News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[ChrisFL]

Are you implying that giving each one a round logo doesn't make it more cohesive on its own?

 

[Rich Brownn]

That's a good point. Most have adapted that model for modern audiences. Personally, I loved those 15-minute long rides with huge show scenes and dozens of animatronics, but anyone who visited Epcot in the 2000s might recognize that those things weren't resonating with guests the way they once did.

Epcot’s immersive edutainment approach is arguably responsible for a host of applications across urban spaces, learning environments, shopping and entertainment venues, etc.

I’m just saying, what Epcot was has left a big impact, but Epcot needs to move on in many ways.

Let's be honest. Those rides weren't abandoned because they weren't popular. They were because they were expensive and lost the sponsor.

 

[Rich Brownn]

but does "moving on" mean abandoning what EPCOT's mission was and devolving into Magic Kingdom Part Deux? I think the general tenets of the park are still viable...there is a way to integrate IP and continue to tell the EPCOT story...
It takes planning and vision... Which seem to be sidelined right now.
For the record I like Cosmic Rewind... I like that they bothered to make it feel like an old EPCOT Pavilion...but then it is an oddball attraction in that area of the park without any other similar things... We still have World Of Motion/Test Track, then Mission Space, then a Xandar Pavilion.... That is a really strange collection of pavilions... On the other side, The Seas, Moana, The Land, and the shell of Imagination... another incoherent grouping of pavilions...the center s corporate urban park with a big meet and greet/ festival center... It just feels like complete miscellany.

The thing that was great about the original EPCOT Center was it was unique. The closet to it was the NY World's Fair. It wasn't a copy of Disneyland, nor an attempt to reproduce Universal Studios, Sea World, Busch Gardens or any other park. It was something unlike anything anyone -- including Disney -- had ever built before.

 

[_caleb]

Let's be honest. Those rides weren't abandoned because they weren't popular. They were because they were expensive and lost the sponsor.

Hmm. I remember walking on to Horizons before it went seasonal and I hardly remember waits for Universe of Energy. I know they were designed for high throughput, but it sure seemed to me like they’d lost popularity.

The last time I rode The Great Movie Ride, they were only doing one of the two alternative shows. I thought this was due to decreased interest?

 

[ChrisFL]

Hmm. I remember walking on to Horizons before it went seasonal and I hardly remember waits for Universe of Energy. I know they were designed for high throughput, but it sure seemed to me like they’d lost popularity.

The last time I rode The Great Movie Ride, they were only doing one of the two alternative shows. I thought this was due to decreased interest?

It's IMO a combination of both. Horizons was in rough shape in the post-sponsor years as they really didn't keep it up and I think it should have also had some minor updates over the years.

Also, omnimover attractions like Horizons has a huge throughput, but we know from the Hoot and Chief videos that they would often be on the attraction with hardly anyone else around.

 

[Horizonsfan]

It's IMO a combination of both. Horizons was in rough shape in the post-sponsor years as they really didn't keep it up and I think it should have also had some minor updates over the years.

Also, omnimover attractions like Horizons has a huge throughput, but we know from the Hoot and Chief videos that they would often be on the attraction with hardly anyone else around.

Yeah, multiple things can be true at once.

The OG experiences had decreased in demand because Disney was too cheap to refresh them as they were designed to be. The rides were never meant to be a "set it and forget it", hence why there were so many film points in the experiences. Just as we've seen with the 3D theaters, Midway Mania, and other film experiences, Disney is lazy about updating visual media.

Let’s also not discount the games played with Horizons availability in the 90s and lack of marketing, if early internet crowds were unsure if it was even open or existed, that didn’t help attraction patronage.

The park needed a better balance of calm and thrill attractions. The park also needed some more things for young children. I can concede those points. That doesn’t mean they had to 100% destroy what was there. They could have done modifications similar to how Sinbad’s voyage was changed at TDS. They could have continued actual expansions of thrill like those planned for the Disney decade. They took the cheaper and less creative route by demo’ing bold and costly experiences like Horizons and the original Imagination.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

SSE has had multiple updates/changes over the years, but in many ways it's still the same core ride and people still like it.

There's no reason the same could not have happened with WoM, Imagination, Horizons etc and that was the plan for Horizons before GE dropped their sponsorship.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Also worth considering there was a lot more stuff to do at Epcot overall in that era. Plus fewer people, so crowds were more spread out. C Tickets still had entertainment value so there wasn't as much of the mindset that something had to be a nearly-impossible-to-ride E ticket to be popular. Cultural shift and Disney slowly changing perceptions have contributed to that mindset.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

SSE has had multiple updates/changes over the years, but in many ways it's still the same core ride and people still like it.

There's no reason the same could not have happened with WoM, Imagination, Horizons etc and that was the plan for Horizons before GE dropped their sponsorship.

Also worth considering there was a lot more stuff to do at Epcot overall in that era. Plus fewer people, so crowds were more spread out. C Tickets still had entertainment value so there wasn't as much of the mindset that something had to be a nearly-impossible-to-ride E ticket to be popular. Cultural shift and Disney slowly changing perceptions have contributed to that mindset.

I continue seeing people argue that the rides were empty, but it really is ignoring the reality of the park. Original Epcot was a capacity monster and outside of the rides, had so many shows and activities that there was something to do everywhere you looked. People also continue to gloss over that a busy day for Disney in the early 90s, which was probably around 20,000 people, is what low attendance looks like by today's standards.

 

[_caleb]

I continue seeing people argue that the rides were empty, but it really is ignoring the reality of the park. Original Epcot was a capacity monster and outside of the rides, had so many shows and activities that there was something to do everywhere you looked. People also continue to gloss over that a busy day for Disney in the early 90s, which was probably around 20,000 people, is what low attendance looks like by today's standards.

The reality is that society changed. More people in the parks, yes, but also those people didn’t want to go on a 15 minute slow ride through educational and inspirational dioramas. And when they did go on those rides, the effect on them was largely not what it had been on previous generations.

 

[osian]

The reality is that society changed. More people in the parks, yes, but also those people didn’t want to go on a 15 minute slow ride through educational and inspirational dioramas. And when they did go on those rides, the effect on them was largely not what it had been on previous generations.

Not convinced..that's a very sweeping generalisation, and so cannot be true. If the park and its attractions were not wanted by any of the visitors then it wouldn't have had increased visitors. The park became more popular because people liked it, not because they hated it. And the park still has "15 minute slow, educational, inspirational" rides which people love,and you can also include the films and American Adventure in that category.

 

[_caleb]

Not convinced..that's a very sweeping generalisation, and so cannot be true.

I’ve never heard that sweeping generalizations cannot be true. I imagine you don’t really think that.

If the park and its attractions were not wanted by any of the visitors then it wouldn't have had increased visitors.

“Not wanted by ANY visitors”? I know I was speaking generally but I wasn’t saying NOBODY liked it, just that it was clear that over time, those classics weren’t met with the same degree of appreciation as they used to be.

 

[Rich Brownn]

The reality is that society changed. More people in the parks, yes, but also those people didn’t want to go on a 15 minute slow ride through educational and inspirational dioramas. And when they did go on those rides, the effect on them was largely not what it had been on previous generations.

And yet SE still draws a crowd to its slow-moving 15 minute long educational ride. The Land still draws people. The others still did but with their enormous capacity even a large for Magic Kingdom ride crowd would look empty. And it still doesn't detract from the fact that Epcot nowdays is hardly unqique withers IP-driven coasters, simulators and trackless clones.

 

[_caleb]

And yet SE still draws a crowd to its slow-moving 15 minute long educational ride. The Land still draws people. The others still did but with their enormous capacity even a large for Magic Kingdom ride crowd would look empty. And it still doesn't detract from the fact that Epcot nowdays is hardly unqique withers IP-driven coasters, simulators and trackless clones.

So are you saying everything at Epcot was just fine as it was?

I'm a huge fan of Epcot's original edutainment approach. I loved those classic attractions. One of my favorites is still Living with the Land. I really treasure Spaceship Earth. I'm just a bit more sober-minded about the impact those rides have on modern audiences vs. the impression they made on folks a generation ago.

From my own personal experience, I've observed that as those rides grew/have grown long in the tooth, they became less popular (beyond what can be explained by high throughput). This doesn't mean NOBODY rides them or that NOBODY likes them, or that they don't still draw guests, just that they don't resonate with guests the way they used to.

I'm surprised anyone would disagree with this assessment.

 

[tparris]

Most of the EPCOT logo ground lighting seems to be working now, save for one or two sections with incorrect colors. The weird thing is, it still seems to be in some sort of B-mode, where they’re never ever on all at the same time, but instead random sections slowly pulsate on and off. They do change colors for the shows, but even then it remains in the weird B-mode and it’s not nearly as intertwined with the shows as it should be. The lights lose most of the charm that way imo, and I really dont understand why it’s not in proper show mode if most of them are working now.

 

[tparris]

Most of the EPCOT logo ground lighting seems to be working now, save for one or two sections with incorrect colors. The weird thing is, it still seems to be in some sort of B-mode, where they’re never ever on all at the same time, but instead random sections slowly pulsate on and off. They do change colors for the shows, but even then it remains in the weird B-mode and it’s not nearly as intertwined with the shows as it should be. The lights lose most of the charm that way imo, and I really dont understand why it’s not in proper show mode if most of them are working now.

Several of the tree lights aren’t working, and quite a few of the pavement lights at Dreamer’s Point aren’t working either.

 

[tparris]

Some lights work during some sequences, and not at all during others. Now I’m just questioning the know-how of the people behind the programming/software end of this stuff if it’s this blatantly unreliable.

 

[James Alucobond]

The weird thing is, it still seems to be in some sort of B-mode, where they’re never ever on all at the same time, but instead random sections slowly pulsate on and off. They do change colors for the shows, but even then it remains in the weird B-mode and it’s not nearly as intertwined with the shows as it should be. The lights lose most of the charm that way imo, and I really dont understand why it’s not in proper show mode if most of them are working now.

I had assumed it was an intentional mode meant to obfuscate when things were going awry since it makes it less apparent that certain sections are out.

 

[tparris]

I had assumed it was an intentional mode meant to obfuscate when things were going awry since it makes it less apparent that certain sections are out.

The thing is as of tonight every single section is at the very least lighting up, again save for some incorrect colors on a few. There’s not much reason to be using the mode still

 

[voodoo321]

It's not that we need to go back to the old EPCOT, though it WAS greatness in it's original form and up to the early nineties. There are many valid arguments why it changed and doesn't work in today's world. There are also valid arguments why it would. It really boils down to the fact that there is no vision now and the things they are bringing to the park these days aren't inspiring. Theme parks, at their core, should be about escapism and creating dream-worlds that an a person can step into to escape from ordinary life. Not only are these new areas uninspiring and ordinary, there is no flow that draws you into them or to pavilions beyond. There isn't any sort of wonder about any of it and no connectivity. It could be in any downtown modern American city and we would say. "hey this is nice". And that's the most that can be said about it.

I just got back from my first trip to Tokyo and if you haven't been, they do it the way it used to be done here or better. Instead of complaining and fretting about the parks here and knowing that the company will keep going down this road, it is worth it to me to make Tokyo Disneyland and DisneySea my home parks from now on. Even with the high airfare the total cost is comparable or less than a WDW vacation and the people are actually nice to you there, which hasn't been much the case in my last couple years at WDW.

I keep going back to WDW like a battered wife. It's sad to say goodbye but it's Tokyo for me now. I had thought Paris was going to be my new happy place too until Iger bought it out, raised the prices and cut staff.

Hail the OLC! I can still ride the GAOAT there too.