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Rumor BatB Rumor from Screamscape

Tavernacle12

Well-Known Member
I have a hard time imagining Disney bulldozing the original Snow White ride for anything. It’s not impossible, obviously, but I can’t see the core of DL Fantasyland changing outside of upgrades or structural issues.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
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Why are you trying to defend a 'source' which is clearly wrong about a rumor since BatB could not possibly fit where they say it's going? They just don't know their stuff in order to properly vet a rumor. Screamscape obviously does not have a reliable source.
I'm not defending it. On the contrary, I'm actually hoping against hope that this is not true, for the exact same reason you are stating: namely, it can't possibly fit. And more importantly, Snow White and Pinocchio are classics.

You know that 90% of Jack's breaking rumors come from these forums, right?
Well, I do see shots of this site on his videos sometimes.
 

oo_nrb

Active Member
I have a hard time imagining Disney bulldozing the original Snow White ride for anything. It’s not impossible, obviously, but I can’t see the core of DL Fantasyland changing outside of upgrades or structural issues.
I hate to break it to you, but "the original Snow White ride" hasn't existed since 1982, when it was completely gutted and rebuilt to accommodate Pinocchio's Daring Journey construction.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
I hate to break it to you, but "the original Snow White ride" hasn't existed since 1982, when it was completely gutted and rebuilt to accommodate Pinocchio's Daring Journey construction.
I think everyone knows that something that's a "1955 original" contains very little, if any actual 1955 elements. The Railroad and Twain have been refurbed so many times, I bet there's only a few original parts left between them.

No one cares that the current Snow White ride isn't the one that was there in '55- because the New Fantasyland overhaul was a vast improvement and the '83 version of Snow White is a solid dark ride.

We don't care that it's not the original Snow White ride- we'd just care if there's no Snow White ride, or if the ride started getting the PotC treatment.
 

Ismael Flores

Well-Known Member
From what it sounds like they re building in Tokyo it wouldn’t just be an inferior version it would be a completely different ride.
they are just going to repaint the dwarf figures to look like furniture pieces and repaint snow white to look like bell.
the scary forest scene will be used as the scary forest scene with Belles dad. it would be a master piece overlay to make everyone forget about GOTG-MB
 
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egg

Well-Known Member
It's not just the ground square feet calculations that don't make any sense, the vertical elevation doesn't make sense either. The BATB building (as almost all e-tickets are these days) are very high buildings, and putting a building of that height would ruin views down main street toward the castle, as the two building that flank castle would be asymmetrical...and it would further be silly because said building would also ruin the scale of Disneyland's modest castle...and it would dwarf the mr. toad/peter pan complex exactly across the way.

This is why

is practically unfeasible.

The whole premise of Screamscape's post is false. There is plenty of land for Fantasyland, it probably is the land that can be most comfortably expanded at Disneyland.
They seem to not give a flip about sight lines these days. Thankfully there have been no drastically bad examples to point to in DL, but there are bozos within the company who conjured this below mess and the Tron mess, so it could happen.
350594

That being said I doubt this rumor has much validity.
 

Disneysea05

Well-Known Member
At Disneyland, its a matter of building large showbuildings partially below ground level, like Space Mountain and Soarin. Not very possible doing that in Florida and Tokyo.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
CA: 35527.25 feet²
Tokyo: 65193.56 feet²

This is not a totally exact number, but it is roughly that size.
So I noticed from this that the BATB space is 80,000 sq. ft. and the Pooh space is about 65,000. In California, the Snow White/Pinocchio space is about 5,000 sq. ft. less than Pooh (or 2,000 sq. ft. more if you include the whole complex). Do you think there's a chance they may or may not repeat what happened with Pooh?
 

Mr. Johnson

Well-Known Member
So I noticed from this that the BATB space is 80,000 sq. ft. and the Pooh space is about 65,000. In California, the Snow White/Pinocchio space is about 5,000 sq. ft. less than Pooh (or 2,000 sq. ft. more if you include the whole complex). Do you think there's a chance they may or may not repeat what happened with Pooh?
I imagine that the queue space would take up the entirety of Pinocchio with the new BATB (in former Snow White) having a longer boarding time than actual ride time, but the incredibly long exit corridor (à la Mission Space or HS's TSM) will take five minutes (if you run).
 
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mharrington

Well-Known Member
I imagine that the queue space would take up the entirety of Pinocchio with the new BATB (in former Snow White) having a longer boarding time than actual ride time, but the incredibly long exit corridor (à la Mission Space or HS's TSM) will take five minutes (if you run).
The context of my question, actually, pertains to the ride time for Pooh vs. Pinocchio and Snow White. Pinocchio and Snow White run about, say, two minutes, tops, I would say, and Pooh runs about three or four minutes.

My question is, would Disney risk delivering a two-minute Beauty and the Beast ride? If it took up the entirety of the Pinocchio/Snow White complex, the best it would run is about four minutes, I would say, the rough length of Pooh.

To compare it to another dark ride, I think the Little Mermaid ride lasts about five or six minutes. In order to really do justice to Beauty and the Beast as a non-Tokyo dark ride, I would say it should run at least as long as the Little Mermaid ride, if not longer, and the Pinocchio/Snow White space hasn't got enough for it.
 
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Ismael Flores

Well-Known Member
this is what they should do,

get rid of the whole western side of toontown, Build a large show building there. Then remove the fantasyland theater and turn that into a village with a shop and eatery and the queue, load area for the new Beauty and the beast ride.
there is plenty of room as you can see. I have copied and past the show building for IASW and have also included the load area for the flume ride. Obciously the beaty and beast ride would not be a flume. with some alterations the queue and load area can take up more room and add foot space for the ride. The train track would not need to be modified because the ground where the theater is would be leveled off and maybe even lowered a bit if necessary to allow room for the under track ride bypass. Now you have a brand new area with a nice big dark ride, a village area with a meet and greet, eatery and shop. Nothing really would be lost except for the theater that sits empty most of the day.

The Mickey and Minnie mete and greet can be relocated to the eastern side of toontown. Using a modified trolley storage area and the large landscaped hill area next to it which would now be an extended building.( see yellow in picture} If that is not enough room for a Mickey and Minnie meet then what they can do is use the goofy area which I did not remove as well as whatever other area is left around it and turn that into a queue. The facades could be Mickey house. have people queue up in this area and then slowly slope the inside up a bit and create a themed enclosed corridor that cross over the toontown entrance. It would basically be next to the tracks and then connect to the main show room for the meet and greet near the fountain. the orange in second picture can be queue and enclosed themed corridor.

This would basically condense toontown a bit leaving two ride in that small land, roger and Mickey railroad as well as the meet and greet. would eliminate the character houses and would mostly be facades created by theming the showbuilding walls.
 

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nevol

Well-Known Member
Preposterous.

Using very generous amounts of space on Google Earth, the entire west Fantasyland facility; Red Rose Taverne, Pinocchio, Snow White and the Princess Boutique plus the back of house stuff and the remaining patch of blacktop behind this facility, you get 37,500 square feet.

The actual square footage of this existing facility is about 30,000 square feet, but pretending you pushed it out to the boundaries of the planters and dining patio and walkways, you get 37,500 square feet max.

To get something closer to 50,000 square feet you'd need to close all of Princess Fantasy Faire and the attached shop.

If Tokyo's ride is 80,000 square feet, which I could believe based on the scale and space in their Fantasyland expansion area, then this ride would never work in the existing courtyard of dark rides. It could work up in the old Motor Boat Cruise lagoon. But definitely not in any existing Fantasyland space around the Castle proper.
Fantasyland Theater?

Finally this huge amount of land was acknowledged, 7 pages later. Why remove any dark rides or Casey Jr/Storybookland when you have a theater right next door that has more square footage, and underutilized at that, than either of these spaces? The entire parade corridor at matterhorn mall is in need of a refresh. I expect any major fantasyland changes to take place over there (motorboat cruise/north tomorrowland, fantasyland theater, toontown.

this is what they should do,

get rid of the whole western side of toontown, Build a large show building there. Then remove the fantasyland theater and turn that into a village with a shop and eatery and the queue, load area for the new Beauty and the beast ride.
...
This would basically condense toontown a bit leaving two ride in that small land, roger and Mickey railroad as well as the meet and greet. would eliminate the character houses and would mostly be facades created by theming the showbuilding walls.
I look at the size of that site and I see no reason why they couldn't add the beauty and the beast ride exclusively in the fantasyland theater space without having this project affect toontown at all. Any changes to toontown could come from other projects. This would also have the benefit of not requiring any level changes for the purpose of connecting the two properties on other sides of the railroad track.

Separating projects based on the property limitations it is taking over could set some design constraints, but it would encourage each space to be maximized, would force several different projects forward leading to more diversification, and it would increase capacity (combination of more new attractions alongside preservation of existing assets). The show building could fill out that site, and be entered from the same direction as the fantasyland theater today. The castle entrance/bridge found both in florida and tokyo (Tokyo's more life-size, fixing the unsuccessful forced perspective we see at be our guest) could face it's a small world facade to the east. Where I draw the line with this position is where the ride experience/square footage is changed, rather than just the area development (think Pooh). If the ride system/show building fit in the theater space, it would be worth making the necessary changes to the area development/preshow/queue.

If it did need to extend further north, I suppose that the height of the show building and its position further east in toontown would provide the added benefit of taking care of the site line issue that has emerged in that land, which is that the backstage/offstage super structure of galaxy's edge's spires are visible from within the land. The spire's visibility is arguably acceptable if you are of the camp that accepts that disney e ticket wienies are visible all over the park and that anything in the disney theme park bubble/onstage is fair game, nowhere near as serious an issue as having non-disney property intruding in the park, but the spires in question are bleeding visibility of infrastructure usually only visible backstage/outside of a park, like the backside of expedition everest.

And about screamscape, while I agree that they have been successful lately with Disneyland rumors, they used to publish literally anything you would email to them. I used to make stuff up as a teenager and send it to them and they would publish it. This was a long time ago, and I think their vetting of information has changed with the times. Today, forums, and social media have made it easier to find information, find its source, and scrutinize it.
 
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mharrington

Well-Known Member
And about screamscape, while I agree that they have been successful lately with Disneyland rumors, they used to publish literally anything you would email to them. I used to make stuff up as a teenager and send it to them and they would publish it. This was a long time ago, and I think their vetting of information has changed with the times. Today, forums, and social media have made it easier to find information, find its source, and scrutinize it.
Emphasis added. It's those phrases "they have been successful lately" and "used to publish anything you email them" that get me. For all we know, they could be absolutely correct in what's going to happen. Also, I don't know where they found their information on this rumor, so if they changed their vetting of information, then I'm going to assume that it's from a source that knows what it's talking about, rather than be from a source made up by anyone. I just wish I knew what that source is.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Emphasis added. It's those phrases "they have been successful lately" and "used to publish anything you email them" that get me. For all we know, they could be absolutely correct in what's going to happen. Also, I don't know where they found their information on this rumor, so if they changed their vetting of information, then I'm going to assume that it's from a source that knows what it's talking about, rather than be from a source made up by anyone. I just wish I knew what that source is.
The whole point of anonymous sources is that you do not know the source.
 
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