Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
Sure. But my point is that you're going to have to pay more to be part of the "in" crowd, or your day at the parks will suffer in comparison to what it is today.
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Big changes coming to FASTPASS in March
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Sure. But my point is that you're going to have to pay more to be part of the "in" crowd, or your day at the parks will suffer in comparison to what it is today.
GLaDOS
Well-Known Member
By change I believe he means forcing people to plan every moment of their trip 180 days out.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
Well, not just that. The money thing is a big deal, I think. That's what it all comes down to... That's why this is all being created. Pay to play, or get out of the way.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
You guys have basically talked yourself back to where I was trying to get at.
We don't know what the impact will be - so lets keep the pitchforks and torches in the closet for now
And even if there is an impact.. there is this common defense of how dare Disney charge for something and create these different tiers of service. It's something they already do all over the property, I don't know why people get all socialist when it comes to the rides. Be it FP, xpass, or whatever... people act like there is total uniformity today and disrupting that is like crossing the streams or something. Yet they forget the ticket books did exactly that.. the more you can pay, the more you can play. And back then it wasn't just 'wait in line longer' it was 'no soup for you!!' if you didn't have the resources.
Certainly Disney has the right to charge more if the public is willing to pay it. Heck, some would say they have an obligation to do so.
From my personal point of view, I feel entitled not to like it. If it negatively impacts my experience, I am less likely to return. There is a tipping point, I believe.
Maybe Disney makes enough off XPass that they don't miss my business (should that tipping point be met). If so, good for Disney and everyone else who comes out a winner under XPass. But it would still make me and many others unhappy campers.
Not that Disney would or should care about that. They have a business to run.
Conversely, as a fan, if Disney's business decisions are not to my liking I feel I have the right to gripe about it on message boards until I reach a point where I just don't care any more.
Admittedly, this is all a worst case scenario. But until we see how it plays out, I think it's worth discussing.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
If it's exclusive, it probably won't have much impact on "the average joe". Let the super rich have their additional perk and let Disney profit off it. No big deal.
But if it is "mainstream", that's a problem. Look at the impact the DDP has had on things (which, I know is debatable). But I don't think many would debate that the DDP has made ADRs harder to get. Imagine that applied to FPs.
And then imagine having to pay for the privelege on top of that.
It's pretty insidious really. FP remains free. But good luck getting one if you don't shell out extra for XPass.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
What gives me some hope is the idea that XPass comes with some kind of exclusive viewing area for the parades. Obviously, that can't be made available to the "average joe" as there is only so much space. I think this aspect of XPass is what leads some people to believe that it really will be exclusive.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
xPass is only a part of Nexgen. I fully expect that any xPass system will be tiered. The problem is not the value of the money, the problem is that giving value for the money. One of the biggest problems in recent years is the lack of a value justification between the price range of the Deluxe and Moderate resorts. There has to be a reason to upsell. Sure, you are going to have a strong contingent who will always go to the resorts. However, there are times of the year when you have full value and moderate resorts but significant availability in the deluxe. You have big profit margin in the deluxe and want something that allows them to sell the rooms without having to discount. There are plenty of Nexgen features that will be available to everyone. You are already seeing some of these ideas. I see a tiered xPass system as possible. I really think the highest tier will be focused on the Deluxe resorts as the cookie that helps them stop rate discounts to fill the rooms. The moderates will probably have access to a lower tier of xPass. I don't think it will be offered to the Value level resorts.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
Hmmm... good point.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Yes, its called 'Margin'. Enticing spending to the deluxes is both higher revenue AND margin.
The concepts are not mutually exclusive. It can be both about limited rollout AND the target of the offering. By starting with the audience most willing to spend... you have less pricing pressure. You roll out your highest priced offerings.. and you don't get beat to hell by the people who are pinching every dollar. Then when all is ready.. and you've made the limited rollout a success... you've created demand for the product. So now, those who can't spend alot need less convincing on why they should spend money they weren't otherwise planning on spending on your new product.. that ohh.. you'll tier down and offer in a package that is more accessible to the lower spenders.
It's all about market manipulation and how you launch products. Lowering prices (even with less services) is normally more appreciated then adding new premium tiers.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Because now we have a system where all guests have equal opportunity to hit all attractions. Any threat to that level playing field and people start crying bloody murder... ignoring that's exactly what Disney had for almost 30 years.
People argue against FP and similar systems with arguements like its 'unfair' because not everyone gets the same chance in their eye to ride. Or here, Xpass is 'unfair' because it caters to those who can pay more vs everyone getting the perk, etc.
Instead of looking at the impact (like you mentioned), most people just want to put their foot down over the very notion of having tiers at all... and lets not even start with the 'tickets should be affordable to everyone who wants to go' arguments every August when prices go up. The problem is more pronounced with DL then WDW.. but people think the property should be some communal resource or something.
Tom
Beta Return
I tend to agree with your hypothesis...however, one must consider the logistics when it comes to the planning and booking end. Say a guest books a week at the Poly and adds xPass Deluxe to their vacation (or however it works). They get it all planned and make their ride reservations, etc....and then they have to downgrade to a Moderate later. Thus, they'd have to downgrade to xPass Moderate and re-do everything. It's like downgrading Dining Plans, only worse.
And while Disney has already established "classes" of guests (whether anyone wants to admit it or not) by establishing 3 levels of hotel accommodations, they're very careful about not offering amenities that are EXCLUSIVE to guests at those resorts (ignoring the monorail, but it was installed when these were the only resorts). For example, just because the GF has a marina and a spa doesn't mean a Value guest can't go there and use them.
Therefore, I don't predict Disney would tier the xPass system in such a way that you have to stay in a certain class of hotel to get a certain level of xPass. I DO see them doing a tiered system, but making each tier available to all on-property guests.
Disney has done a remarkable job of leveling the playing field, while still offering accommodations and vacation components that work for all "classes". Yes, they offer 3 levels of resort hotels, but that's no different than going downtown and choosing between the Comfort Inn, Hilton or JW Marriott. You pay more, you get more.
However, when it comes to things like tickets and FastPasses, everything is pretty much dead even. FastPass is free, and money doesn't give you an ounce of advantage - just timing.
With xPass, if they're going to maintain the level of "fairness", they'll offer the tiers, but offer each tier to everyone, as I mentioned above. The lowest tier should still come with an amicable amount of perks so that the low budget guests can still benefit.
What they should NOT do is cut down on the number of FastPasses distributed in the parks, as that will take away a perk from non-xPass guests. But I believe this effort of controlling return times will allow them to compute an appropriate number of FastPasses vs xPasses distributed each day, for each attraction, and still maintain reasonable wait times in each queue.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting theory.
I don't know if I could buy into it though. Occupancy rates are very high at all resorts, deluxes included. They're not having trouble filling rooms, and I really don't believe they ever will. To your point about weaning people off discounts, I would think there are countless ways to do that without going through the pain and cost of implementation of a new setup like this... Benefits thy could utilize that already exist and already have a depreciated cost.
But I'm no insider. You may be right. I just see something different when I take into account the signs, etc.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
They are filling with a lot of discounts at the Deluxe level. I do a lot of short notice trips and the Deluxe are always available. Many times they are available at discounted rates. One thing I think they would like to do is to get the Deluxe to fill with a lot less discounting. The rooms fill during certain times of the year but they are not running anywhere near the occupancy rates they were a few years ago. There are annual passholder discounts through every bit of the spring with the exception of the two weeks around Easter and right around Memorial day. This is even for the Value resorts too. I can count on one hand the times I have been able to get discounts in major parts of Spring Break. The difference in revenue from a value to a Deluxe on a five night stay is over $2000. I'll be conservative and say 70% of that difference is profit. I don't have access to occupancy numbers. But I do know, it is easier to get a discount at all levels of resorts right now than it should be.
I just did a quick experiment on looking for rooms this weekend. Every Value resort is full. Rooms available at every Moderate and Deluxe resort. There is very little reason to book a moderate or deluxe unless the lower levels are not available right now. Disney has to rebuild the value on the moderates and deluxe resorts, IMHO.
Fractal514
Well-Known Member
To the notion that Disney has determined different levels of class based on dining accommodations, I disagree, I think the guests have determined that there are different levels of class.
There's low-class Betty and the mullet crowd, loud, stupid, and ignorant to how lines work. They may also appear as Brazilian Betty. I'd put the group I saw where all 8 adults were riding rascals with a 4 year old sitting on the handlebars on this one.
There's stressed out Stan, his three kids, and useless frustrated spouse. These folks aren't as outwardly ignorant, they are just fried to hell, having underestimated the parks and overestimated their kids.
There's Daddy Warbucks and the spoiled bunch. These are the folks who think that because they've spent so much on vacation they should be able to do whatever the hell they please, because they deserve it.
There's Penny Mc Pinchersteen who stay's off site, brown bags the lunch, lies about the kids age, uses touring plans that a friend printed out for them, leaves the park to swim at the Poly despite staying off site, and stays around during MK parties even though they don't have tickets.
Disney didn't separate us into classes of guests, we did, and you will find all of these people at all three levels of accommodations. Except Penny Mc Pinchersteen, they'll be staying at the lovely All-Star Vacation Homes. Hey why pay so much money for rooms on property when you can get more for your dollar at an All Star Vacation Home? Movie rooms, private pools, game rooms, a theater, these places have got it all, so why not check them out today at allstartvacationhomess....... dot com.
There's low-class Betty and the mullet crowd, loud, stupid, and ignorant to how lines work. They may also appear as Brazilian Betty. I'd put the group I saw where all 8 adults were riding rascals with a 4 year old sitting on the handlebars on this one.
There's stressed out Stan, his three kids, and useless frustrated spouse. These folks aren't as outwardly ignorant, they are just fried to hell, having underestimated the parks and overestimated their kids.
There's Daddy Warbucks and the spoiled bunch. These are the folks who think that because they've spent so much on vacation they should be able to do whatever the hell they please, because they deserve it.
There's Penny Mc Pinchersteen who stay's off site, brown bags the lunch, lies about the kids age, uses touring plans that a friend printed out for them, leaves the park to swim at the Poly despite staying off site, and stays around during MK parties even though they don't have tickets.
Disney didn't separate us into classes of guests, we did, and you will find all of these people at all three levels of accommodations. Except Penny Mc Pinchersteen, they'll be staying at the lovely All-Star Vacation Homes. Hey why pay so much money for rooms on property when you can get more for your dollar at an All Star Vacation Home? Movie rooms, private pools, game rooms, a theater, these places have got it all, so why not check them out today at allstartvacationhomess....... dot com.
Brian Noble
Well-Known Member
But, here's the thing. Either it is (relatively) cheap, or (relatively) few people will use it. It can't cut both ways.
I agree with others that a higher price point is probably better for the "average" guest experience---because it places less stress on the current FP/Standby system.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
GLaDOS
Well-Known Member
I stayed in a house off of 192 one time. It was a nice place, was super affordable, and in a nice area off of the road (which is a concern with the 192 area).
The carousel of little progress has been updated with a new song to reflect the progress in the Disney company.
There'll be great big lines tomorrow,
Shorter if you choose to pay,
There'll be great big lines tomorrow,
The parks closing early for those who didn't pay to stay.
Man has money and that's the start,
He follows Disney like a mindless fart,
And when he joins DVC,
It's a dream come true for the Disney Company
Sing along while your waiting in the standby line.
There'll be great big lines tomorrow,
Shorter if you choose to pay,
There'll be great big lines tomorrow,
The parks closing early for those who didn't pay to stay.
Man has money and that's the start,
He follows Disney like a mindless fart,
And when he joins DVC,
It's a dream come true for the Disney Company
Sing along while your waiting in the standby line.
News just in they are updating the It's a Small World tune when fastpass is added....
It's a line of laughter, a line of tears.
It's a line of hopes and a line of fears.
There's so much that we share, that it's time we're aware
It's a long line after all.
It's a long line after all.
It's a long line after all.
It's a long line after all.
It's a long, long line.
There is just two lines and standby is not fun.
And a fastpass means I can bypass everyone.
Though the barriers divide, and it's empty on the other side
It's a long line after all.
It's a line of laughter, a line of tears.
It's a line of hopes and a line of fears.
There's so much that we share, that it's time we're aware
It's a long line after all.
It's a long line after all.
It's a long line after all.
It's a long line after all.
It's a long, long line.
There is just two lines and standby is not fun.
And a fastpass means I can bypass everyone.
Though the barriers divide, and it's empty on the other side
It's a long line after all.
The Sherman brothers are just going too far with these updates :lookaroun
All the adults use swear words
And the babies cry
In the holding holding holding holding holding room
Welcome to our torturous hideaway
You unlucky people, you
If we weren`t in the show starting right away
We`d be waiting 2 hours to see it too
In the holding holding holding holding holding room
In the holding holding holding holding holding room
All the adults use swear words
And the babies cry
In the holding holding holding holding holding room
The annual pass holder is an arrogant turd
He loves to be seen and loves to be heard
Most little birdbrains will walk away
But the annual pass birdbrains are here everyday
All the adults use swear words
And the babies cry
In the holding holding holding holding holding room
Welcome to our torturous hideaway
You unlucky people, you
If we weren`t in the show starting right away
We`d be waiting 2 hours to see it too
In the holding holding holding holding holding room
In the holding holding holding holding holding room
All the adults use swear words
And the babies cry
In the holding holding holding holding holding room
The annual pass holder is an arrogant turd
He loves to be seen and loves to be heard
Most little birdbrains will walk away
But the annual pass birdbrains are here everyday