News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[James Alucobond]

Not sure if it was said already, but the World Nature bypass looks to be open again.

The entire Spring section of Journey of Water is also functioning, so hopefully whatever they fixed helps with some of the reliability there.

 

[flyerjab]

I should clarify - I can get behind that Studios opinion easily. It's still an underbuilt park. But, it has added a lot more in thsoe 10 years.

I personally think Epcot is a different story. But, much of that is just how poorly this improvement project has turned out for the cost vs. what could have been done (and I think more universally applauded, especially from a story standpoint). The park needed help desperately 10 years ago. I just find the things that were done helped some things and hurt others. It's at best a net neutral if not slightly negative.

I just feel like commenting that I really appreciate this type of discourse about the parks. I have to check out at times when it becomes too juvenile or overly hyperbolic. We can all agree to disagree without the amount of toxicity that percolates in the threads from time to time.

While I agree that I like the original theme for each park, I accept that certain concepts will be a struggle to maintain under current leadership. If the primary goal is IP everywhere, that makes Epcot nearly impossible to maintain with regard to its original intent. However, I’m not losing my mind over it either. We just went down for 4 nights wife and we had a blast. Walking up through the front of Epcot and into the garden area was a beautiful experience. And I think that the Moana addition is a fantastic addition. Is it IP driven? Yes. But I find it works really well here. Is Cosmic Rewind IP driven? Yep. But honestly, they could have used the original Columbo as the IP and that ride would still be spectacular. In the end, I’ve decided to find enjoyment in Epcot. And we really, truly do. The ride lineup - CR, Moana, SSE, Soarin’, LwtL, Rat, TT, Nemo, FEA, 3 Cab, M:S, Luminous - is a much better mix. There is edutainment, enjoyment, some thrill, walk-through, water rides, movies, and a plethora of food options along with a new place to relax. I love the variety and how this park changes through the seasons.

 

[Bocabear]

if IP is the mandate there are easy ways to integrate IP into the World Showcase that don't feel shoe-horned in... The FEA ship has sailed... Rat was a very good IP placement that doesn't feel wrong...they did not need to change the pavilion to be about a mythical country...it works perfectly. Coco in Mexico...perfect fit, Mulan in China? Perfect fit. Mary Poppins, again Practically Perfect in every way...As long as the showcase pavilions don't become the home to Magic Kingdom characters that already have a presence over there, I think it would be fine...but an attraction (ride) at each pavilion would really flesh out the park...

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I just feel like commenting that I really appreciate this type of discourse about the parks. I have to check out at times when it becomes too juvenile or overly hyperbolic. We can all agree to disagree without the amount of toxicity that percolates in the threads from time to time.

While I agree that I like the original theme for each park, I accept that certain concepts will be a struggle to maintain under current leadership. If the primary goal is IP everywhere, that makes Epcot nearly impossible to maintain with regard to its original intent. However, I’m not losing my mind over it either. We just went down for 4 nights wife and we had a blast. Walking up through the front of Epcot and into the garden area was a beautiful experience. And I think that the Moana addition is a fantastic addition. Is it IP driven? Yes. But I find it works really well here. Is Cosmic Rewind IP driven? Yep. But honestly, they could have used the original Columbo as the IP and that ride would still be spectacular. In the end, I’ve decided to find enjoyment in Epcot. And we really, truly do. The ride lineup - CR, Moana, SSE, Soarin’, LwtL, Rat, TT, Nemo, FEA, 3 Cab, M:S, Luminous - is a much better mix. There is edutainment, enjoyment, some thrill, walk-through, water rides, movies, and a plethora of food options along with a new place to relax. I love the variety and how this park changes through the seasons.

I agree with that. I think where we devolve is when people tell others to just get in line and enjoy it or just stop going. That's fine for some people. But, for many of us, this was a very important place. And, EPCOT Center was a unique place. So, I've always found it a bit disrespectful - only because there is no other choice. The only reason I criticize a lot of the decisions is because the decisions feel lazy. To your point, Cosmic Rewind could have had a Epcot story (even with an IP tie) and been just as popular. Same for Frozen and RAT. And, it makes it much harder to enjoy Epcot for me - noting that I actually enjoyed Luminous and the new Gardens.

But, back to your point, I wish there was discourse about finding creative solutions. Ideas that everyone might enjoy. Etc. I know the company does not care right now, and it's great for those who are aligned with the company and its vision. But a bit more empathy and understanding about those with different opinions and finding solutions (even if just fan site pipe dreams) would make it a bit more enjoyable.

 

[_caleb]

But, back to your point, I wish there was discourse about finding creative solutions. Ideas that everyone might enjoy. Etc. I know the company does not care right now, and it's great for those who are aligned with the company and its vision. But a bit more empathy and understanding about those with different opinions and finding solutions (even if just fan site pipe dreams) would make it a bit more enjoyable.

I think individuals within the company do care!

Moana is an example of that (edutainment, interactivity), as is the new garden (incorporation of nature, cool lighting, festival space) and GotG (a future world showcase pavilion). I think they're trying to build things to fits into an evolved vision of Epcot.

I get that this isn't everyone's vision of what it can/should be, but I don't agree that it's a "they don't care at all" situation, which is how it is sometimes presented around here (and some of us react to). Sometimes, I don't see fans here really even giving things a fair shake because some seem to hold things up to standards that don't apply today.

I have empathy for those who are disappointed, but I don't understand what "solutions" you're talking about. Do you mean giving Disney feedback?

 

[flyerjab]

Moana is an example of that (edutainment, interactivity), as is the new garden (incorporation of nature, cool lighting, festival space) and GotG (a future world showcase pavilion). I think they're trying to build things to fits into an evolved vision of Epcot.

I agree with this sentiment. I feel like your can tell that Bob’s personal mission statement of “All IP All the Time” has curtailed the full creative ability of Imagineering. That being said, as far as Future World is concerned, I feel like the Imagineers are still trying to build edutainment into the newer attractions. Moana’s educational value is very blatant throughout. Even with the silliness of Cosmic Rewind, if you watch the World Mind presentation, along with the made up information about the Xandarian culture, there is factual information about Earth, our solar system/galaxy, Voyager, speed of light, etc. Is it told in the manner that the older, seasoned Epcot fan appreciates? Probably not. Imagineering is still trying to work edutainment in, and I enjoy the effort despite Bob’s mandate.

 

[J4546]

Yall think the little triangles on communicor place will light up in sync with the show?

 

[James Alucobond]

Yall think the little triangles on communicor place will light up in sync with the show?

Pretty sure they already said as much.

 

[Rich Brownn]

But that works both ways, doesn’t it? Someone might just as well respond with, “It amazes me that people think a park that featured things that have been done over and over by museums, malls, and office parks was better than this vibrant, inviting respite from the cares of the world.” or something?

These days, I’m just resigned to the fact that different people respond to different things. That feeling we used to get from Epcot back in the 90s? Some people get something different, yet still compelling from what’s there today.

I wasn't aware of any museum that had built 15-minute long rides with huge show scenes and dozens of high quality animatronics. But thats just me, I guess. All the ones I went to had mostly static displays.

 

[_caleb]

I wasn't aware of any museum that had built 15-minute long rides with huge show scenes and dozens of high quality animatronics. But thats just me, I guess. All the ones I went to had mostly static displays.

That's a good point. Most have adapted that model for modern audiences. Personally, I loved those 15-minute long rides with huge show scenes and dozens of animatronics, but anyone who visited Epcot in the 2000s might recognize that those things weren't resonating with guests the way they once did.

Epcot’s immersive edutainment approach is arguably responsible for a host of applications across urban spaces, learning environments, shopping and entertainment venues, etc.

I’m just saying, what Epcot was has left a big impact, but Epcot needs to move on in many ways.

 

[Bocabear]

That's a good point. Most have adapted that model for modern audiences. Personally, I loved those 15-minute long rides with huge show scenes and dozens of animatronics, but anyone who visited Epcot in the 2000s might recognize that those things weren't resonating with guests the way they once did.

Epcot’s immersive edutainment approach is arguably responsible for a host of applications across urban spaces, learning environments, shopping and entertainment venues, etc.

I’m just saying, what Epcot was has left a big impact, but Epcot needs to move on in many ways.

but does "moving on" mean abandoning what EPCOT's mission was and devolving into Magic Kingdom Part Deux? I think the general tenets of the park are still viable...there is a way to integrate IP and continue to tell the EPCOT story...
It takes planning and vision... Which seem to be sidelined right now.
For the record I like Cosmic Rewind... I like that they bothered to make it feel like an old EPCOT Pavilion...but then it is an oddball attraction in that area of the park without any other similar things... We still have World Of Motion/Test Track, then Mission Space, then a Xandar Pavilion.... That is a really strange collection of pavilions... On the other side, The Seas, Moana, The Land, and the shell of Imagination... another incoherent grouping of pavilions...the center s corporate urban park with a big meet and greet/ festival center... It just feels like complete miscellany.

 

[ChrisFL]

Are you implying that giving each one a round logo doesn't make it more cohesive on its own?

 

[Rich Brownn]

That's a good point. Most have adapted that model for modern audiences. Personally, I loved those 15-minute long rides with huge show scenes and dozens of animatronics, but anyone who visited Epcot in the 2000s might recognize that those things weren't resonating with guests the way they once did.

Epcot’s immersive edutainment approach is arguably responsible for a host of applications across urban spaces, learning environments, shopping and entertainment venues, etc.

I’m just saying, what Epcot was has left a big impact, but Epcot needs to move on in many ways.

Let's be honest. Those rides weren't abandoned because they weren't popular. They were because they were expensive and lost the sponsor.

 

[Rich Brownn]

but does "moving on" mean abandoning what EPCOT's mission was and devolving into Magic Kingdom Part Deux? I think the general tenets of the park are still viable...there is a way to integrate IP and continue to tell the EPCOT story...
It takes planning and vision... Which seem to be sidelined right now.
For the record I like Cosmic Rewind... I like that they bothered to make it feel like an old EPCOT Pavilion...but then it is an oddball attraction in that area of the park without any other similar things... We still have World Of Motion/Test Track, then Mission Space, then a Xandar Pavilion.... That is a really strange collection of pavilions... On the other side, The Seas, Moana, The Land, and the shell of Imagination... another incoherent grouping of pavilions...the center s corporate urban park with a big meet and greet/ festival center... It just feels like complete miscellany.

The thing that was great about the original EPCOT Center was it was unique. The closet to it was the NY World's Fair. It wasn't a copy of Disneyland, nor an attempt to reproduce Universal Studios, Sea World, Busch Gardens or any other park. It was something unlike anything anyone -- including Disney -- had ever built before.

 

[_caleb]

Let's be honest. Those rides weren't abandoned because they weren't popular. They were because they were expensive and lost the sponsor.

Hmm. I remember walking on to Horizons before it went seasonal and I hardly remember waits for Universe of Energy. I know they were designed for high throughput, but it sure seemed to me like they’d lost popularity.

The last time I rode The Great Movie Ride, they were only doing one of the two alternative shows. I thought this was due to decreased interest?

 

[ChrisFL]

Hmm. I remember walking on to Horizons before it went seasonal and I hardly remember waits for Universe of Energy. I know they were designed for high throughput, but it sure seemed to me like they’d lost popularity.

The last time I rode The Great Movie Ride, they were only doing one of the two alternative shows. I thought this was due to decreased interest?

It's IMO a combination of both. Horizons was in rough shape in the post-sponsor years as they really didn't keep it up and I think it should have also had some minor updates over the years.

Also, omnimover attractions like Horizons has a huge throughput, but we know from the Hoot and Chief videos that they would often be on the attraction with hardly anyone else around.

 

[Horizonsfan]

It's IMO a combination of both. Horizons was in rough shape in the post-sponsor years as they really didn't keep it up and I think it should have also had some minor updates over the years.

Also, omnimover attractions like Horizons has a huge throughput, but we know from the Hoot and Chief videos that they would often be on the attraction with hardly anyone else around.

Yeah, multiple things can be true at once.

The OG experiences had decreased in demand because Disney was too cheap to refresh them as they were designed to be. The rides were never meant to be a "set it and forget it", hence why there were so many film points in the experiences. Just as we've seen with the 3D theaters, Midway Mania, and other film experiences, Disney is lazy about updating visual media.

Let’s also not discount the games played with Horizons availability in the 90s and lack of marketing, if early internet crowds were unsure if it was even open or existed, that didn’t help attraction patronage.

The park needed a better balance of calm and thrill attractions. The park also needed some more things for young children. I can concede those points. That doesn’t mean they had to 100% destroy what was there. They could have done modifications similar to how Sinbad’s voyage was changed at TDS. They could have continued actual expansions of thrill like those planned for the Disney decade. They took the cheaper and less creative route by demo’ing bold and costly experiences like Horizons and the original Imagination.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

SSE has had multiple updates/changes over the years, but in many ways it's still the same core ride and people still like it.

There's no reason the same could not have happened with WoM, Imagination, Horizons etc and that was the plan for Horizons before GE dropped their sponsorship.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Also worth considering there was a lot more stuff to do at Epcot overall in that era. Plus fewer people, so crowds were more spread out. C Tickets still had entertainment value so there wasn't as much of the mindset that something had to be a nearly-impossible-to-ride E ticket to be popular. Cultural shift and Disney slowly changing perceptions have contributed to that mindset.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

SSE has had multiple updates/changes over the years, but in many ways it's still the same core ride and people still like it.

There's no reason the same could not have happened with WoM, Imagination, Horizons etc and that was the plan for Horizons before GE dropped their sponsorship.

Also worth considering there was a lot more stuff to do at Epcot overall in that era. Plus fewer people, so crowds were more spread out. C Tickets still had entertainment value so there wasn't as much of the mindset that something had to be a nearly-impossible-to-ride E ticket to be popular. Cultural shift and Disney slowly changing perceptions have contributed to that mindset.

I continue seeing people argue that the rides were empty, but it really is ignoring the reality of the park. Original Epcot was a capacity monster and outside of the rides, had so many shows and activities that there was something to do everywhere you looked. People also continue to gloss over that a busy day for Disney in the early 90s, which was probably around 20,000 people, is what low attendance looks like by today's standards.