Before Frozen Fatigue sets in...

[Gabe1]

I am going to disagree with you.

I have seen a lot of boys at princess meals and meet and greets. I guess no one told them they weren't supposed to be there.

Conversely, pre-New Fantasyland, most of the attractions at Disney World had themes that traditionally skew male. Even now, there are really very few things devoted to princess at Disney World. Let's break it down:

Rides:
The Little Mermaid
Frozen (coming soon)

Shows:
Enchanted Tales With Belle
Beauty and the Beast Live
Voyage of the Little Mermaid

Granted, there are princesses in the parades and there are princess meet and greets. But there are tons of non-princess characters in the parades and meet and greets as well.

Can girls like Toy Story? Sure. But there are very few female characters in the cast and the ones that are there are clearly in supporting roles. Boys can like Tangled or Frozen which figures much more prominent male characters than Toy Story or Lion King features female characters.

Sorry if this comes across like I'm going off on you. This isn't directed at anyone in particular. But the idea that Disney World is in any danger of becoming repellent to boys and a haven to girls is a myth.

Well yeah you are going off on me but that is OK. Who said boys were not suppose to go? My question is if they don't embrace the Prince role in Princess Films list the equivilent choices for boys where they don't have to play the side kick in a princess movie. List the shows that are not related to princesses and geared toward boys. List the attractions built in the New Fantasyland that are not Princess themed? Where are the Pirate fireworks? Cars fireworks?

But then I'll turn it, how many character meals are there for movies like Cars or Toy Story, Pirates. Is it because the boys prefer to go to a Princess meal or is it because there are very few buffets for boys. The Turtles were wildly popular when my DS was small, was there a character meal for them? I saw the young boys in my area come to my door trick or treating. They were not dressed as characters from Princess Movies.

If a boy wanted to ride an attraction geared towards boys and not princess films in the New Fantasyland which would you pick? Are the boys picking Mermaid or is it because Snow White and Little Mermaid Princess were all that were built. I didn't have any Dwarf boys or Gastons showing up at my door for trick or treating.

Enter the Castle what do you find? Princess meal and Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique. Yeah there will be boys in the castle however if half was pirate themed and half was princess themed where do you think most grade school boys would pick? Norway another great example for a few decades. Why another princess meal there when it could have been imagineered to pirates or vikings easily?

Wouldn't Diamond Horseshoe in Frontierland be a wonderful place for Woody to have a character meal? Toy Story still sells and sequel but it won't happen because it isn't a princess line.

Toy, Lion King are gender neutral films and are not face characters. When there is a meet and greet how often is Andy a male face character ever available in a meet and greet?

You list out all the Princess shows, exactly my point. I miss the army men in the parade at DHS. Default attendance, no choices for families of boys but to go to the Princess Shows. Now the castle lighting is converted to Princess, it is rumored the Christmas Parade will go Princess. Wishes go Princess, Norway going from Vikings and Trolls to Princess. I believe it is more than Frozen Fatigue it is Princess Fatigue. Parents with boys really need to spend some time at Uni just to knock the visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads. Uni developed the parks with Minions and Harry that have wide appeal to boys and girls, men and women. Uni Orlando onto something Disney can't grasp.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Who Framed Roger Rabbit? grossed more than The Little Mermaid according to Wikipedia

Sorry, I did my research from a not-too-reliable source.. It wasn't listed!

Although, Roget Rabbit never seemed to have a huge craze though. .-.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Pictures_films#1980s

 

[tcool]

Sorry, I did my research from a not-too-reliable source.. It wasn't listed!

Although, Roget Rabbit never seemed to have a huge craze though. .-.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Pictures_films#1980s

With out Roger Rabbit we wouldn't have had Toontown or Toontown Online I think not so sure about that could be wrong.

Tron and Honey I Shrunk the Kids got a sequel....not a very good one, but it counts. Andthey both are/had attractions (unless Shanghai got rid of their plans for it, or I could be wrong although there was the tron in Peoplemover at Disneyland and "Tron"Track)

 

[copcarguyp71]

Here is how well their marketing plan works...I have never seen the movie and I am sick to death of it!

Of course a 43 year old married male is not the "demographic" they are going for but 40-something year old mommies and daddies do hold the purse strings.

 

[BuddyThomas]

The Frozen ice show is playing in NYC right now and there was an article in the paper the other day that some seats are going for as high as $450.00, and more with the service charges. And the thing is still selling out. If I had to sit through that, I would claw my own eyes out of my head, but clearly a lot of people are not ready to "let it go".

 

[Figments Friend]

Disney doesn't seem to have any very successful movies from the 80s other than The Little Mermaid...

*Oliver & Company*, released in November of 1988, was considered a big success back at that time.
Part of that success came from the public suddenly keen on animated features thanks to that Summer*s smash hit *Who Framed Roger Rabbit*.

Another aspect of *Oliver*s success was the merchandising ( Sears had a huge toy tie-in ) and also the then A-list celebrity list of voice talent used in the film to appeal to adults.
It is difficult for someone seeing the film today who was not around at that time in the 80s to understand the impact and appeal of hearing Billy Joel and Bette Midler doing voices for *cartoon characters*.
*Oliver* was a hit.

Before *The Little Mermaid* was released a year later, several at the studio felt it would not top the success of *Oliver*.
That is how successful it was considered at that time, Pre-Renaissance.
Of course we all know what happened...and *Mermaid* exceeded all expectations.

 

[Figments Friend]

Sorry, I did my research from a not-too-reliable source.. It wasn't listed!

Although, Roget Rabbit never seemed to have a huge craze though. .-.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Walt_Disney_Pictures_films#1980s

*Who Framed Roger Rabbit* did indeed create a worldwide craze.
As soon as the film was released, the public went nuts for it.
Nothing like it had ever been seen before, and at this point nothing like it will ever be seen quite like it again.

I remember the summer of 1988 well.
*Roger* was a huge hit. HUGE. Instantly became a pop culture phenom at the time.
The film was extremely popular, and there was tons of merchandise everywhere, not just the Parks.

The film was also responsible for kicking off a craze in the US for traditional animation that may never be matched.
Don Bluth*s *An American Tail* started it off in 1986...but it was *Roger* in 1988 that really sparked off a serious interest and re-appreciation of classic animation in the general public*s eye in a BIG way.

Hollywood immediately tried to clone it*s success, and jump on the bandwagon of the sudden *live action film with animation is cool* craze that took place by releasing a bunch of crappy knock-off features in the years that followed *Roger*.
*Cool World* and *Space Jam* were two live action-animated features that were directly inspired by that success.
Neither really made a impact and both were rather mediocre to say the least...

As far as a *in Park* craze...yes, Roger Rabbit enjoyed his time in the early 1990s.
He used to have a very strong presence at the Disney - MGM Studios from when the Park opened in May of 1989 until the late 90s.
He was a un-official Mascot for the Studios back then, and there used to be a *Acme Warehouse* near the Backlot Tour.
Some fun photo ops were located inside, as well as a lot of large props and vehicles from the film.
Roger was front and center for many parades and shows at both DL and WDW during that time period as well.
Everyone seemed to adore him, and he would still be welcome today.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Of course a 43 year old married male is not the "demographic" they are going for

Tragically, it was a 43 year old married male who conceived Disneyland, as a place to amuse himself instead of just his daughters.

 

[Figments Friend]

So getting back to the topic...

Mega-presence tie-ins at the Parks related to a *new hit* IP.

There have been many, but the most widespread ones i can think of as far as covering the Parks in Attractions, Entertainment, *destination* Merch locations, merchandise spreads, and general Park marketing and outside-the-berm public craze inducing..here is the short list :

The Lion King ( by far..)
Lilo & Stitch ( all post-film release ..another case of it*s success being a *surprise* to the Studio )
Aladdin

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I understand what you point is and find it valid to an extent.

I'm a Mom who took my DS to WDW every year and he was never a Princess loving male kid. What will like families of young boys that are not immersed into WDW like many of us are over all impression of WDW be? Will there overall conclusion be that WDW is all about Princesses and geared towards families with girls? Will subsequent visits be to Uni because there is more for families that have boys? I can see this Freeze everything backfiring on a demographic of guests over the long haul.

Princesses are pretty gender specific unlike Lion King and Toy Story.

I think the classic princesses were gender-neutral fairytales. They have been Barbiefied only recently. :'(

I fear that WDW is being subjected to marketeering, marketeers doing what they think counts for refined understanding of their market: segmentalising it. The MK is being turned into the girl park. DHS into the boys park. With Cars, Toy Story, Star Wars - their three male IP's, in order from young to old age segment. It is quite disheartening if you dislike yourself or kids being labelled and adressed in a gender-specific manner.

 

[StageFrenzy]

*Cool World* and *Space Jam* were two live action-animated features that were directly inspired by that success.
Neither really made a impact and both were rather mediocre to say the least...

What do you mean Space Jam didn't make an impact?!?! I remember it being huge and it launched the most 90's song ever! You have a turrible turrible opinion.

 

[FettFan]

Too late.

As many times as I rode Maelstrom, I never noticed the ship in the background behind the bear.

 

[Gabe1]

I think the classic princesses were gender-neutral fairytales. They have been Barbiefied only recently. :'(

I fear that WDW is being subjected to marketeering, marketeers doing what they think counts for refined understanding of their market: segmentalising it. The MK is being turned into the girl park. DHS into the boys park. With Cars, Toy Story, Star Wars - their three male IP's, in order from young to old age segment. It is quite disheartening if you dislike yourself or kids being labelled and adressed in a gender-specific manner.

Snow White was gender neutral? Not when I was growing up, neither was Batman or Superman.

 

[tirian]

Snow White was gender neutral? Not when I was growing up, neither was Batman or Superman.

I don't think the princess fairy tales from 1937–1992 were gender-neutral so much as acceptable for all. Boys weren't going to dress like Snow White for Halloween, but the dwarfs offered enough to keep their attention. I remember ALL kids in my kindergarten class bragging about how many times they saw Beauty and the Beast in theaters. The movies weren't specifically marketed to girls back then.

 

[MarkTwain]

Well yeah you are going off on me but that is OK. Who said boys were not suppose to go? My question is if they don't embrace the Prince role in Princess Films list the equivilent choices for boys where they don't have to play the side kick in a princess movie. List the shows that are not related to princesses and geared toward boys. List the attractions built in the New Fantasyland that are not Princess themed? Where are the Pirate fireworks? Cars fireworks?

But then I'll turn it, how many character meals are there for movies like Cars or Toy Story, Pirates. Is it because the boys prefer to go to a Princess meal or is it because there are very few buffets for boys. The Turtles were wildly popular when my DS was small, was there a character meal for them? I saw the young boys in my area come to my door trick or treating. They were not dressed as characters from Princess Movies.

If a boy wanted to ride an attraction geared towards boys and not princess films in the New Fantasyland which would you pick? Are the boys picking Mermaid or is it because Snow White and Little Mermaid Princess were all that were built. I didn't have any Dwarf boys or Gastons showing up at my door for trick or treating.

Enter the Castle what do you find? Princess meal and Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique. Yeah there will be boys in the castle however if half was pirate themed and half was princess themed where do you think most grade school boys would pick? Norway another great example for a few decades. Why another princess meal there when it could have been imagineered to pirates or vikings easily?

Wouldn't Diamond Horseshoe in Frontierland be a wonderful place for Woody to have a character meal? Toy Story still sells and sequel but it won't happen because it isn't a princess line.

Toy, Lion King are gender neutral films and are not face characters. When there is a meet and greet how often is Andy a male face character ever available in a meet and greet?

You list out all the Princess shows, exactly my point. I miss the army men in the parade at DHS. Default attendance, no choices for families of boys but to go to the Princess Shows. Now the castle lighting is converted to Princess, it is rumored the Christmas Parade will go Princess. Wishes go Princess, Norway going from Vikings and Trolls to Princess. I believe it is more than Frozen Fatigue it is Princess Fatigue. Parents with boys really need to spend some time at Uni just to knock the visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads. Uni developed the parks with Minions and Harry that have wide appeal to boys and girls, men and women. Uni Orlando onto something Disney can't grasp.

Post of the day!

 

[FettFan]

I don't think the princess fairy tales from 1937–1992 were gender-neutral so much as acceptable for all. Boys weren't going to dress like Snow White for Halloween, but the dwarfs offered enough to keep their attention. I remember ALL kids in my kindergarten class bragging about how many times they saw Beauty and the Beast in theaters. The movies weren't specifically marketed to girls back then.

And then there were Jaq and Gus, whose scenes in Cinderella seem to have taken some inspiration from Tom and Jerry cartoons....

 

[WondersOfLife]

With out Roger Rabbit we wouldn't have had Toontown or Toontown Online I think not so sure about that could be wrong.

Tron and Honey I Shrunk the Kids got a sequel....not a very good one, but it counts. Andthey both are/had attractions (unless Shanghai got rid of their plans for it, or I could be wrong although there was the tron in Peoplemover at Disneyland and "Tron"Track)

Although those weren't very big hits, though. So not a lot of crave came from them.

I guess. I'm 16. I didn't live in that time era. But it doesn't seem to have any evidence of a crave.

 

[WondersOfLife]

*Oliver & Company*, released in November of 1988, was considered a big success back at that time.
Part of that success came from the public suddenly keen on animated features thanks to that Summer*s smash hit *Who Framed Roger Rabbit*.

Another aspect of *Oliver*s success was the merchandising ( Sears had a huge toy tie-in ) and also the then A-list celebrity list of voice talent used in the film to appeal to adults.
It is difficult for someone seeing the film today who was not around at that time in the 80s to understand the impact and appeal of hearing Billy Joel and Bette Midler doing voices for *cartoon characters*.
*Oliver* was a hit.

Before *The Little Mermaid* was released a year later, several at the studio felt it would not top the success of *Oliver*.
That is how successful it was considered at that time, Pre-Renaissance.
Of course we all know what happened...and *Mermaid* exceeded all expectations.

Did not know that. I always thought of it as an okay movie ! I know the original storyline very well. My family does a play.

Still, I see no evidence of it having a huge amount of popularity though. At least online.

 

[WondersOfLife]

*Who Framed Roger Rabbit* did indeed create a worldwide craze.
As soon as the film was released, the public went nuts for it.
Nothing like it had ever been seen before, and at this point nothing like it will ever be seen quite like it again.

I remember the summer of 1988 well.
*Roger* was a huge hit. HUGE. Instantly became a pop culture phenom at the time.
The film was extremely popular, and there was tons of merchandise everywhere, not just the Parks.

The film was also responsible for kicking off a craze in the US for traditional animation that may never be matched.
Don Bluth*s *An American Tail* started it off in 1986...but it was *Roger* in 1988 that really sparked off a serious interest and re-appreciation of classic animation in the general public*s eye in a BIG way.

Hollywood immediately tried to clone it*s success, and jump on the bandwagon of the sudden *live action film with animation is cool* craze that took place by releasing a bunch of crappy knock-off features in the years that followed *Roger*.
*Cool World* and *Space Jam* were two live action-animated features that were directly inspired by that success.
Neither really made a impact and both were rather mediocre to say the least...

As far as a *in Park* craze...yes, Roger Rabbit enjoyed his time in the early 1990s.
He used to have a very strong presence at the Disney - MGM Studios from when the Park opened in May of 1989 until the late 90s.
He was a un-official Mascot for the Studios back then, and there used to be a *Acme Warehouse* near the Backlot Tour.
Some fun photo ops were located inside, as well as a lot of large props and vehicles from the film.
Roger was front and center for many parades and shows at both DL and WDW during that time period as well.
Everyone seemed to adore him, and he would still be welcome today.

Yes I agree. If I had seen it on the list in would have listed it alongside little mermaid. It was a great movie!!

I always find it interesting how looney tunes and Disney characters shared the same movie at one time!

 

[FigmentsFangirl]

The Frozen ice show is playing in NYC right now and there was an article in the paper the other day that some seats are going for as high as $450.00, and more with the service charges. And the thing is still selling out. If I had to sit through that, I would claw my own eyes out of my head, but clearly a lot of people are not ready to "let it go".

I'd pay that. As long as its rinkside and backstacge access after the show, the 450USD is then well worth it to me.