aladdin2007
Well-Known Member
I know the mickey greet is part of communicore hall, but wondering if this is mainly going to be an open again closed again flex space only for special events, and barely open to the public like world showplace......
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News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?
- Thread starter djkidkaz
- Start date
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
Like Odyssey, Wonders Of Life, Half of the Imagination Pavilion, Restaurant Marrakesh, Corporate lounges in Spaceship Earth, and Living Seas... I am sure there are more....
Showcase or Showplace???
JohnD
Well-Known Member
It's a good video. I learned lots of history. It's very artsy though and takes patience to watch.
DreamfinderGuy
Well-Known Member
That's kinda the point yeah, but there's hardly a time when EPCOT doesn't have a festival going on so it will rarely if ever be empty.
RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
Yeah, to piggyback on this, it isn't like the original EPCOT Center was created in an era of mass positivity, either: for the local American audience, 1982 isn't very far removed from, or even overlapped with, Vietnam, Watergate, diminishing investment in American cities, the AIDS crisis, stagflation, oil shortages, deindustrialization, revived Cold War apocalypse fears, and more civil rights issues than you could care to count. One of the very things Disney acknowledged in early literature about the EPCOT project was how it intended to present a more optimistic take on the potential of the future as a response to the vibes of the time. None of this is new. If anything, Disney started that shift away from the more "positive" view of the future during the 90s, supposedly an era of generally good feelings (obviously not for all or anywhere near as much as it's sometimes painted, no era is that simple to summarize).
What might feel new to people, though, is that since the 80s there's been a growth of companies really going out of their way to minimize their commitment to any responsibility that isn't "fiduciary responsibility to make gains for shareholders." Not to say the post WW2 to early 80s era was free from corporate greed or were some golden era where companies looked out for their workers and the public; VERY far from it, in fact. But the 70s into the 80s was the time that marked a transition to a more globally neoliberal approach to economics (talking economic theory here, not partisan-political) and business that is accomplished in more, let's say, "efficient" ways that get emphasized in modern MBA programs. Disney doesn't produce more forward-thinking, risk-taking rides and attractions at the parks anymore precisely because they're more committed to selling investors on the things they do make being surefire hits because they have popular brands attached to them; "of course the marks will love it, we slapped Guardians/Moana/Pixar on it, how could it not be a hit?!"
In other words, Disney isn't reacting to young people becoming "doomers"; the larger corporate landscape that Disney is a part of has played a huge role in creating that environment in the first place. A company of Disney's massive scope and wealth could try to combat that perception and do a ton of truly innovative stuff, things that WED employees in the 70s-80s could've only imagined in their wildest dreams, but they actively choose to not even do basic upkeep on things or just offer aesthetic changes that don't really much improve the overall experience because, well, that should be enough to placate the stockholders.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
This is a really interesting (albeit depressing) point. When EPCOT was in the development stages and even in the 80s we were on the wave of an optimistic future. The park was always aspirational and inspirational, but we live in such a fractured time that such goals seem like true Science fiction.
That being said, it's not like the world was perfect in the late 70s or early 80s. EPCOT today could still be aspirational and inspirational, it's just harder to do this in a climate where negativity reigns supreme.
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BagOfGroceries
Well-Known Member
The actual millisecond hope becomes alive as a concept again that’s when the EPCOT redo of this board’s dreams will happen.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
But they don't even try...They just abandoned the message and edutainment.. Let the park stagnate for a decade plus, then started shuttering rides and pavilions...The mess that this park has become is a direct result of kicking the can down the road and a lack of meaningful investment... and that is sort of across the board.
Now they are trying to reinvigorate it with lots of promises that have all been cancelled, broken budgets, and way too little too late...
Now they are trying to reinvigorate it with lots of promises that have all been cancelled, broken budgets, and way too little too late...
BagOfGroceries
Well-Known Member
And that’s why I ran that opinion past your first. You’re the antithesis. Despite everything, you have the resilience to stand for something, and fall for it all the same. If our generation consisted of more people like you, EPCOT would be beyond perfect.
BagOfGroceries
Well-Known Member
Could the conditions be recreated? Yes, but who knows when, or how?
Instant gratification is a powerful tool
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I think they could be recreated, but I’m not confident they will.
Epcot-as-permanent-World’s-Fair was an amazing concept. But it would have required constant updates and really solid relationships with businesses and countries. I’m not sure Disney is willing to invest in that.
The edutainment model lost its novelty when museums, nature centers, national parks, and schools adopted some of the same approaches. And the concept is really challenged by the internet, smartphones, etc. Disney would need to put much more work into getting peoples attention in order to capture their imaginations like Epcot originally did.
HauntedMansionFLA
Well-Known Member
Test track has a big convention space too
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
I think there is a big difference between true edutainment and what EPCOT Center did. There were definitely a number of edutainment-focused exhibits. Energy, WoL, Seas, LwtL, arguably Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks and the CommuniCore exhibits. However, a good number of the exhibits were much more inspirational than educational. SSE, WoM, Horizons, JII and the ImageWorks. The irony is these are mostly what Disney removed. There are a lot of things existing in the real world that can be showcased to inspire vs. truly educate. Add in history, and it's even easier.
The reason EPCOT Center worked isn't about inspiring people to learn. It was about inspiring people to have hope about our future. To be inspired by our real world. I get the doom and gloom, but there is no reason that can't still work. These don't have to be major stories. They can be simple. But, it should be grounded in real things that make the human world interesting.
Moana gets this close. Remy and Cosmic Rewind both could achieve this easily with a different story.
The arguments that the original EPCOT Center/World's Fair concept would be too difficult and too costly to maintain are valid. But, saying a park based on "inspiring people about the real world" can't work is not something I agree with. And, even worse is the garbled mess of a park we have now with no clear focus other than "possibility".
The reason EPCOT Center worked isn't about inspiring people to learn. It was about inspiring people to have hope about our future. To be inspired by our real world. I get the doom and gloom, but there is no reason that can't still work. These don't have to be major stories. They can be simple. But, it should be grounded in real things that make the human world interesting.
Moana gets this close. Remy and Cosmic Rewind both could achieve this easily with a different story.
The arguments that the original EPCOT Center/World's Fair concept would be too difficult and too costly to maintain are valid. But, saying a park based on "inspiring people about the real world" can't work is not something I agree with. And, even worse is the garbled mess of a park we have now with no clear focus other than "possibility".
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
"The arguments that the original EPCOT Center/World's Fair concept would be too difficult and too costly to maintain are valid."
I don't know... Things like The Living Seas, The Land, Wonders Of Life, don't need to be fully updated, maintained properly, have small updates and additions, but there is nothing about the living seas that has been updated by adding Nemo...Adding Crush was just an addition... not an update. All of these pavilions should have had small updates all along. The basic premise of these pavilions is unchanging really... Now the original Communicore computer attraction really needed a complete redo...technology was obsolete... But that was also an opportunity to create something grounded in newer technologies rather than just tear it out and shut it down.
Wonders Of Life is still a relevant idea for a pavilion... Healthcare is a gigantic business... and since we all need it, it is extremely relevant to everyone. Exploring Energy is still relevant...
I guess no one ever really thought the pavilions would not have any sort of update in decades...
I don't know... Things like The Living Seas, The Land, Wonders Of Life, don't need to be fully updated, maintained properly, have small updates and additions, but there is nothing about the living seas that has been updated by adding Nemo...Adding Crush was just an addition... not an update. All of these pavilions should have had small updates all along. The basic premise of these pavilions is unchanging really... Now the original Communicore computer attraction really needed a complete redo...technology was obsolete... But that was also an opportunity to create something grounded in newer technologies rather than just tear it out and shut it down.
Wonders Of Life is still a relevant idea for a pavilion... Healthcare is a gigantic business... and since we all need it, it is extremely relevant to everyone. Exploring Energy is still relevant...
I guess no one ever really thought the pavilions would not have any sort of update in decades...
_caleb
Well-Known Member
If this is true, in a sense WDWMagic's Forum is the opposite of EPCOT!
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
opposite of EPCOT now... I think most of us on here started out very excited and hopeful about a lot of Disney things... I know I was.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
We can all Armchair Imagineer, I do it pretty regularly with EPCOT personally.
The fundamental issues seem to be a lack of creative vision or an unwillingness by executives to allow creatives to create. There are too much restrictions being placed on creativity at Imagineering right now. I haven't seen a consistent understanding by Disney on how EPCOT works.
Having said that, I believe the latest evolution is a step forward from where the park has been over the last 15 years. That's something. If this evolution was accompanied by updates to Imagination, Seas and Spaceship Earth that aren't tied to IP then the perspective on EPCOT's evolution would be more favorable. Luminous is also a huge factor here. For me, Reflections of Earth's removal was a bigger step backwards than anything that was done in this park's history. Luminous needs to be a homerun and that needs to be followed up with improvements to the three aforementioned rides.