Big changes coming to FASTPASS in March

[David S.]

We must be talking about peak season then because I've never seen FP lines "crushed" at the end of the day in September, December or in March. Not in any park and we always stay beyond closing so I would think we would notice it.

Exactly and well said!

Most of the time I use one "late", it's for an extra ride near the end of the night, and more often that not, the FP queues are walk-ons when I do this. Sometimes the standby queues are even walk-ons and I end up not even needing to use the FP. But they are nice to have in case I do.

And the FP returns are often not even "crushed" near closing on extreme peak days when the closing time is really late. I have extra FPs that I got for night rides on New Year's Eve 2012 for Pooh, Splash, and BTMRR that I didn't even need to use, because the last hour (between 1 and 2 AM) the standby was basically walk-on for all three. I did, however, use my Pan and Space FP, but neither FP queue was backed up at the time (Pan's was a walk-on), so using FPs "late" in these instances would have had no adverse effect on anyone else's wait time.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

We already know standby time is only available in limited places as provided by Disney. And why is your standby knowledge so good, but not about FP? That doesn't make a lot of sense. You know which ones are going to be in demand or not. Just like SB you don't know precisely, but you have a general idea that some rides are going to be hours out while others will be probably 2hrs out, etc.

I have no idea how far out a FP return time is going to be.



Sure there is. The ride could be down. FPs could all be gone. FP could simply not be turned on. FP is so 'unpredictable' you say, yet you say there is no risk at all of not getting one?? Your logic doesn't add up.

Now you're reaching to make your argument in the same way you've accused others of doing. Maybe just before I get over to Splash, there's another 9/11 and they close the park, so I've walked all the way over there for nothing. You and I both know that when I say my trek wouldn't be in vain, it is with the understanding that the highly unlikely does not occur. I don't for a MOMENT consider finding a FP window that doesn't work for me as highly unlikely. Depending on what I have to do that day, it could even be probable.

The same scenarios apply to SB too. Just because you walked to an attraction doesn't mean you're getting on.. now or later.



I don't think it's greedy - I just think it's unfair to expect this new and additional information as some sort of dowery to make this change more acceptable. The issue you are concerned over really isn't unique to FPs with a fixed return time. It's an issue for every attraction regardless of FP. FP with no return time just made it less of a concern because it gave you more flexibility. But it didn't remove the risk, nor really add new ones - just which apply where.

Disagree highly.

I've never understood all the hype over 'multi-class'. We already have it in the parks today.. upsells everywhere... tours.. VIPs... Deluxe hotels vs value hotels.. etc. As long as Disney continues to deliver value for the non-premium offerings... I really don't care that there are other offerings above and beyond what I paid for.

I already said there's multi-class to a certain extent. But it's not as overt as I'm worried it will become. The gap between "haves" and "have nots" is going to widen, and it's going to make a LOT of people very unhappy.

Not me personally... Because I will be one of the "haves". :drevil: But again... Just like ADR's and maxing the FP system... Just because I'll do it doesn't mean I'll like it.

 

[flynnibus]

I have no idea how far out a FP return time is going to be.

But due to your experience you'll know exactly what SB will be like.. sounds like selective memory to me.

Sure there is. The ride could be down. FPs could all be gone. FP could simply not be turned on.

Now you're reaching to make your argument in the same way you've accused others of doing. Maybe just before I get over to Splash, there's another 9/11 and they close the park, so I've walked all the way over there for nothing

By saying the following are possible:

- FP isn't on the for day (happens at the start of every day.. or all together on less crowded days)
- The ride is down (so they turn off FP distribution - they don't give them out while a ride is down)
- That your 'highly unpredictable' FPs are actually out for the day...

That I'm REACHING? These things happen all the time - several happen every day. And you come back with hyperboyle like 9/11?

What a joke - you're obviously not interested in analyzing your own beliefs. Done with it.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

But due to your experience you'll know exactly what SB will be like.. sounds like selective memory to me.





By saying the following are possible:

- FP isn't on the for day (happens at the start of every day.. or all together on less crowded days)
- The ride is down (so they turn off FP distribution - they don't give them out while a ride is down)
- That your 'highly unpredictable' FPs are actually out for the day...

That I'm REACHING? These things happen all the time - several happen every day. And you come back with hyperboyle like 9/11?

What a joke - you're obviously not interested in analyzing your own beliefs. Done with it.

I never said I knew exactly what standby would be like, but nice attempt to spin to make your point. I said I would have an IDEA of what the standby would be like. If crowds are crazy in my corner of the park, chances are they are as well in the other corner.

FP distribution times change with the speed at which FP's are distributed. That changes each day. I don't know that every day at 2PM, distribution times are going to be for 8PM at Splash. I have NO idea what the return time will be. How do you?

I've never seen FP off for the day.

Rides are down a small percentage of the time. It very very rarely happens to me. I consider that highly unlikely. And the few times it happens, you deal. There are some things out of your control. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take control of those risks that you can.

FP's being gone for the day is the only point you make above that I've had happen to me more than a handful of times. Which is exactly why I'd like the information at my fingertips to know that before hand.

Look, I think I'm one of the only people in this thread that's saying I'm cool with the change, I'm just making a suggestion on how to make it easier for everyone, and not using BS reasons for trying to use fastpasses late. If you are so hell-bent on proving everyone wrong that has a different opinion from you, I don't know what to tell you. Do you really feel like I'm THAT far out of line to suggest they provide FP distribution info in places around the park? Seriously? That's all I'm suggesting. I really don't understand why you care, or why that's so evil.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

"Well, in the last 6 years, over 20 managers and 50 front line CMs have told me it was not "against the rules" to use a FP late, but because Fosse and some other fans on WDWMagic think it is wrong and "selfish", I will police myself and follow a "rule" that in Disney's eyes, did not even exist? (although I know it apparently will on March 7)

Well guess what? As you said, it will exist after March 7th. So get off your high horse and move on along with everyone else complaining about this.

It's happening whether you like it or not, and should have been happening all along. I've never liked it, and I never agreed with the idea, but I parroted it to everyone because, unfortunately, we were told to.

The responsibility now lies with the person at Distribution to make sure that before guests even put their tickets in the machines that they know the rules. Remember: Disney is a business and WDW is their property. Whether you agree or like it or not, they reserve the right to change their policies at any time without notice. And in this situation, they are not, in fact, changing a policy. Every WRITTEN piece of documentation in regards to FastPass mentions return window enforcement. Anything to the contrary was verbal and is therefore not a binding policy. If the written policy was always the same, then theoretically nothing has changed, they're just choosing now to adhere to what was written in the first place.

Deal with it.

 

[David S.]

Well guess what? As you said, it will exist after March 7th. So get off your high horse and move on along with everyone else complaining about this.

It's happening whether you like it or not, and should have been happening all along. I've never liked it, and I never agreed with the idea, but I parroted it to everyone because, unfortunately, we were told to.

The responsibility now lies with the person at Distribution to make sure that before guests even put their tickets in the machines that they know the rules. Remember: Disney is a business and WDW is their property. Whether you agree or like it or not, they reserve the right to change their policies at any time without notice.

Deal with it.

Sounds like you're the one on a "high horse". Who said I wouldn't "deal with it" after March 7. I was merely quoting was I was told in the parks in the past about it not being "wrong" to use them late to illustrate why I wasn't the "selfish" wrongdoer others were painting me as when I've used them "late" BEFORE March 7.

This is a forum and we are free to discuss our opinions. Like every change that happens at WDW, some will like it and some won't. Deal with it!

I hope you don't talk down to guests in the parks like this.

Regarding your edit about written policy of "window enforcement", I'd love to see the written policy that says "late returns won't be accepted". The back merely states that the pass is only valid on the date printed and that early returns won't be accepted. I've never seen anything written explicitly state they are only good for that window, and when combined with numerous verbal confirmations from many ranging from front line CMs, coordinators, attractions managers, and Guest Relations hosts that using them "late" was NOT against the "rules", I don't see how anyone could fault me or anyone else for coming to the logical conclusion that we weren't doing anything wrong by using them "late."

Also, I just want to clarify that just because one person on here expressed so much anger that they said they would take it out on a CM if ever challenged, I am not the sort who would do that. I have always had a good rapport with the CMs I've dealt with, and respect their hard work. Just wanted to point that out.

Besides, there are much easier, smoother ways to get what you want than unloading on a CM...

Have a magical day!

 

[the-reason14]

Honestly if you knew about the policy's leniency and choose not to act on it for your own reasons whether it was your choice or because you wanted to be perfect of whatever, then good for you. I could careless although you may have missed out. At the end of the day pre March 7 2012, we were allowed in any time after the first hour printed, and I could honestly careless if you think it's 'wrong' or not. It's not up to you, and even though it may indirectly affect you and it may make you feel better to say how 'wrong' I/we are, hey I still got in. :ROFLOL:

 

[invader]

Sounds like you're the one on a "high horse". Who said I wouldn't "deal with it" after March 7. I was merely quoting was I was told in the parks in the past about it not being "wrong" to use them late to illustrate why I wasn't the "selfish" wrongdoer others were painting me as when I've used them "late" BEFORE March 7.

This is a forum and we are free to discuss our opinions. Like every change that happens at WDW, some will like it and some won't. Deal with it!

I hope you don't talk down to guests in the parks like this.

Also, just because some people on here expressed so much anger that they said they would take it out on a CM if ever challenged, I am not one of those people. I have always had a good rapport with the CMs I've dealt with, and respect their hard work. Just wanted to point that out.

Besides, there are much easier, smoother ways to get what you want than unloading on a CM...

Have a magical day!

Well, it will be "wrong" beginning March 7th. Deal with it!

 

[CRO-Magnum]

I believe stats I have heard in the past say average attraction counts for guests are more like 12-15 - not 20+. So boosting 25% would only mean 3+ rides.. which is not unreasonable.

And I think you exaggerate with 'because there's not enough time to visit another attraction'

The default return window is typically an hour or more away. That means your return time is at least 1-2 hours away, usually more. You can't enjoy an attraction or eat or tour within 1-2 hours?

If you thought people rode 20-25 attractions a day.. that would be like 2 attractions an hour for people. Yet now you think they can't get something done in an 1-2 hrs? Your own math defeats your point.

You misunderstood my comment. I'm not saying 1-2 hours isn't enough time for an attraction. What I'm saying is whereas without enforcing the end of the FP window you could gather FP's as you circled the park waiting for and riding attractions back to back and then tack on the additional 5-7 as you go via FP's.

Soon, every couple of attractions you'll have to report back for your FP which invariably will mean waiting. All that time spent waiting accumulates and I believe will mean that for every 1-3 FP's you'll lose 1 attraction off of your total for the day. So if you previously ignored the end time and typically hit 12 attractions plus 3 more with FP's for a total of 15, I'm theorizing you'll only be able to do 12-14 attractions total which lowers the benefit. Disney will still be able to claim a boost from FP's; in fact this could increase that percentage I just realized. However the number of attractions per guest per day would drop which is the better measure. On busy days I truly think you'll lose 1 attraction off your total for every FP you use. The question will be how well will people be able to take advantage of the interim waits between arriving at the FP attraction and when their FP is good. Lunch and dinner are pretty easy to schedule, but unfortunately bathroom stops are not.

But hey, I could be completely wrong. I'll have to see how it works out.

At 20-25 I was trying to use an extreme case modelling my teenage daughters who go from open to close + magical hours and that's the range they typically fall into, but I admit they're optimized to the hilt.

 

[the-reason14]

Sounds like you're the one on a "high horse". Who said I wouldn't "deal with it" after March 7. I was merely quoting was I was told in the parks in the past about it not being "wrong" to use them late to illustrate why I wasn't the "selfish" wrongdoer others were painting me as when I've used them "late" BEFORE March 7.

This is a forum and we are free to discuss our opinions. Like every change that happens at WDW, some will like it and some won't. Deal with it!

I hope you don't talk down to guests in the parks like this.

Also, just because one person on here expressed so much anger that they said they would take it out on a CM if ever challenged, I am not the sort who would do that. I have always had a good rapport with the CMs I've dealt with, and respect their hard work. Just wanted to point that out.

Besides, there are much easier, smoother ways to get what you want than unloading on a CM...

Have a magical day!

Honestly if people want to be "law abiding Disney citizens" and never use their fastpass after it's hour window, then shoot, give it to me! I'll take it haha. It's better then looking at your watch outside of space mountain and say, "Oh golly gee, gosh darn, it's 12:01 and our fastpass expired at 12, oh well, in the trash you go." :ROFLOL: Of course this is all changing now but I agree with your last statement; "Besides, there are much easier, smoother ways to get what you want than unloading on a CM"

 

[David S.]

Well, it will be "wrong" beginning March 7th. Deal with it!

If the rumors are true. But this is irrelevant to the fact that the discussion I was defending myself in was about whether the behavior of using them "late" was unethical BEFORE March 7 and before this news even broke.

Deal with it! :wave:

 

[CRO-Magnum]

The thing you conveniently forget in your...

The thing is that none of these examples are legitimate reasons for using a FP after the return window. They are almost all selfish excuses. Yes, we all like to go on our favorite rides multiple times, and FPs can aide that. But it's not an entitlement.

...diatribe assessing the selfishness of others is that DISNEY, not the guests, changed the policy by only enforcing part of it. So if Disney says the MK opens at 9am but let's people in at 8:55am you'd just stand there the extra 5min?

If Disney, as the owner and operator, says it's okay to do something, then it is and NOBODY is being selfish for taking advantage of it. Selfish is when people get FP's for attractions they won't ride, or for their whole family when only a couple of people can ride it, and then throw the FP's away. That's the only way I can see for someone to be selfish. And the change in policy won't do anything for those people.

I prefer selfish people to those who want to tell me how to live my life and make decisions for me.

 

[flynnibus]

But hey, I could be completely wrong. I'll have to see how it works out

I certainly agree that those that maximized their FP usage will get lower number of rides now if they don't plan ahead. What will become more important now is getting that next FP BEFORE you get on your FP return. That ensure you still get the same max # of FPs you got before.. but unlike before, this strategy would probably require far more 'commando' mode where you are bouncing across the park endlessly to make sure you got back for your return and possibly close return windows.

But for the majority of guests, there won't be any reduction, because things are just as they were before for them.

Basically what it means is those that were highly optimized will lose, while the majority will stay the same or possibly gain. It brings everyone back to where they should have been to start with.

It's all about perspective... people can look back and say 'wow, that was great that I was able to get so much more then expected..' and enjoy what they had.. or they can complain they always should have the best possible scenario and how dare someone bring them back to normal.

I for one am much happier that the system will have a chance to work as designed.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Just playing devil's advocate here:

What if the intent of X-Pass is to add 30% more fastpasses overall to the system each day, thereby making both stand by and FP waits increase?

What if the intent of X-Pass is to SUBTRACT 30% of the total fastpasses currently given out free, making them "pay only" benefits, thereby decreasing your chances of being able to receive a FP for any given attraction in a day by 30%?

What if X-Pass is never offered to AP holders... Only to Deluxe guests and DVC members?

If they do something like the above, will you still be in favor of it?

I'm not saying this will happen... I'm just thinking of possible impacts to the system, and what they might have up their sleeves.

I think the consensus on here is that most people are coming out against xPass. You just made it worse, so I expect most people to continue to be against it.

I am sure every poster on here has ridden every single ride at WDW a least 1 time. Why not wait in just one line so someone that has never been to the most magical place on earth can for once get a fast pass to a ride. Then maybe they can ride everything at least once like everyone here!......

No.

Laziness - or controlling you? As much as people harp about wishing for the grander days of less park commandos and more taking time to smell the roses... putting more and more info to make you even more machine like doesn't help the cause.

Let's face it.. there is no reason Disney couldn't have put FP in a central place to start, or during it's many tweaks - yet they insisted on putting more FP machines out in places where they don't even necessarily have room for them. I think this points to specific intent - and not just being oblivious to the requests.

Disney COULD give you wait times and FP return times everywhere.. including in your pocket. Heck, they could have done it via SMS updates years ago too.. but they haven't.

Just because you CAN doesn't always mean you SHOULD in business.

Look at the interactive artwork we have now. Disney could easily build a perfectly themed Tip board anywhere in the park that would look STUNNING and play to things like the land.. imagine 'wanted' posters showing attraction times in Frontierland, etc.

I doubt it's money, technology, or even ideas holding them back at all - but more about business choices.

It's not horrible at all. It's part of design and marketing. Face it.. the quicker people get through a park, the less satisified they are with it and demand more from the park. How many times have we heard that about DCA and Universal Studios? 'I did everything I wanted in 4hrs and then I left'. That is NOT what a company wants after dumping hundreds of millions into a place. Giving you the most streamlined, efficent path may make sense from a consumer view - but it doesn't always from a business view.

You're absolutely right that they have a vested interest in keeping you in the park longer. It's maddening though when the attempts to keep you in the park aren't actual entertainment. It's the 10 minutes it takes to walk into The Land Pavilion to check to see if the Soarin' Fastpass Return time works in your schedule, and then if it doesn't, it's the return trip to Soarin' 40 minutes later to check again.

Here's a novel idea Disney - take a look at what Universal is doing this summer to extend guests days at Universal Studios? A 5 o'clock parade followed by a nighttime show. New offerings are far better at keeping guests in a park than more down time. If you want people to stop considering DHS a half day park don't be surprised when it drops below DAK in attendance when Fantasmic is cut for a year and Star Tours is closed for 6 months to add the upgrades. They fix that "half day" issue by adding to the park. The same holds true at the Animal Kingdom. Everybody leaves after the 3:45 parade - and two significant walk throughs and the most substantial ride in the park close early on many nights due to an early sunset.

If you want people to spend more time in the parks, give them more things to do. Don't create unnecessary busy work for them. flynnibus' explanation is more than likely accurate, but it doesn't mean that we have to be satisfied with it.

They're trying to schedule guest vacations 6 months in advance, but they won't let people schedule their day on the actual day that they're there? They can just as easily integrate dining reservations into this Fastpass touchscreen kiosks I'm asking for.

 

[mickeyminiemom]

I keep seeing people complain that the only way to find out FP times is to go to the machine and that is not so. Surely somewhere in these 40 plus pages someone mentioned that there was an APP for that. We had I believe touring plans this summer and it gave us wait times and what time was being disturbed at the FP machines. I know some of you will say I don't/can't/won't use that but that is a ridiculous excuse if it is really that important to you and you want to make your trip as easy as possible you will pay the.99 cents for the app.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I keep seeing people complain that the only way to find out FP times is to go to the machine and that is not so. Surely somewhere in these 40 plus pages someone mentioned that there was an APP for that. We had I believe touring plans this summer and it gave us wait times and what time was being disturbed at the FP machines. I know some of you will say I don't/can't/won't use that but that is a ridiculous excuse if it is really that important to you and you want to make your trip as easy as possible you will pay the.99 cents for the app.

...and $80/month for the phone plan...

 

[flynnibus]

If you want people to spend more time in the parks, give them more things to do. Don't create unnecessary busy work for them. flynnibus' explanation is more than likely accurate, but it doesn't mean that we have to be satisfied with it.

The answer isn't always 'just add more to do'. Look at DL as the prime example. No one wanted anything to go away, yet everyone was bored with what was there, and demanded that Disney just keep expanding. DL needed to expand, but needed to be able break the notion that it was just something to do while you were in SoCal. They needed to expand, but also be able to monetize it and make it look like more than what people had a prenotion of what DL is. Hence the DLR concept and eventually DCA.

You must have a rounded offering and diminishing the value of your investment by minimizing someone's commitment isn't always a good strategy.

Hasn't anyone heard of 'Make it easy to get in, but make it hard to get out?' Same thing. Why not make all food types available at all stations? They want you to go visit a spot, not just get what you need and leave.

So much of this type of design goes on without the guests even knowing they are being manipulated. But there are other examples where the manipulation is far more apparent.

While you may think you shouldn't be satisfied.. you must accept the fact that when you are in someone else's product, you are likely being manipulated by design. Pressing for a 'customer first and only' world just isn't practical. The place isn't a charity.

A good example of this is transportation at WDW. WDW doesn't make it easy for someone to go from WDW to UNI now does it? They clearly know people want to do it, but Disney doesn't do anything to help those customers. Here it's pretty blatant they are not helping, and it's purely self-serving for the company.

But there are far more subtle things done in the parks in layout, where things are located, the size of a location, etc - all usually done with an eye to manipulate your behaviors.

It's a balancing act and companies generally try to be subtle with such things, but one can't let themselves get worked up because they exist or pull your hair out when there are things the company simply refuses to do. You gotta accept it or walk away from it. You can try to pressure the company to take the customer's side over their own.. but can't act like this is the first crime against customers.. when they've been manipulated all along.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I keep seeing people complain that the only way to find out FP times is to go to the machine and that is not so. Surely somewhere in these 40 plus pages someone mentioned that there was an APP for that. We had I believe touring plans this summer and it gave us wait times and what time was being disturbed at the FP machines. I know some of you will say I don't/can't/won't use that but that is a ridiculous excuse if it is really that important to you and you want to make your trip as easy as possible you will pay the.99 cents for the app.

Disney's official WDW park app is free on Verizon... :sohappy:

You are right to a point, there is a way to find this information out, but sadly, it is via smart phone... I hate the use of my smart phone to enjoy my trip to the park...

I believe Buried was the poster here who suggested these tip boards in each land... I wouldn't be against that...

 

[David S.]

...and $80/month for the phone plan...

Good one! :ROFLOL:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I keep seeing people complain that the only way to find out FP times is to go to the machine and that is not so. Surely somewhere in these 40 plus pages someone mentioned that there was an APP for that. We had I believe touring plans this summer and it gave us wait times and what time was being disturbed at the FP machines. I know some of you will say I don't/can't/won't use that but that is a ridiculous excuse if it is really that important to you and you want to make your trip as easy as possible you will pay the.99 cents for the app.

I don't have Verizon so I can't use the "Disney sanctioned" app, so that one is out the window.

The other apps are not controlled by Disney and rely on user input for their realtime information. That leads to horribly inaccurate info at worst, and questionable info at best. I'm across the country right now and I can go to these apps and input that Soarin' has a 5 minute wait.

Surely in these past 40 pages you saw that I didn't just complain, but offered solutions to the issue in the form of a Disney sanctioned app that went across all platforms... But that even that wouldn't work for foreign visitors that don't want to pay exorbitant international data roaming rates... Hence my suggestion of easily accessible info in each land.

... Or maybe you just focused on the complaint.