MCast
Well-Known Member
The question is when will we see what happens?
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?
- Thread starter djkidkaz
- Start date
The question is when will we see what happens?
As it stands well before the parks 40th.
MCast
Well-Known Member
Thank you. Do you envision that all of Epcot's potential changes (Future World overhaul + France ride + U.K. ride + any future country to be announced in bulk - similar to how they announced SWL and TSL simultaneously for DHS?
I'd be surprised. There's lots of individual projects (some still not announced, others still may not happen ) - and all of varying time frames.
Plus they get more PR by spreading it out over several years. Don't expect everything to be done before October 2022.
MCast
Well-Known Member
Logic makes sense. I'm fascinated how corporate decides what needs to be tackled from a ride perspective. Do they just brainstorm and pitch ideas until one sticks or is there actually a calculated strategy behind a new ride, attraction, land, etc?
Generally nowerdays it's more pitching, numbers, spreadsheets, roi and corporate justification. Sadly.
MCast
Well-Known Member
That's a shame, but not surprising in the least. I wonder who gets the final say?
RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with the comment I made, or how any of this post works with relation to the topic at hand. Apologies if I'm missing something, but I feel all this serves to do is to remove context from the discussion and attempt to condense the conversation down to blanket generalizations.
The point here is not, and has never been, "all IPs are bad"; I grew up enjoying my trips on Star Tours and other such attractions. The discussion has pretty clearly centered around current Disney corporate practices as they pertain to the theme parks, in which the pendulum has swung almost entirely toward IP/synergistic concepts and almost completely away from original park content, so comparing it with the way WED operated in the early days of Disneyland doesn't really have any bearing on the discussion as it doesn't pertain to the current context.
I could see bringing WED and whatnot into it to this extent: It's entirely possible to build a "timeless" attraction that includes IP in it; I don't think anybody here is going to downplay how successful so many of the classic Fantasyland rides were and are, for example, and there are still legions of people who clamor for the return of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and Mr. Toad, both IP-based attractions. However, I don't think this changes the reality of current Disney creative mandates half-ignoring the serious differences that exist between what qualifies as cultural "staying power" for a film compared to what's necessary to craft a long-term successful theme park ride or attraction; it feels as if the push for synergy has homogenized the overall experience, rather than emphasizing the positive differences that the changes in medium can create to enhance both a physical attraction and the film it may be based on. For me, personally, it's the type of thinking that distinguishes a ride like 20,000 Leagues from a more current attempt such as The Little Mermaid in New Fantasyland; both IP-based, but with very different thought processes, goals, and presentation styles put into each; I would argue that 20k was much more successful in taking advantage of the physical attraction medium than TLM is.
rushtest4echo
Well-Known Member
Sorry if that swerved a bit away from your musings, I was just trying to (half jokingly) point out the discussions that would have been had if these boards were around back then. I completely agree that there's been a shift away from unique stories over the past few decades. But honestly, getting back to EPCOT vs IPCOT- I'm happy to see an update that includes an IP than no updates at all. The seacabs were dormant before Nemo was even released. I'm happy to see synergy or whatever allowed them to re-open a failed attraction that now enjoys healthy ridership (and even entertains kids, something most of EPCOT fails to do). Same goes for Norway and Mexico, both of which are now significantly more popular. Again, I know I'm in the minority here but I'm very glad to see kid-friendly stuff/IP's at EPCOT. EPCOT has been my favorite park since I was a kid on my first visit to WDW in the late 80's. I don't consider it close to being one of "the best" parks on earth, but it's my favorite nonetheless. IP's aren't going to change that. If anything, a BatB ride in France, a Mulan attraction in China and even something like Mr Toad or Alice in the UK would make me love the park even more than I already do. I could care less about the original message, which was already a bastardized/distorted version of anything Walt would have ever wanted. (we've had that debate for decades now, right? Is there really anything left to contribute to EPCOT's original message vs. what it is now? It's over...)
I get that people have a soft spot for EPCOT and don't want IP's there. The same thing's happening over at Animal Kingdom too now. The funny part is, just like Nemo or Frozen at EPCOT, the attractions themselves wouldn't be nearly as criticized if they were simply "The Seas with FIsh and Friends" and "Han's Christian Anderson's The Snow Queen Adventure" (people who still think Frozen isn't Norweigian really should read Anderson's opinions on the "Nordic Spirit" and his visions of the sisterhood of Scandinavian nations). People may still not like the end result, but if Disney re-did those attractions in the exact same manner without the specific IP I can pretty much guarantee that people would have less of an issue with it. Same goes for Pandora.
By the way, I was re-watching "Shoot for the Moon" which is fabulous by the way. In it, they mention Walt Disney's "Once men were on the moon, the dream faded. WIth it, went some of the naive optimism in DIsney's vision of the future." They also state that "Disney in the early 80's existed in a changed world. The 50's optimism of our future was replaced with a new sense of uncertainty."
Also, during that show Micheal Eisner exclaims "Great things got done, EPCOT Center got built, Tokyo Disneyland got built, but experimentation, uh, risk taking, insanity, neurotic creative behavior was replaced by a studied business practice."
Not trying to pour gas on the anti-Eisner flames here, but it's another example of how hard it is to do anything relating to the future, especially when the public at large isn't optimistic about it anymore. It's also telling to see that Eisner viewed risk taking and out of the box thinking was negative and sound business practice improved the company. Not sure anyone here actually agrees with that- but the fruits of Eisner's "biggest risk" are still damaging the company today in DLP. Sound business practice probably should have prevented them from assuming day trippers wanted to stay 5 nights at a DLP hotel, and it probably should have prevented them from building EPCOT at all- since it's nearly impossible to keep re-making rides in a permanent world's fair every 5-10 years as the obsolete often before they even open.
Last edited:
UK idea... A Mary Poppins Sing-along!
The comedians/storytellers can do audience participation stuff like getting people to do a worse British accent than DickVanDyke's!
The comedians/storytellers can do audience participation stuff like getting people to do a worse British accent than DickVanDyke's!
rushtest4echo
Well-Known Member
Not possible.
But again, I'd KILL for a Mary Poppins dark ride in the UK pavilion!
Thanks phoenicians
Well-Known Member
Is it just me or does it seem like more of the focus and money is going to be going into WS rather than FW?
What I'd like to see, for what it's worth:
1. A Dr. Who attraction of some kind somewhere.
2. A return to the transcendent stuff like Tapestry of Dreams that were not IP based.
3. Something clever and sciencey in Innoventions. Science doesn't have to be dull.
4. National and/or international science fairs hosted at Epcot.
5. Different scenarios at Soarin' and Mission Space ala Star Tours.
6. An attraction at each of the World Showcase countries.
7. Free Beer.
8. Free admission for guys like me.
9. Speakers and Events, like Nobel Prize stuff. Why can't the year's Nobel Prize winners be hosted at Epcot for something?
10. Use some of the dead space to salute the World's Fairs of the past. A Hall of Innovation would be a nice rainy day thing.
Epcot should not just be profiting on innovation and scientific history, they should be making it. Why aren't people like Bill Gates giving their TED talks at Epcot? Why aren't actual scientists giving presentations at Epcot? Why isn't Neil DeGrasse Tyson premiering the latest Cosmos series at Epcot? Why aren't ambassadors and foreign leaders stopping by for a photo op and speech at World Showcase? Why isn't Josh Gates giving an Expedition Unknown presentation at Epcot or AK? Make the place not just a thrilling and international funland, but scientifically and culturally relevant. I think it would be great if there was so much of relevance going on at Epcot that a permanent press corps could be stationed there. Use the Odyssey and that big tent thing between UK and Canada.
Remember, Nixon's "I'm not a crook" speech took place at the Contemporary. The final documents to break up the Beatles were signed by John Lennon at the Polynesian. Real history happened (notoriously). For a modest price, it could happen again (positively). Now, I know that the vast majority of guests won't step away from Test Track in order to hear an esoteric talk from the latest Nobel Chemistry winner, but such an event would be cheap to put on, and give real gravity to the place. Science teachers might stop in, and a permanent press corps could have a story from the place every day. Have a big display at the entrances: Today's feature event: John Smith, the Nobel winner of Physics, will be speaking at the Odyssey. Fly him in, put him up, and give him a host to ride the rides. Cool, deep and cheap.
1. A Dr. Who attraction of some kind somewhere.
2. A return to the transcendent stuff like Tapestry of Dreams that were not IP based.
3. Something clever and sciencey in Innoventions. Science doesn't have to be dull.
4. National and/or international science fairs hosted at Epcot.
5. Different scenarios at Soarin' and Mission Space ala Star Tours.
6. An attraction at each of the World Showcase countries.
7. Free Beer.
8. Free admission for guys like me.
9. Speakers and Events, like Nobel Prize stuff. Why can't the year's Nobel Prize winners be hosted at Epcot for something?
10. Use some of the dead space to salute the World's Fairs of the past. A Hall of Innovation would be a nice rainy day thing.
Epcot should not just be profiting on innovation and scientific history, they should be making it. Why aren't people like Bill Gates giving their TED talks at Epcot? Why aren't actual scientists giving presentations at Epcot? Why isn't Neil DeGrasse Tyson premiering the latest Cosmos series at Epcot? Why aren't ambassadors and foreign leaders stopping by for a photo op and speech at World Showcase? Why isn't Josh Gates giving an Expedition Unknown presentation at Epcot or AK? Make the place not just a thrilling and international funland, but scientifically and culturally relevant. I think it would be great if there was so much of relevance going on at Epcot that a permanent press corps could be stationed there. Use the Odyssey and that big tent thing between UK and Canada.
Remember, Nixon's "I'm not a crook" speech took place at the Contemporary. The final documents to break up the Beatles were signed by John Lennon at the Polynesian. Real history happened (notoriously). For a modest price, it could happen again (positively). Now, I know that the vast majority of guests won't step away from Test Track in order to hear an esoteric talk from the latest Nobel Chemistry winner, but such an event would be cheap to put on, and give real gravity to the place. Science teachers might stop in, and a permanent press corps could have a story from the place every day. Have a big display at the entrances: Today's feature event: John Smith, the Nobel winner of Physics, will be speaking at the Odyssey. Fly him in, put him up, and give him a host to ride the rides. Cool, deep and cheap.
I've been advocating planetariums for Future World. You can make the shows as light or as serious as you want. Animated IPs added to serious learning. You can hook up all the theaters for scientific conventioneer presentations.
Both areas have potentially mega bucks earnmarked for them. Not that I expect to see everything happen. Let's come back in a decade and talk about what wasn't built.
rushtest4echo
Well-Known Member
P_Radden
Well-Known Member
I would love to see a planetarium in Future World. Or anything new and science-y for that matter. Some really good points mentioned above about the potential that still lies in Future World, even today. It would be fantastic if they held tech expo's or TED Talks. I can say without a doubt we would plan more trips specifically to see these events.
P_Radden
Well-Known Member
Lol That emoji is perfect for that comment!In a decade, I'd love to see your list of what got built vs. what didn't get built.
rushtest4echo
Well-Known Member
In a decade, I'd love to see your list of what got built vs. what didn't get built.
Me too!
Although it'll probably mirror what the company has always done.
9/10 attractions never get off the drawing board
the remaining 10% got as follows:
half end up in development hell and never get built
another quarter are bounced around and modified until they don't even resemble what someone proposed conceptually at the start
and the remainder might end up getting built, though the budget will always be played with and some concepts just don't work out even after being green-lit
So out of the 20 concepts floating around for EPCOT right now, lets hope two or three are built and that at least one of them is spectacular.