News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[yensidtlaw1969]

It's just odd to me that Disney doesn't realize or care that they have two parks in desperate need of family/accessible to all style rides--AK and HS. So many of the attractions in those parks are RS options.

I agree - I really think the best way to fix the capacity issues at MK is to build enticing attractions at the other gates. It’s wild to me that this doesn’t seem to be their number 1 priority at WDW.

 

[J4546]

If I was in charge of FL parks Id be expanding DHS first, its the smallest park and needs the most. Then AK, MK and EPcot

 

[SplashJacket]

I agree - I really think the best way to fix the capacity issues at MK is to build enticing attractions at the other gates. It’s wild to me that this doesn’t seem to be their number 1 priority at WDW.

I don’t understand why this is a common sentiment.

An expansion at Hollywood Studios brings guests to the resort, as a whole, not just Hollywood Studios. Disproportionately, it brings them to Hollywood Studios, but Magic Kingdom’s attendance doesn’t fall because the attendance boost at Hollywood isn’t cannibalistic. If you want to better fit capacity to demand at a particular park, adding capacity to that specific park will do that most efficiently.

Adding expansions to other parks will likely increase attendance, making it worse than it was before the expansion (because, in the end, the park still has nothing to show for it).

 

[SplashJacket]

Also, people always mention a 5th gate, and then others will say “but the other parks still need more work.”

A fifth gate is a huge waste of money, because it’s a lot cheaper to expand existing parks and upgrade the existing infrastructure than to start a whole new park’s infrastructure from scratch.

I’d much rather see $5 billion spread across 4 parks than adding a 5th. The themes of the current four allow for pretty much every possible thematic expansion.

If doing this, huge expansion is actually needed. DisneySea’s Fantasy Springs is the first real test of this. Galaxy’s Edge in Disneyland, does add a lot, but it’s still just one area. Fantasy Springs is basically half a park built onto an existing one.

The only downside is potentially people don’t spend enough time at each park. So if you overbuild a park, people may stay less days than needed, than if the park were split in two, but I assume the lower overall infrastructure and overhead counterbalances that.

Adding a huge expansion (like BBT) is exactly what Magic Kingdom needs. Hollywood Studios and AK both need huge expansions, both in footprint and depth of buildout.

Epcot really doesn’t need an increased footprint, it just needs a depth of buildout.

The best way to help a park is to add to it. Add true expansions, not replacements. BBT, if built, would likely be the most transformative park expansion in WDW outside of Pandora.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I don’t understand why this is a common sentiment.

An expansion at Hollywood Studios brings guests to the resort, as a whole, not just Hollywood Studios. Disproportionately, it brings them to Hollywood Studios, but Magic Kingdom’s attendance doesn’t fall because the attendance boost at Hollywood isn’t cannibalistic. If you want to better fit capacity to demand at a particular park, adding capacity to that specific park will do that most efficiently.

Adding expansions to other parks will likely increase attendance, making it worse than it was before the expansion (because, in the end, the park still has nothing to show for it).

For my October week at WDW, I didn't hit MK once because I was too busying hitting up Cosmic Rewind, Ratatouille, RotR, and MMRR.

 

[UNCgolf]

I don’t understand why this is a common sentiment.

An expansion at Hollywood Studios brings guests to the resort, as a whole, not just Hollywood Studios. Disproportionately, it brings them to Hollywood Studios, but Magic Kingdom’s attendance doesn’t fall because the attendance boost at Hollywood isn’t cannibalistic. If you want to better fit capacity to demand at a particular park, adding capacity to that specific park will do that most efficiently.

Adding expansions to other parks will likely increase attendance, making it worse than it was before the expansion (because, in the end, the park still has nothing to show for it).

I don't really buy this solely because attendance is so high almost year round already. While they do cause a bump, they don't cause enough of a bump to really make a noticeable difference for the average guest.

Plus, they have to build expansions anyways. Building them at the other parks makes more sense then adding even more to the MK, which would make the other parks even worse in comparison.

 

[MisterPenguin]

 

[J4546]

I think an Encanto area where the cancelled fire mountain was planned would be great.

 

[SplashJacket]

For my October week at WDW, I didn't hit MK once because I was too busying hitting up Cosmic Rewind, Ratatouille, RotR, and MMRR.

Then there’s me who visited MK twice in a trip born solely out of wanting to ride Guardians.

Theoretically, even if the amount of capacity added is instantly overcome by a new surge of guests, at least the guests within the park have something new to enjoy. Their experience at the park will be better then a busy magic kingdom lacking new additions.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

I think an Encanto area where the cancelled fire mountain was planned would be great.

I thought Moana going that area would be great. Is there room for both?

 

[Brer Panther]

It's just odd to me that Disney doesn't realize or care that they have two parks in desperate need of family/accessible to all style rides--AK and HS. So many of the attractions in those parks are RS options.

Well, apparently the plan is to shove Zootopia and Moana rides into Animal Kingdom... but one of the Moana rides is going to be a flume, so it'll probably have a height requirement.

As for Hollywood Studios, they probably think it's good enough now that Star Wars Land, Toy Story Land, and Mickey's Train Ride are open. It is not. It still desperately needs capacity.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I don’t understand why this is a common sentiment.

An expansion at Hollywood Studios brings guests to the resort, as a whole, not just Hollywood Studios. Disproportionately, it brings them to Hollywood Studios, but Magic Kingdom’s attendance doesn’t fall because the attendance boost at Hollywood isn’t cannibalistic. If you want to better fit capacity to demand at a particular park, adding capacity to that specific park will do that most efficiently.

Adding expansions to other parks will likely increase attendance, making it worse than it was before the expansion (because, in the end, the park still has nothing to show for it).

The problem is that if you keep building at MK because it "needs the capacity" you're just going to keep inducing demand at MK specifically. Especially if they continue this trend of building too high-profile rides with too little hourly capacity. Eventually Magic Kingdom ends up with a ton of things to do while the other parks have only a handful of things each . . . oh wait, that's exactly where we are.

People are going to visit MK if they're visiting WDW. Of course. The issue is that people spend so much time at MK relative to the other 3 parks. They give it a second day on their trip or they park hop back to it. And there are valid reasons for that - MK is viewed as quintessential Disney, it has the most attractions, it touches a broad spectrum of themes, its offerings cater best to all age groups. Magic Kingdom has as many rides as EPCOT, Hollywood Studios, and Animal Kingdom combined. Of course that's where people want to spend their time and money.

But this isn't some mythical unsolvable problem. Disney's causing it themselves by refusing to get the other parks up to speed by those metrics.

Imagine of Coco, Encanto, and Villains Land were all announced as an elaborate expansion . . . to Hollywood Studios. Of course you would still visit Magic Kingdom on your trip to see the new expansion at Studios, but the 3-5 hours you spend in that expansion would be spent at Hollywood Studios instead of MK. Maybe you'd even head back to DHS later in your trip to see that stuff again instead of doing a second day at MK.

Don't you think people would be less likely to default to MK on their trip if EPCOT, DHS, and AK each also had 25 rides each?

 

[SplashJacket]

The problem is that if you keep building at MK because it "needs the capacity" you're just going to keep inducing demand at MK specifically. Especially if they continue this trend of building too high-profile rides with too little hourly capacity. Eventually Magic Kingdom ends up with a ton of things to do while the other parks have only a handful of things each . . . oh wait, that's exactly where we are.

People are going to visit MK if they're visiting WDW. Of course. The issue is that people spend so much time at MK relative to the other 3 parks. They give it a second day on their trip or they park hop back to it. And there are valid reasons for that - MK is viewed as quintessential Disney, it has the most attractions, it touches a broad spectrum of themes, its offerings cater best to all age groups. Magic Kingdom has as many rides as EPCOT, Hollywood Studios, and Animal Kingdom combined. Of course that's where people want to spend their time and money.

But this isn't some mythical unsolvable problem. Disney's causing it themselves by refusing to get the other parks up to speed by those metrics.

Imagine of Coco, Encanto, and Villains Land were all announced as an elaborate expansion . . . to Hollywood Studios. Of course you would still visit Magic Kingdom on your trip to see the new expansion at Studios, but the 3-5 hours you spend in that expansion would be spent at Hollywood Studios instead of MK. Maybe you'd even head back to DHS later in your trip to see that stuff again instead of doing a second day at MK.

Don't you think people would be less likely to default to MK on their trip if EPCOT, DHS, and AK each also had 25 rides each?

Making MK a neglected park doesn't solve its issues. MK provides a vastly subpar experience compared to Disneyland, for example.

None of the parks are sufficiently built up.

This is a bit of an either/or, when that's not the reality.

Making the other parks slightly less neglected isn't solving anything.

In an ideal world, they should all get expansion alongside each other. Currently, MK has 29 rides, HS 9, AK 8, and Epcot 12. If MK, AK, Epcot, and HS all grew at the same rate, once Magic Kingdom equals Disneyland's 39 rides, HS would have 19, AK 18, and Epcot 22.

My biggest complaint currently with Tokyo DisneySea is a lack of rides. They're adding four through Fantasy Springs, bringing its total number up to 24.

My point, is all these parks have a long way to go, so wishing expansion away from Magic Kingdom doesn't make much sense. Arguably, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom need it more, but regardless, it's not MK that doesn't.

It seems MK and AK are getting the expansion they need. Who knows about HS.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Making MK a neglected park doesn't solve its issues. MK provides a vastly subpar experience compared to Disneyland, for example.

None of the parks are sufficiently built up.

This is a bit of an either/or, when that's not the reality.

Making the other parks slightly less neglected isn't solving anything.

In an ideal world, they should all get expansion alongside each other. Currently, MK has 29 rides, HS 9, AK 8, and Epcot 12. If MK, AK, Epcot, and HS all grew at the same rate, once Magic Kingdom equals Disneyland's 39 rides, HS would have 19, AK 18, and Epcot 22.

My biggest complaint currently with Tokyo DisneySea is a lack of rides. They're adding four through Fantasy Springs, bringing its total number up to 24.

My point, is all these parks have a long way to go, so wishing expansion away from Magic Kingdom doesn't make much sense. Arguably, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom need it more, but regardless, it's not MK that doesn't.

It seems MK and AK are getting the expansion they need. Who knows about HS.

I think we've got very different ideas about what "expansion" these parks need.

No, Magic Kingdom shouldn't be allowed to languish. I agree that it hasn't seen enough new attractions in the past 30 years. But the kind of growth it needs these days is more about making better use of what it has - things like the Stitch building should not be allowed to sit shuttered, get a nice little attraction in there. Full buildings sit empty in the busiest theme park in the world. Fill them! Freshen up the classics - before the 50th would have been the perfect time to do this. Make better use of the existing spaces first. MK does not need buckets of money poured into expanding the berm behind Big Thunder, fun though that would be in a perfect world. People are already coming in droves.

The other parks are languishing. They need aggressive expansion and they needed it last decade. EPCOT, DHS, and AK all got a Billion dollars each and it still wasn't enough. Keep building new attractions, new facilities - and do it for real, stop replacing things. Push out the berms. Those parks need new and incredible things for people to do and places for them to be between enjoying them. Throw the buckets at the other three parks first while tending the soil of what's already planted at MK.

Then in a decade or more when MK has freshened its infrastructure and EPCOT, DHS, and AK all have attraction counts safely in the double digits, then it will make more sense to make a more meaningful and genuine expansion effort in the MK. But adding another tier to the MK cake while the other parks survive on weirdly expensive crumbs is just gonna compound the issue.

 

[celluloid]

Encanto will not quiet down. It has the same arc as Frozen.

Bruh.

 

[Touchdown]

They need to revive the MK theatre project. That was so perfect as it would suck up a ton of capacity and not induce demand. Main Street not working? Fine throw the theatre on the other side of the train tracks at the circus, make a Tangled show, or use the Adventureland pad and stage Encanto, there are so many other places you can stick a theatre.

 

[Goofyernmost]

They need to revive the MK theatre project. That was so perfect as it would suck up a ton of capacity and not induce demand. Main Street not working? Fine throw the theatre on the other side of the train tracks at the circus, make a Tangled show, or use the Adventureland pad and stage Encanto, there are so many other places you can stick a theatre.

Seems to me that they have a very large space where once stood a very mean Alien and a small, chili loving Alien. There are two theaters there that I bet could be combined into one big one. I'm sure they could find something in all the sci fi properties they have purchased within recent years.

 

[Touchdown]

Seems to me that they have a very large space where once stood a very mean Alien and a small, chili loving Alien. There are two theaters there that I bet could be combined into one big one. I'm sure they could find something in all the sci fi properties they have purchased within recent years.

Except that building has a low roof preventing a proper fly system and said building can’t be retrofitted due to the utilidoors below and the People Mover above. You could take over the parking lot between Buzz and CoP. Lilo and Stich would honestly not be a bad choice.

 

[orky8]

Magic Kingdom needs added capacity. Badly. This would best be served with 3-4 more C/D tickets in my opinion. These don't need to cost a fortune... Some relatively simple dark rides with relatively simple facades would do wonders. Magic Kingdom's capacity has not increased in 30 years despite attendance dramatically increasing in the period - especially in the last 10 years. Tron is the first addition in capacity in 30 years (though, Splash is now out for 2 years and even still, I'm not sure what the total capacity of the park is compared to 30 years ago - I doubt the needle has moved much). It also has a 48inch height requirement.

The other parks, especially Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom need more things to do. Hollywood studios needs at least 1-2 more lands, each with three rides, one being an E ticket and the other two being large capacity rides. Animal Kingdom would probably be ok with an addition to Avatarland and one new land - the Moana boat ride + 2 C/D tickets would probably do. EPCOT would greatly benefit from 2 D tickets being added to world showcase. Again, these don't need to cost a fortune, but Disney can't build a carousel for less than $100M.

 

[fgmnt]

Also, people always mention a 5th gate, and then others will say “but the other parks still need more work.”

A fifth gate is a huge waste of money, because it’s a lot cheaper to expand existing parks and upgrade the existing infrastructure than to start a whole new park’s infrastructure from scratch.

I’d much rather see $5 billion spread across 4 parks than adding a 5th. The themes of the current four allow for pretty much every possible thematic expansion.

Disney adults with no serious understanding of the business and permanent capital and operational commitments (infrastructure, employees) required to establish a fifth park in Florida say it. It's only through the intense and stubborn commitment to expansion at all costs under Eisner that Orlando has 4.

For my October week at WDW, I didn't hit MK once because I was too busying hitting up Cosmic Rewind, Ratatouille, RotR, and MMRR.

I have to imagine that more one-day one-park ticket sales go through MK in a day than the rest see in a month (months? year?). I think people can complain about ticket prices all they want, but imo a one-day one-park ticket to MK *should* be prohibitively expensive. It's gotta be a worse deal for Disney than an AP that just passes into EPCOT or DHS 30+ times a year.