News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
Attractions cast can not just hop from one attraction to another. They are trained typically in 1-3 attractions, but for example, someone who works Tower of Terror can not work SDMT. Merch and QSR are the easiest to move around, but my point was that it doesn’t happen nearly as often as anyone on here thinks
I don't think attraction staff is who needs to be moved around as much. All of the rides are open (ok, refurb, down, etc), so they need to be staffed as is. It's the merch, food-kiosks, balloon people, photographers, security, cleaning staff, guest relations, etc., who are demand dependent.
 

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
Agreed. I don't think IP is a problem, it is IP handled poorly that causes the disconnect for many people. Hence why people loved HEA but are meh about Enchantment. Both are IP fests but one works while the other doesn't. They would be smart to examine why and apply that to all their projects.
Concerning Epcot and IP, I always think of Donald in Mathmagic Land. Donald is a recognizable, fun, and entertaining character that is appropriately utilized to help us relate to and learn about important facts and concepts that are otherwise not seen as being exactly fun. In this respect, the use of IP is appropriate as it furthers the goal of education.

If Donald was forced into the material in a poor manner or in a manner that in no way furthers the end goal of education, in essence being nothing more than a marketing ploy, its a failure.
 
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Sorcerer Mickey

Well-Known Member
I could see putting Villains here, maybe even slot Coco and Encanto in Epcot which would make that park a sizeable draw and probably be cheaper than this expansion? Even the AK project it would seem instead of trying to possibly fit Zootopia in AK and go through any possible retheming, why not do a clone of Shanghai's (saving $) and put it in DHS where it would fit better? I have tons of questions with placemaking from all the blue-sky stuff, but from a strategy and crowd control point, just seems odd. I get more rides in MK equals more capacity, this is 3 major crowd draws too.
How about from a consistent theme point-of-view? Adventureland, Fantasyland, Tomorrowland and then....Coco-land a.k.a. Mexico? Encanto-land...a.k.a Colombia? It doesn't make sense and this is why I don't think they will actually happen. Villains could easily be connected to Fantasyland thematically.

Encanto became a hit only eight months ago. To think Disney has a land all mapped out already is nuts. More likely story is that an imagineer saw how badly D23 was being received and quickly sketched something behind-the-scenes and slipped it under the door for D'Amaro to improvise with on stage.
 

Clyde Birdbrain

Unknown Member
With Tron opening, the priority in MK should be to overhaul the Speedway and make the cars electric. The car industry is moving to EVs and here in “Tomorrow”land, right in front of the state-of-the-art futuristic-looking new Tron coaster, parents and their kids will still be standing in line inhaling the exhaust fumes from these cars that have been the same since the attraction opened in 1971. It‘s not a good look.
 

MadderAdder

Well-Known Member
With Tron opening, the priority in MK should be to overhaul the Speedway and make the cars electric. The car industry is moving to EVs and here in “Tomorrow”land, right in front of the state-of-the-art futuristic-looking new Tron coaster, parents and their kids will still be standing in line inhaling the exhaust fumes from these cars that have been the same since the attraction opened in 1971. It‘s not a good look.
It’s such an easy refurb too. Wonder if it could be sponsored even? This also feels like a decade late.
 

SNS

Active Member
All of these "average guests don't care about theming/details/non-IP attractions" claims... are you trying to say that average guests are dumb hicks who will eat up anything Disney tosses their way so long as there's an IP slapped on it?

I get the impression the average person just thinks theme parks are just a bunch of random stuff shoved together without any cohesiveness to it. You can kind of see this in fictional depictions of theme parks in cartoons.

And when it comes to some of this stuff, it's not exactly mind blowing for those that do think about it a little more. Like yes we can see how the Zootopia city would be out of place in Animal Kingdom but a city surrounded by nature is hardly unheard of and well the citizens are talking animals...
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I don't think attraction staff is who needs to be moved around as much. All of the rides are open (ok, refurb, down, etc), so they need to be staffed as is. It's the merch, food-kiosks, balloon people, photographers, security, cleaning staff, guest relations, etc., who are demand dependent.
Even those types of roles can’t just be moved around. There are different training requirements. Different roles are part of different unions. There are different pay scales. Just getting the right costume would be an issue.
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
Even those types of roles can’t just be moved around. There are different training requirements. Different roles are part of different unions. There are different pay scales. Just getting the right costume would be an issue.
MK turkey leg sales people have a different union than DAK? Aren't the costumes just S, M, L, XL?
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
MK turkey leg sales people have a different union than DAK? Aren't the costumes just S, M, L, XL?
You’re just not comprehending the complexity of WDW. Someone who works at Pecos Bill could pick up at Woodys Lunchbox. But neither of those people could pick up Satuli, or Docking Bay 7. Also when they work those other locations they are doing bussing, trash, drink filler, etc, because they don’t have the training required for that specific location. Not all character attendants can do all characters, etc. Its not as simple as you would like to believe it is.
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
You’re just not comprehending the complexity of WDW. Someone who works at Pecos Bill could pick up at Woodys Lunchbox. But neither of those people could pick up Satuli, or Docking Bay 7. Also when they work those other locations they are doing bussing, trash, drink filler, etc, because they don’t have the training required for that specific location. Not all character attendants can do all characters, etc. Its not as simple as you would like to believe it is.
What characters are at QS? It's just people taking burger orders. It's like being at McDonalds. (...and I like Pecos Bills).
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
I don’t want to waste time typing back and forth with you as you’re not understanding what I’m saying
I get there are some specialized cast members, but there are plenty of roles that are similar enough to allow for moving personnel from one park to the other. Guest Relations does not require additional training, as talking down an irate parent is the same.
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
I get there are some specialized cast members, but there are plenty of roles that are similar enough to allow for moving personnel from one park to the other. Guest Relations does not require additional training, as talking down an irate parent is the same.
The “some” is a larger number than you and many on here believe, is all I was trying to get across. For example even within your Guest Relations example, some cast that work the Blue Guest Experience Team umbrellas are not trained to work in a normal Guest Relations lobby and vice versa. There are 70,000 cast members at WDW and it is a super complex operation.
 

MadderAdder

Well-Known Member
Even when I worked at Target, the expectation and allotted hours to effectively cross train people was a joke. I can’t imagine Disney in a labor shortage having that much freedom and time to cross train enough cohorts to try and legitimize the argument for easy CM musical chairs.
 

GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
You have it completely backwards. It’s the guests/customers that do not care about those things. WDW management care about making money, full stop. They wants guests in the park, spending. If transitions, interconnectedness or cohesion were the draw to people coming and spending, they would exploit it to the hilt. But it’s not. Those things matter to niche message board super fans. Not the general public who is filling up the park every day. This company has more analytics data for its customers based on viewing habits, surveys, magic band data, ect. If the market truly wanted those things, that’s what they would be providing, but it doesn’t.

No one has ever posited that land transitions are what pull guests into a park and get money out of their pockets. A lot of people were tying themselves in knots here to decide how Disney would handle transitioning from Frontierland to Coco Land to Encanto Land to Villains Land and the answer is that they won't because they don't care about transitions. That's all I was saying.

You can say guests don't care about those things, but there are tons of theme parks in the world that don't have cohesive lands with nice transitions, and yet, the most popular theme parks in the world are Magic Kingdom, Disneyland and Tokyo Disneyland....all of which have those things. So maybe they do care about it and they just don't realize it.

But since you brought it up, the market does not know what it wants. Disney's job is to tell its guests what they want and always has been. Guests are not experiential entertainment designers. They are not entertainment professionals. Disney got along fine for decades and became the top dog in themed entertainment without the terabytes of market research data they now have at their fingers, and even with all that data, they still don't deliver what guests really want, which is a frictionless experience. The guest experience is worse than it ever has been.

Having all that data hasn't helped them make better creative decisions either, as evidenced by Sunday's ultra-bizarre applause-o-meter pitch session with the Chairman of Disney Parks, Experiences and Products. All that data and they're just guessing at what attractions and lands they should build.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
You have it completely backwards. It’s the guests/customers that do not care about those things. WDW management care about making money, full stop. They wants guests in the park, spending. If transitions, interconnectedness or cohesion were the draw to people coming and spending, they would exploit it to the hilt. But it’s not. Those things matter to niche message board super fans. Not the general public who is filling up the park every day. This company has more analytics data for its customers based on viewing habits, surveys, magic band data, ect. If the market truly wanted those things, that’s what they would be providing, but it doesn’t.

The guests do most certainly care about those things, they just don't consciously know it. Disney is what it is because of the some total of 1000's of details that most people don't consciously notice on an individual level.
 

Dan Deesnee

Well-Known Member
Good luck lol.

So none of the reasons that essentially prove demand is below what Disney wants are valid? Giving huge discounts is a sign of strong consumer demand?

Interesting take.

Most of all, we know Disney has not publicly raised capacity, so nearly everyday being available means they aren't at capacity and people generally don't go on Disney trips with less than a month or two planning.

I will enjoy the low crowds though and appreciate your well wishes.
 

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