News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Starship824]

I'm becoming uncertain over what manufacturer is doing the BTM retrack. I wouldn't be surprised if it's Dynamic Attractions since they did the retrack at Disneyland, or even Vekoma. But I'm hearing some people say, of all firms, it's going to be Intamin. I learned of this rumor coming from other sites that Disney and Vekoma had a falling out due to the parks running more trains than the manufacturer intended on GOTG and TRON, which might explain why Tokyo's new Space Mountain will be from Intamin (other than the fact that Tokyo Disney is owned and operated by OLC and that this new SM could have a drop track element).

This Intamin rumor has me concerned. The only "mine trains" they've ever made have downscaled trains with the wheel bogeys bracing the outside of the track, instead of inside like on classic Arrow and Vekoma coasters. Is this retrack more than what it seems, making BTM into an entirely new coaster credit? Or would Intamin just fabricate the track, trains and all to look identical to how it looks and operates right now? I hope it's the latter. I mean, it's probably gonna be the latter.

I know this sounds really crazy right now and might just be an outlandish rumor. It's just causing me some unwanted excitement. Regardless, I feel it's more likely to be Dynamic or Vekoma as the manufacturer for this project.

When did this rumour of vekoma not wanting to work with Disney come from?

 

[Delta-7]

When did this rumour of vekoma not wanting to work with Disney come from?

Can't be sure, but there's been talk about it on ParkFans.net. I'm not sure if I can believe it either.

 

[headintheclouds]

Does anyone know an estimate or guess of when they plan on closing BTMR.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

Unless something has changed very, very recently, it's not Intamin.

PREMiERdrum, a Cedar Point local.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I learned of this rumor coming from other sites that Disney and Vekoma had a falling out due to the parks running more trains than the manufacturer intended on GOTG and TRON

That doesn’t really make sense. Disney using their own ride controls is not new but there are only so many blocks on the circuit. Running too many trains would mean putting more than one train in a block at a time.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Vekoma is still happy to take Disney’s money. They are well aware of how Disney operates its coasters.

A company we will never see in the parks is Bolliger & Mabillard.

 

[Andrew25]

I learned of this rumor coming from other sites that Disney and Vekoma had a falling out due to the parks running more trains than the manufacturer intended on GOTG and TRON, which might explain why Tokyo's new Space Mountain will be from Intamin (other than the fact that Tokyo Disney is owned and operated by OLC and that this new SM could have a drop track element).

I sincerely doubt Vekoma will do anything to harm their relationship with the mouse, especially over how many trains they run. GOTG and Tron are already designed with more than enough sufficient block zones to operate at Disney's desired efficiency.

A company we will never see in the parks is Bolliger & Mabillard.

B&M has two newer family models that could lend themselves well to Disney projects actually... Penguin Trek at SWO is something I can see taking over Space Mountain with its ability to fit into compact spaces.

5 years ago I would have laughed at a B&M inside a Disney park, but they've been offering newer products now that can fit Disney's goals.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I sincerely doubt Vekoma will do anything to harm their relationship with the mouse, especially over how many trains they run. GOTG and Tron are already designed with more than enough sufficient block zones to operate at Disney's desired efficiency.


B&M has two newer family models that could lend themselves well to Disney projects actually... Penguin Trek at SWO is something I can see taking over Space Mountain with its ability to fit into compact spaces.

5 years ago I would have laughed at a B&M inside a Disney park, but they've been offering newer products now that can fit Disney's goals.

I’ve never known them to be flexible enough to work with Disney’s theming demands. Even Universal has soured on B&M come over to Vekoma. (Intamin and Mack at UEU, right?).

 

[tanc]

Villains land is all I could ask for, but it needs to be Fantasy Springs level of detail. Every possible ounce of imagination they can put in without cutting budget. I just don't know how feasible that is though. We know they can do it, it's just if they're willing to invest into it. Fantasy Springs I think practically costs as much as DisneySea in its entirety to build so it's going to be incredibly expensive.

But BBTM has so much potential, MK could be the definitive castle park if they bring enough to the table I think. The walk ways at MK are getting so crowded that at this point, I think Tom Sawyer has to go. It could really alleviate crowding issues. It practically almost feels like a hazard with how many people crowd the streets sometimes.

 

[DisDude23]

I think Tom Sawyer has to go. It could really alleviate crowding issues. It practically almost feels like a hazard with how many people crowd the streets sometimes.

I absolutely agree. FL is my least favorite park of the park for a few reasons but one of them is how crowded the area always feels. Feeling up ROA and freeing up all that space could open a lot of doors for whatever development they decide to do in the future and give that side of the park some much needed breathing room.

 

[Delta-7]

Villains land is all I could ask for, but it needs to be Fantasy Springs level of detail. Every possible ounce of imagination they can put in without cutting budget. I just don't know how feasible that is though. We know they can do it, it's just if they're willing to invest into it. Fantasy Springs I think practically costs as much as DisneySea in its entirety to build so it's going to be incredibly expensive.

But BBTM has so much potential, MK could be the definitive castle park if they bring enough to the table I think. The walk ways at MK are getting so crowded that at this point, I think Tom Sawyer has to go. It could really alleviate crowding issues. It practically almost feels like a hazard with how many people crowd the streets sometimes.

Don’t touch ROA and Tom Sawyer’s!!! That island’s one of the few places in the park where you can just relax and get away from the stress.

They should at least cut down on the river a little bit to make way for expansion like DL did. Besides, with new areas going in behind Big Thunder and potentially looping around to the Haunted Mansion, that’ll certainly alleviate congestion in a corner of the park, right??

 

[Patcheslee]

I’ve never known them to be flexible enough to work with Disney’s theming demands. Even Universal has soured on B&M come over to Vekoma. (Intamin and Mack at UEU, right?).

Wonder what RMC could do with it.

 

[DisneyDean97]

I’ve never known them to be flexible enough to work with Disney’s theming demands. Even Universal has soured on B&M come over to Vekoma. (Intamin and Mack at UEU, right?).

Agreed, the only time B&M was slightly flexible when it came to theming was Efteling's Baron 1898, and their custom supports for the lift hill.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

I’ve never known them to be flexible enough to work with Disney’s theming demands. Even Universal has soured on B&M come over to Vekoma. (Intamin and Mack at UEU, right?).

It's not as much themeing as it is operations.

WDI typically does just enough of the engineering and installation load so that they can legally be listed as the manufacturer of record. This gets them around regulations requiring parks to operate the machinery "as directed by the manufacturer."

Vekoma and others are happy to sign away much of their liability, but this is an area where B&M reportedly won't budge.

 

[TheDisneyParksfanC8]

No major changes to what I've shared earlier, though things do appear to be morphing a bit as they come into focus.

I still expect Moana (AL) and Coco (BBTM) to be the first shovels moving at MK. Still not optimistic on a Phase II. Less convinced of major expansion at DHS.

After a few months feeling like Scrooge McDuck jumping into a vault of coins, reality appears to be setting in.

DHS will probably get some sort of expansion, but It might not be until after BBTM and the AK expansions are wrapped up if what you are saying is true.

 

[danlb_2000]

I'm not opposed to attractions with screens... but MK has proven that you don't need them to be popular. A park (and just about every single theme park) should prioritize immersive environments.

I don't think MK should get a simulator attraction, just wouldn't feel right in the park.

If used properly, screens are just another tool in the Imagineering toolbox. I see no reason to tell an Imagineer that they can't use this specific tool in MK.

 

[fgmnt]

It's not as much themeing as it is operations.

WDI typically does just enough of the engineering and installation load so that they can legally be listed as the manufacturer of record. This gets them around regulations requiring parks to operate the machinery "as directed by the manufacturer."

Vekoma and others are happy to sign away much of their liability, but this is an area where B&M reportedly won't budge.

I also think Universal has proven that a B&M ride could not handle how Disney would want to operate it (into the ground). B&M has a great business trading on high quality engineering for regional theme park operators, they have no motivation to go into business with Disney.

On BTM, it's probably most apt to consider whoever is working on the retrack as the fabricator. WDI is telling them exactly what to make and will handle installation and testing, and the manufacturer is likely not lending any engineering expertise outside of how the track gets made.

 

[HauntedPirate]

There is zero need to actually shorten the river if it is too expensive. They can make guest areas mostly outside the RR berm if they wanted to to create space north of the RoA

Land north of RoA? You aren't terribly familiar with the RCID land suitability map, are you?

 

[Andrew25]

If used properly, screens are just another tool in the Imagineering toolbox. I see no reason to tell an Imagineer that they can't use this specific tool in MK.

Should have been specific, I meant screen-only attractions. I would love to see the Na'vi River concept expanded at MK as it can provide incremental effects to a primarily physical experience.

While FoP ride system can fit a Coco experience... it'll just feel too similar. There's not many other motion simulator concepts that are unique enough to prioritize IMO.

 

[doctornick]

Land north of RoA? You aren't terribly familiar with the RCID land suitability map, are you?

The land there ranges from marginally suitable (surrounding the railroad) to marginally unsuitable (further out). What am I missing exactly?

Sure, there would need to be some remediation to make everything work to be built upon, but it's not like removing a river - used for water management - is some simple task either.