Big changes coming to FASTPASS in March

[flynnibus]

I stand by my point.

Also, you don't always know when you're going to feel tired and want to leave the park. And you also don't know if your meal at Citricos will last for an hour or for 2.5 hours. That's why spontaneity is a nice thing. Not everything can be planned out perfectly.

Sure - and if you don't get to use your FP - no big loss. Not every perk need to be utilized to it's fullest for it to be of value to you. So if someone decides heading to the pool is more valuable to them then being able to skip waiting in a line. That's their choice. No one is penalizing them for not using the FP they took.

If you could choose your ride time instead of settling for the one window available, this discussion would be moot...and that's where X-pass is most likely about to come in.

Certainly that would a value - and why I support Disney productizing that value if they chose to.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that this could potentially effect park hopping. I could see this as a possibility, but I'm really interested to see how this affects Fastpass distribution times. Perhaps a comprimise (albeit a confusing one) can be reached where guests can turn in same day expired fastpasses for new fastpasses later in the day when available.

I could also see Disney being a little more loose at attractions where the return time is only 40 minutes out, and be completely inflexible on the high demand Fast Passes like Toy Story Mania, Soarin', Space Mountain and Peter Pan's Flight. In all likelihood this won't be the case, but it wouldn't shock me.

If this becomes too problematic, it will definitely be something that will result in my shifting more vacations to the West Coast instead of Florida.

 

[David S.]

Your perspective.. but by your view then Disney has been flip flopping on this for years.

Well, if they were inconsistent about this I was honestly not aware of it, and never experienced it personally. In my experience as a WDW APer and resident from 2006-2007 and APer and seasonal resident from 2008-present, EVERY time I used one "late" or asked a CM if it was against the "rules" to use one "late", the response was always consistent and the same. They let me use the "late" passes, and whenever I asked CMs about the FP "rules" for "lateness", they always stated "They are good from the first time printed on the ticket until park closing".

If you say there have been times when this wasn't the case, I am not arguing with you; I'm just stating my experiences to show that as far as my park experience goes, nothing or no one ever indicated to me that using them "late" was breaking any "rules" or doing anything "wrong".

I honestly had no idea that coming after the one hour window was considered an issue to some people until I saw some members of this board complaining about it a few years ago in a FP thread. But certainly nothing I experienced firsthand in the parks ever indicated that it was against the "rules" to use them anytime between the first time printed on the ticket and park closing on the operating date on which the FP was issued.

I do recall the thread about testing at Splash Mountain last year regarding "latecomers", but if I recall correctly, they were still allowed on the attraction after being asked why they were "late". Since that thread, however, I was told again by all CMs that I asked upon returning to Florida this winter that the passes were valid "from the first time printed on the ticket until park closing".

 

[pax_65]

I don't have a problem with Disney enforcing the return time, and I don't have a problem with Disney selling X-Pass as a value added service to guests who are willing to pay for it.

What I DO have a problem with is how Disney will manage the crowds on popular attractions for guests who choose not to purchase the X-pass. I was at WDW last fall on some fairly busy days - not Christmas week or Summer busy, but moderately busy for a Fall weekday. The line for Toy Story Mania was over an hour shortly after park opening. The line just to get FPs was over 20 minutes. All Fast Passes for the entire day were gone about an hour after park opening.

With X-Pass reducing the number of FPs they can distribute (or reducing the standby line capacity, or both), I see the possibility that if you want to ride TSM, you will have to be there immediately after park opening (either in the standby line or to get your FPs), wait over an hour in the standby line, or purchase an X-pass.

 

[flynnibus]

This thread is full of those people, and that's what's driving the discussion. I'll get used to the new policy, but I'm sick and tired of being called a rule breaker, scum of the earth, a scammer, a cheater, an abuser, and whatever example of word vomit you can think of.

I call it gaming because it's manipuating the system to your advantage beyond the system's intent. Lack of enforcement doesn't change intent. Just because Disney doesn't lock a door, doesn't mean its free reign. Now you may game the system by utlizing these unlocked doors to some advantage, but that doesn't change the fact the door is not intended to be used for that. Disney didn't enforce the return time out of customer leniency, not because the FP system wasn't designed for a return window.

Is it abusing a privilege? I think so, but obviously Disney didn't think it was enough of a problem to address it.

I don't call people names who chose to do it (I did too) but I'm not gonna cry if Disney changes it. It was latitude Disney gave people.. but reserved the right to revoke it. And now they have.. unfortunately it took them new constraints with their next big thing to enforce what they should have been doing all along.

 

[Skipper03]

I feel sorry for the CM's involved who have to tell guests "Sorry, its not like the past decade for fastpass return times anymore"

I expect guest services to be filled with complaints, partially due to unavoidable circumstances like:

People being stuck on other attractions
Restaurant reservations/service taking longer than expected
Parade blocking people's ability to get back to the attraction (See Animal Kingdom)

I can also imagine people running through the park in attempts to make sure they get to their FP window on time.

Has there been any mention of changing the return window to a longer period?

You know... I love the current FP system & take full advantage of it... but it's not like they have to offer a FP system at all. When you look at it from that perpective it really doesn't make this seem so bad!

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Sure - and if you don't get to use your FP - no big loss. Not every perk need to be utilized to it's fullest for it to be of value to you. So if someone decides heading to the pool is more valuable to them then being able to skip waiting in a line. That's their choice. No one is penalizing them for not using the FP they took.

Certainly that would a value - and why I support Disney productizing that value if they chose to.

Speaking for myself, if I have a fastpass and can't use it because I was tired and decided to go swimming, I feel like that FP is a sunk cost. I'll be a annoyed that I can no longer use it when I could in the past. Because I'm either forced into using the FP and staying in the hot, crowded park for another hour even though I feel tired (which I wasn't planning on, but it just happened after a few hours racing across MK), or I go back to my resort (what I actually feel like doing) and miss my favorite ride. Bottom line - I won't be happy, and depending on the extent of my frustration, Disney might be losing a customer. Disney can't afford to make a large proportion of its customers unhappy (because then they're more likely to shorten stays, book less trips, or worse - try out competitors). As such, the late FP users are either an extremely small group and their satisfaction isn't a concern to Disney (meaning these complaints about late FP users are overblown), or Disney is hoping that X-pass and nextgen will compensate for the frustration increase by allowing people to avoid some of those problems in the first place. I'm betting on the latter - this is linked to X-pass, and Disney's goal is to increase revenue and customer satisfaction simultaneously.

 

[flynnibus]

With X-Pass reducing the number of FPs they can distribute (or reducing the standby line capacity, or both), I see the possibility that if you want to ride TSM, you will have to be there immediately after park opening (either in the standby line or to get your FPs), wait over an hour in the standby line, or purchase an X-pass.

Having to wait over an hour for a popular attraction should not seen like an unnecessary burden. Maybe expectations are off on what waits should be?

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

You know... I love the current FP system & take full advantage of it... but it's not like they have to offer a FP system at all. When you look at it from that perpective it really doesn't make this seem so bad!

Customer perceptions and expectations change over the years. At this point in time, many Disney travelers couldn't imagine the park without fastpass, because it creates the perception of waiting in less lines. I'm sure a lot of guests feel entitled to it now, and threatening to remove it would certainly hurt Disney (even if a few people would appreciate the move).

 

[Rowdy]

For Universal's Express Pass, you have the opportunity to use it for almost every ride in the park once. There are 2 or 3 exceptions. There is no set time you need to use them. They scan the barcode when you use it so you cant use it again for the same ride. There's no rhyme or reason as to when you need to use it at what ride. There's nothing to stop everyone who has an Express Pass to use it at 10am on the Hulk. It seems to work out ok for them. However, they are extra $$$. I think we paid $25 for ours last spring and that was for both parks there.

Ah, I see. So, it's a one ride type of deal. I don't think that'd be so bad. Thanks for the info! :wave:

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Having to wait over an hour for a popular attraction should not seen like an unnecessary burden. Maybe expectations are off on what waits should be?

That's key. It's all about expectations. The presence of fastpass has made lots of people feel like they don't have to wait for the most popular attractions. I certainly don't want to. Plus, with the era of smartphones, people want instant gratification. They don't want to wait and be bored for a whole hour of their precious vacation.

As such, by forcing people to wait in the regular line or miss their favorite ride, people will be disappointed. How many, I don't know.

 

[flynnibus]

Speaking for myself, if I have a fastpass and can't use it because I was tired and decided to go swimming, I feel like that FP is a sunk cost. I'll be a annoyed that I can no longer use it when I could in the past. Because I'm either forced into using the FP and staying in the hot, crowded park for another hour even though I feel tired (which I wasn't planning on, but it just happened after a few hours racing across MK), or I go back to my resort (what I actually feel like doing) and miss my favorite ride. Bottom line - I won't be happy, and depending on the extent of my frustration, Disney might be losing a customer

A lot of things are 'sunk costs' - like staff, customer relations, 'magical moments', DME, ferries, transportation options, etc. There are a lot of things that potentially could be utilized that in effect, you have paid for, but getting the most out of every one of those is a vision that would only cause people to have less enjoyment of their vacation. If you miss the freshly baked cookies... I don't think its reason to start saying I'm never going back to the place.

FP is another one of those perks. One shouldn't get wound up because they missed out on an opportunity to get the most out of it.. especially if they didn't because they did something else they thought they would enjoy more!

As such, the late FP users are either an extremely small group and their satisfaction isn't a concern to Disney (meaning these complaints about late FP users are overblown), or Disney is hoping that X-pass and nextgen will compensate for the frustration increase by allowing people to avoid some of those problems in the first place. I'm betting on the latter - this is linked to X-pass, and Disney's goal is to increase revenue and customer satisfaction simultaneously.

Or simply the negative impact of this change is overblown and the changes in behavior of people is actually not that big of a burden.

What is the worst possible outcome of this change? You don't get to use a FP ticket. Let's keep that in perspective.

 

[flynnibus]

Ah, I see. So, it's a one ride type of deal. I don't think that'd be so bad. Thanks for the info! :wave:

The paid one is 'one use only' per ride. The perk ones are unlimited use.

The system works because of the same logic of FP. If you keep the rate of # of users low compared to the capacity of the attraction, you can sneak it in with minimal impacts.

UNI manages the load by dynamically pricing the Express Pass option, with it being VERY expensive during peak times. Uni has so much excess capacity it really doesn't alter the park much.

 

[38053WDW]

If you have a dining ADR for Ohana at 5:45, and you go to Splash and see FP return for 5:30 to 6:30, a reasonable person would know they are going to miss their FP return window.. then you don't get the FP... if the ride is that important for you, either get there first thing in the morning or just wait online...

True dat !! I can't imagine going up to the FP and look up and see the times shown for the "next" wait time and knowing I have dinner at xyz and still get a ticket ... My logic would be to get it early and not near my ADR "window" ... Kinda feel like people think they can get on a bus from AK and go over to MK and expect to walk up to FP and say great times !! :brick:

 

[draybook]

I call it gaming because it's manipuating the system to your advantage beyond the system's intent. Lack of enforcement doesn't change intent. Just because Disney doesn't lock a door, doesn't mean its free reign. Now you may game the system by utlizing these unlocked doors to some advantage, but that doesn't change the fact the door is not intended to be used for that. Disney didn't enforce the return time out of customer leniency, not because the FP system wasn't designed for a return window.

Is it abusing a privilege? I think so, but obviously Disney didn't think it was enough of a problem to address it.

I don't call people names who chose to do it (I did too) but I'm not gonna cry if Disney changes it. It was latitude Disney gave people.. but reserved the right to revoke it. And now they have.. unfortunately it took them new constraints with their next big thing to enforce what they should have been doing all along.

I can concur with most of this post.


While I don't consider it abusing the system, I too will not shed a tear over losing that part of the perk. It just means being at a ride when the window says. No big whoop at all.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

A lot of things are 'sunk costs' - like staff, customer relations, 'magical moments', DME, ferries, transportation options, etc. There are a lot of things that potentially could be utilized that in effect, you have paid for, but getting the most out of every one of those is a vision that would only cause people to have less enjoyment of their vacation. If you miss the freshly baked cookies... I don't think its reason to start saying I'm never going back to the place.

FP is another one of those perks. One shouldn't get wound up because they missed out on an opportunity to get the most out of it.. especially if they didn't because they did something else they thought they would enjoy more!

Or simply the negative impact of this change is overblown and the changes in behavior of people is actually not that big of a burden.

What is the worst possible outcome of this change? You don't get to use a FP ticket. Let's keep that in perspective.

But when you actually have a FP ticket in your hands and you can't use it, that'll sting a lot more than the Magical Express service I chose not to use because I didn't want to. Again, it's about how the customer perceives something, not about actuality.

Also, regarding keeping it in perspective, you don't seem to get it. It's not just "you don't get to use a FP." For some, it could mean missing their favorite ride, or having to wait an hour in a hot, sweaty standby line. These are all much worse than simply not using a fastpass. Yes, you can sum it down to "you didn't get to use a fastpass," but in terms of how the customer will feel after the experience, there are many more factors.

 

[WisDisneyFan]

Not a big problem for us. We've always arrived early for the times printed on the ticket. We never knew you could come back "whenever" it was good for us. Feel sorry for the CM's though.

 

[PhilharMagician]

For the millionth time, I never said all deluxe guests are impacted, but that deluxe guests are more likely to be impacted. Learn to read, please. Or if you can read, stop putting words in my mouth and address my actual point.

It's just simple logic. If I get a fastpass for 1pm but I feel like going back to my nice resort at 12pm and then swim for 2 hours, I'll miss my return window. If my fastpass is for 5:30 but I have a reservation for Citricos at 5:45, I'll miss my return window. Deluxe resort guests are more likely to do things that make it harder to make your exact return window.

All I can say is :ROFLOL:

Agreed, and I may do something similar.
We're leaving Florida in a couple months, and while I will continue to visit WDW, my trips out west will certainly become much more frequent.

So first you say I don't have to plan ahead, but then you say "well duh, you've got to use ADR's". Which is it?

You do know you didn't use have to have ADR's, right? Before the DDP and ADR's, you could walk up to virtually every restaurant on property, put your name down, wait a few minutes, and get a table. Now, if you want to eat a steak in Canada, you have to decide so months in advance. I don't use ADR's because I WANT to... I do it because I HAVE to. I'm "keeping up with the herd" as it were. Maybe you didn't frequent WDW back then, and don't have the same frame of reference as others... Maybe you don't have anything to compare it to. ADR's have killed the idea of locals popping in for dinner. I'm not a local, but can identify with their plight.

Wow, I have never seen that! I remember waiting most times about 45 minutes and sometimes over 1 1/2 hours trying to dine during peak mealtime hours. I know that I should have not waited, but it was that or eat another burger. I personally have never enjoyed these sublime dining conditions. What years are you talking about?

The best years that I can remember were right after 911, but ADR's were in use then.

The addition of ADR's was great. This way I did not have to be at the park at rope drop to get preferred dining times at preferred restaurants.

 

[Spikerdink]

To me, FP was always a perk that sometimes I used and sometimes I didn't on my stay. It's like the use of the gym equipment at the hotel - it's a perk that if I wanted to, I could use. Because I choose not to does not mean that I have gotten less of a value for my vacation. It's a choice I make.

When my group goes to the FP kiosk, we look at the return times. If we had plans on doing something else at the printed return time we had to make a decision - forgo the FP and keep our plans, or change the plans and take the FP. It allowed us to make the choice - once again, our choice - about what meant the most to us.

Not having known the FP return was open ended, there have been times I realized I was going to miss the window and gave away the FP to another family and sometimes I have just kept them since it was impractical to find a way to give them up. (For two years I kept a Soarin' FP in my wallet and when I looked at it I would remember all the good times I have had at WDW)

All in all - the system needs to be fixed. I like the idea of a central place for FP acquisitions in all parks and I like the idea of choosing your return window. With the new systems in place computerizing all aspects of the parks, I have no doubt that this could be implemented and possibly is among the upcoming plans.

 

[flynnibus]

But when you actually have a FP ticket in your hands and you can't use it, that'll sting a lot more than the Magical Express service I chose not to use because I didn't want to. Again, it's about how the customer perceives something, not about actuality.

Yes, but there is also reason involved. Customers with unreasonable expectations are still going to be unreasonable.

I've walked out of the park before with many unused FPs. I never felt crushed that I never got to use them.. more of 'oh I could have done XYZ again.. hrmm.. oh well' and they go in my drawer of randomly saved objects.

I mean even to use your pool example. Are you going to make yourself suffer and ride that ride one more time while you are miserable... just because you don't want to waste that FP? No, you're going to look at the 'value' of that FP and decide its far less valuable then your alternative.

Also, regarding keeping it in perspective, you don't seem to get it. It's not just "you don't get to use a FP." For some, it could mean missing their favorite ride, or having to wait an hour in a hot, sweaty standby line. These are all much worse than simply not using a fastpass.

If it were their favorite ride, they would prioritize it accordingly. Rarely is there any situation in the parks where you can't ride an attraction because you don't have FP. You just need to decide what is important to you. Is it ride 3 more rides, or ride this 'favorite ride'?

I think you are exaggerating these negatives way too much. Waiting in standby is not like being sentanced to Turkish prison or something. It's waiting in what are the world's best designed queues building anticipation to what you're already described as 'their favorite ride'.

If waiting in standby is so vile to make the ride not worth it.. maybe the ride isn't really that good.

Not having a FP or failing to use one... is not keeping anyone off an attraction.. especially their 'favorite' one.