

There are differences however between the Sony/Marvel deal and the Universal/Marvel deal.

With the Universal/Marvel deal they don't "own" Incredible Hulk or Namor characters its just for distribution rights for solo films, but not how the characters can be used within other Marvel films.

But with Sony it was full character rights for the entire Spider-Man family of characters and how they are used, even in the MCU. The only reason they got Holland Spider-Man into the MCU is because of a renegotiation of just the Peter Parker/Spider-Man character in exchange for Feige's help to build out their Sony Spider-Verse. It was a win for the MCU as they got to use Spider-Man and a win for Sony's Marvel movies as they look like they are closely tied to the MCU, even if they aren't in reality.

As for Kraven in the MCU, its debatable on whether the Sony Spider-Verse solo movies without Spider-Man will be successful. So in the long run I could see Sony making another deal to get more Spider-Man family of characters into the MCU, but wouldn't actually bet money on it.

And no Universal can't just use Namor in a themed area as he was not part of the original Uni/Marvel Theme Park deal. Also I believe with Black Panther its limited to just the character and not a whole theme land such as Wakanda.

See, I can't keep up with all this "they can't do this, but those folks can only do that" agreements and contracts. I just assume since Namor is "owned" by Universal, the park can do what they want. Shows you what I know!

And the using of the Black Panther character but not Wakanda-makes my head spin. Wakanda and Talocan would be INCREDIBLE worlds for parks and could have some of the BEST motion simulator rides ever! For that matter, ANY underwater world would make for unbelievable opportunities for an amazing motion ride!
For that

 

[Disney Irish]

See, I can't keep up with all this "they can't do this, but those folks can only do that" agreements and contracts. I just assume since Namor is "owned" by Universal, the park can do what they want. Shows you what I know!

And the using of the Black Panther character but not Wakanda-makes my head spin. Wakanda and Talocan would be INCREDIBLE worlds for parks and could have some of the BEST motion simulator rides ever! For that matter, ANY underwater world would make for unbelievable opportunities for an amazing motion ride!
For that

So the important take away here, and maybe its just a fine point, is that the word you should be using here is "right" and not "owned" as the ownership of the Namor character is not in question here, he is 100% "owned" by Disney/Marvel.

As what you're talking about is usage "rights" and specifically the theme park usage "rights" for Uni to use the Namor in IOA, which BTW is the only place they can use him, as the original contract is limited to only the Florida parks, and not every Uni park around the world. As Disney can use Namor (and any other Marvel character) in any other Disney Park outside of Florida. Its the same reason why Disney can use Spider-Man in DCA and DLP even though he is used by Uni in IOA in Florida. And as MisterPenguin pointed out those same "rights" were revised in the recent past, and since we don't know what specifically are in them, Uni could actually have even less "rights" to Namor and other Marvel characters for IOA than we know.

So with all that said Disney has plans to use Wakanda in Disney Parks, or at least has thought about it. As the Disneyland Forward project "concept art" that showed a "potential" usage concept had a Wakanda area depicted. And so while we can't take the "concept art" seriously beyond just a "what if" it shows Disney is at least thinking about its use in Disney Parks.

 

[doctornick]

Under the original contract that's public now, Uni couldn't use new characters if they didn't option them after the first two years of the contract.

What they did option was Spider-Man, Avengers, Fantastic Four, Hulk, X-Men... and with them, all their "family" of characters.

Namor is clearly a Fantastic Four villain, so, they *could* use him for a new ride in Superhero Island. But only the old comic book version. Not this new MCU take. Which is unlikely.

There's a supposed revised contract which is more specific about what is on the table and off of it. We don't know what it says.

That’s not really correct if I understand the contract. The “family” concept is in reference to what couldn’t be used by other parks east of the Mississippi not what Uni could use. Uni can only really use the characters they were already

Specific to Namor, I don’t think either Uni or WDW could use him, with the later depending on how broad the use of “family” is applied (he’s been associated with the Fantastic Four as a villain/anti hero and a member of the Avengers so he’s probably off limits). In regards to Black Panther, I would expect he’s off limit for both parks as well.

That being said, there has been clarifications of the contract that we the public aren’t privy to, but it’s believed there’s a list of available characters for Uni.

As an aside, being depicted on a mural is not “substantial use” of a character in regards to a character. It would have to be something like a ride, M&G, theming if restaurant, etc.

 

[celluloid]

That’s not really correct if I understand the contract. The “family” concept is in reference to what couldn’t be used by other parks east of the Mississippi not what Uni could use. Uni can only really use the characters they were already

Specific to Namor, I don’t think either Uni or WDW could use him, with the later depending on how broad the use of “family” is applied (he’s been associated with the Fantastic Four as a villain/anti hero and a member of the Avengers so he’s probably off limits). In regards to Black Panther, I would expect he’s off limit for both parks as well.

T

Namor is already referenced at Islands of Adventure on a building near Captain America's Diner. It is not just a mural but signage. It is more than just a mural but not sure what it would fall under. But he is in fact represented. A pretty clever use too. I believe it does cover Uni and prohibits Disney on the east coast in this case.

 

[tcool123]

If we want to complicate matters further…

In the Comics gift shop there are murals above the shelving - these murals portray various characters. One of these characters is Doctor Strange, but at the same time Doctor Strange appears nightly at Disney thanks to Disney Movie Magic. In fact, Strange has appeared at DHS as early as 2016 thanks to to a tie in promotional show.

On the other hand a character like Mantis from the Guardians seems to be off limit for both resorts as she is the only member of the team missing from Disney Movie Magic which promoted her debut film.

 

[DCBaker]