News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[celluloid]

As I was reading this back and forth, the immediate thing that jumped to mind was how the MCU - the most successful modern film franchise - is the epitome of using very old and worm tropes so successfully. There's very little in trying to subvert anything, it's just straightforward good versus evil and I think that the simplicity is one of the greatest strengths. In my experience, many people crave that simple escapism in their entertainment. There certainly is a place for more "sophisticated" storytelling in some films and there are different audiences with different desires, but I think largely the most broad appealing stuff is often going to rely on tried and true tropes because of how universal those concepts are but manages to tell those stories in a quality manner.

Its like a Star Is Born.

A movie that each version has been a hit each time it is remade. Superhero films in this sense are MAYA. They speak to the generation it is released in. The core is there, with details for the contemporary audience to appreciate.


Star Trek and Twilight Zone are other great examples. They were doing morality plays as old as time, in the form of sci fi and horror/fantay.

 

[UNCgolf]

As I was reading this back and forth, the immediate thing that jumped to mind was how the MCU - the most successful modern film franchise - is the epitome of using very old and worn tropes so successfully. There's very little in trying to subvert anything, it's just straightforward good versus evil and I think that the simplicity is one of the greatest strengths. In my experience, many people crave that simple escapism in their entertainment. There certainly is a place for more "sophisticated" storytelling in some films and there are different audiences with different desires, but I think largely the most broad appealing stuff is often going to rely on tried and true tropes because of how universal those concepts are but manages to tell those stories in a quality manner.

I think there are a couple of MCU films that play around with things (at least to an extent) but yeah, by and large the MCU is formulaic storytelling using time-tested tropes.

 

[Drdcm]

Cool. I think it comes down to whether "subverting a trope" amounts to an evolution of storytelling. I think the trend has been away from too-familiar stories, and you seem to be saying, "that's not a trend, it's always been like that."

I agree that Top Gun and Avatar are pretty cliché. I think that may be part of the point–they are a throwback designed appeal to certain audiences. But I also think that's part of what makes them remarkable--when everyone else seems to be trying to do something different, those films just do the same-old-same-old and sort of stand out for it.

Coming back to the comment that sparked this for me, I actually think some of the "modern" films which focus more on emotional nuance and "the bad guy is also a victim of circumstances" or whatever have proven more challenging to translate into theme park attractions than many of the old "bad guy evil" stories (Peter Pan, Snow White, Alice, etc.). This (in my opinion) is why some of the film-based rides (FEA, Rat) haven't been as well-regarded by enthusiasts (FoP notwithstanding) unless they go the retelling-of-the-film route; they assume familiarity with the films and can't rely as much on the tropes to fill in the gaps of the storytelling.

I personally am getting tired of the “misunderstood bad guy”, which I would argue is now a tired trope.

You are correct that movies have been moving further away from traditional villains. Disney even tried to retroactively change one of the greatest (one dimensional) villains of all time - Maleficent.

I think Encanto is a good example of how it doesn’t work. Grandma is realistically the villain in the movie. She’s a psychologically abusive and neglectful. Yet, she’s immediately forgiven as being “misunderstood” because if something bad that happened to her and her husband.

I think, but am not 100% sure, it’s also a commentary on generational trauma. Which is a weird way to rationalize abusive behavior and says nothing about how to actually manage generational trauma.

 

[celluloid]

I think, but am not 100% sure, it’s also a commentary on generational trauma. Which is a weird way to rationalize abusive behavior and says nothing about how to actually manage generational trauma.

This is seen in other endeavors from the company too. Cruella is now more of some sort of antihero, rather than someone who is willing to kill puppies for their fur.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

I think he's talking about the Avengers attraction.

Feels like a mistake to use that for the Avengers too, but at least Flight of Passage doesn't exist in California.

My bad, I guess that makes more sense. Still don’t think it would be a pleasant experience.

 

[Brer Panther]

Inside Out was one of the worst movies ever made. Riley didn't triumph over the movie's villain and she never got the guy.

I thought Joy was the villain of Inside Out.

And doesn't Riley get a boyfriend at the end?

 

[Door Coaster]

Disneyland didn’t shorten their Mark Twain Riverboat ride when they put in Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge.

Way late but yes they did.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

Way late but yes they did.

I just checked the old and new Disneyland maps, and you’re right. They did shorten the Rivers of America at Disneyland for Galaxy’s Edge. At least they put in an Indian Village like the concept art showed. However, like @MisterPenguin said, and I agree, I think there will be a problem with putting in the lands in the area that the concept art showed for Magic Kingdom. It’s unsuitable for building, it’s too close to the fireworks, and it blocks backstage access.

 

[Door Coaster]

I just checked the old and new Disneyland maps, and you’re right. They did shorten the Rivers of America at Disneyland for Galaxy’s Edge. At least they put in an Indian Village like the concept art showed. However, like @MisterPenguin said, and I agree, I think there will be a problem with putting in the lands in the area that the concept art showed for Magic Kingdom. It’s unsuitable for building, it’s too close to the fireworks, and it blocks backstage access.

.....Lol
I mapped the expansion a few pages back. The only part of the expansion that intersected with Penguin's "can't build here" area was Villains Land, which was in an area he specifically noted could be opened up if they moved a fireworks launch pad.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I just checked the old and new Disneyland maps, and you’re right. They did shorten the Rivers of America at Disneyland for Galaxy’s Edge. At least they put in an Indian Village like the concept art showed. However, like @MisterPenguin said, and I agree, I think there will be a problem with putting in the lands in the area that the concept art showed for Magic Kingdom. It’s unsuitable for building, it’s too close to the fireworks, and it blocks backstage access.

We can be certain that Disney can build all of this here or they wouldn’t have said they are thinking of building it. Step 1 is “how much space do we have and what can we fit there?”

 

[ChrisM]

Strapped in though.

You're certainly more clued in than I could ever be, but I thought I had heard/read/made up out of whole cloth that the ride was seated but configured such that it appeared you were with a small group in a Quinjet cabin - early in the ride experience the Quinjet gets blasted apart and the cabin disappears and the seats separate such that each passenger is now "flying" independently.

Although maybe you were supposed to be standing together in the cabin and not seated?

 

[marni1971]

You're certainly more clued in than I could ever be, but I thought I had heard/read/made up out of whole cloth that the ride was seated but configured such that it appeared you were with a small group in a Quinjet cabin - early in the ride experience the Quinjet gets blasted apart and the cabin disappears and the seats separate such that each passenger is now "flying" independently.

Although maybe you were supposed to be standing together in the cabin and not seated?

There’s been a few versions that I know of - so probably even more. The stand up version was like FoP but imagine standing in a “flying suit” that was fixed to the moving floor. Probably better would be a stand up rollercoaster type seat with bling.

 

[sedati]

I think there are a couple of MCU films that play around with things (at least to an extent) but yeah, by and large the MCU is formulaic storytelling using time-tested tropes.

Disney+ seems to be the place to experiment. WandaVision, Loki, and Moon Knight might be my three favorite things Marvel has done. (the other shows are great as well, just not as groundbreaking.)

 

[UNCgolf]

Disney+ seems to be the place to experiment. WandaVision, Loki, and Moon Knight might be my three favorite things Marvel has done. (the other shows are great as well, just not as groundbreaking.)

I loved Loki and the early parts of WandaVision -- it kind of fell apart at the end as it turned formulaic, complete with a big CGI villain fight.

 

[sedati]

I loved Loki and the early parts of WandaVision -- it kind of fell apart at the end as it turned formulaic, complete with a big CGI villain fight.

Wanda did, but it also led to the most emotionally satisfying ending of any project.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I loved Loki and the early parts of WandaVision -- it kind of fell apart at the end as it turned formulaic, complete with a big CGI villain fight.

The ending of WandaVision was seriously impacted by Covid-19. Many of the planned elements had to either be scaled back or dropped entirely (like the Dr Strange cameo)

 

[No Name]

Why does Disney keep lying about Encanto? The movie did bad at the box office.... and in my opinion it isn't a good movie.

.... And before someone brings up Covid... Spiderman No Way Home came out a month later and has made almost 2 Billion dollars.

Surely you understand that it was a hit on Disney+. In terms of minutes watched, it’s one of Disney’s most popular movies ever.

 

[celluloid]

Surely you understand that it was a hit on Disney+. In terms of minutes watched, it’s one of Disney’s most popular movies ever.

The movie does not get more money by the minute watched.(until outside ad space comes in I guess) We live in a world where we can see documentation of kids playing a movie or jut songs over and over again show up as minutes. The way many of us did to movies way bigger than that as kids. Now we just have the companies documenting the babysitter. Of course, replay value sustains popularity to some degree, but I don't see the merch blowing up all this time later like other box office hit properties. It is just their most recent. It is not like Disney was going to push Luca or Turning Red, which were even lower in results. There has not been another push yet from a moderate or major hit. When there is, Encanto will quiet down a bit. When that will be, who knows.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The movie does not get more money by the minute watched.(until outside ad space comes in I guess) We live in a world where we can see documentation of kids playing a movie or jut songs over and over again show up as minutes. The way many of us did to movies way bigger than that as kids. Now we just have the companies documenting the babysitter. Of course, replay value sustains popularity to some degree, but I don't see the merch blowing up all this time later like other box office hit properties. It is just their most recent. It is not like Disney was going to push Luca or Turning Red, which were even lower in results. There has not been another push yet from a moderate or major hit. When there is, Encanto will quiet down a bit. When that will be, who knows.

It's like some people don't even read the thread and wind up posting embarrassingly false stuff..

Does the plot rely on a battle between sisters that’s not set up particularly well? Yes.
Does the grandmother realize the error of her way with no clear rationale as to why? Yes.
Is the music LMM’s best work? No.
Is it even his best 2021 soundtrack to a Latin American animated movie? No.

But.

Was it the most streamed movie of any kind across all platforms last year according to Nielsen, doing more than double the minutes of any other movie? Yes.

So nothing else matters. Sorry. It’s a hit.

Not to mention the Encanto album was number one on Billboard for over a month, and Bruno was #1 for weeks and weeks. And most of the other songs were in the top 100 for months.

Not to mention that Encanto's Tomatometer was 91%, and it's critics' score was 75, and audience score was 72, and its CinemasScore as "A." All very good.

Not to mention another $11M in home video sales.

And however much an album and individually streaming songs make from an album that went platinum in the U.S.

So, looking just at its theatrical take and nothing else is an egregious example of cherry-picking data on the behest of confirmation bias.

Also, Encanto has reappeared on Neilsen's Top Ten streaming movie list again three weeks in a row, a full year after the movie came out. But, you want to, for some strange reason, discount the importance of that.

It means that it's still popular on streaming music, which brings in royalties.

And it contributes to 165 Million people continuing to subscribe to D+. Which winds up being revenue of about $5 Billion per quarter.

Encanto will not quiet down. It has the same arc as Frozen. It's importance in the parks continues to increase, now with a proposed miniland for it. And that only synergizes to keep it popular.

Your take on pop culture phenomena is way too myopic.

Perhaps you want to take a page out of our newly self-minted industry expert and count how many kids dress up in Encanto outfits this Halloween?

 

[seabreezept813]

I feel like there *could* be a way to make sense of Coco in Frontierland, though I think Magic Kingdom probably is actually just not the park for that property - but I definitely agree that Encanto feels more like Adventureland to me.

Think how different Walt Disney World would look if instead of these Beyond Big Thunder and Moana/Zootopia in DAK concepts we got Moana and Encanto in Adventureland, Villains Land wrapping behind Fantasyland to Liberty Square, Coco in Mexico at EPCOT with 3 Caballeros moving to a Brazil Pavilion, Zootopia land north of Animal Kingdom connected by "Bullet Train", and Dinoland USA refurbed and amped up into a legitimate Dinosaur destination.

This isn't all exactly what I'd want (Personally I don't think Zootopia fits AK at all, and I'd prefer less Animated IP in EPCOT rather than more), but if they're committed to bringing these IPs to WDW couldn't they at least do it in a way that makes half-decent sense and/or doesn't put out existing attractions?

It's just odd to me that Disney doesn't realize or care that they have two parks in desperate need of family/accessible to all style rides--AK and HS. So many of the attractions in those parks are RS options.