Backlash against Kathleen Kennedy and Star Wars in general

[ppete1975]

This is such nonsense.

Characters in movies shouldn't have sexual orientations? Such differences among characters isn't an "agenda", it's just reality.

Glad you never had a problem with all of the heterosexual characters in Star Wars adding their heterosexual activities to the films.

I was worried about it when I heard them come out with that news last week (get it come out), I really don't care about what people do with their lives, but I don't like it shoved into my face just to make a statement.. (a gay character just because "its cool"). After seeing solo though.. don't worry its a total non issue. Don't let it keep you away, or worry about your children.. its really not even brought up.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My biggest problems with TLJ:

-Luke Skywalker was a old man with his tail between his legs.
-The subplot was atrocious and political by nature. "now it's worth it" - as the resistance is suffering heavy casualties
-Snope is a nobody.
-Rey's parents are a nobody.
-The film makes us think Rey will join Kylo, and based on their chemistry together I thought it would've been an amazing twist - but NOOOOPE
-Superman Leia can float through space
-The purple-haired jihad ending is a thing?

So to summarize...you’re problem is “everything”?

Wait...you liked the chase/running out of fuel thing???!!

 

[ppete1975]

.

Rose Tico – Forced. Her only purpose was to rail against capitalism and deliver her message about animal cruelty. She contributed absolutely nothing. Wait, I take that back. She saved Finn from himself.

Phasma could have been something. How much merchandising do you think Disney lost because of that misguided decision by Kennedy and Johnson?

Lando is the “Ladies Man” of the Galaxy. Remember him meeting Leia the first time? So as younger version he is now pansexual?
QUOTE]
you forget Asian female (everyone has to be included) please do not take that as racist... but to me finn is the token black guy as well and this movie has to do well in every country

see boba fett

I know they said he was pansexual, but honestly I didn't see any difference in his relationship, and luke with artoo or han with chewie... yeah lando is flirtatios but I think that's just his personality... also its star wars people are prob doing aliens and robots I highly doubt people stay in their "lane" but that shouldn't be part of star wars... I'm ok with the boy girl romances that drive the story.. leia padme rey... but the rest I don't really need to hear about.... did you think it distracted from the story? Personally I just felt he cared about the robot, if I hadn't heard the announcement last week (which I think was to get attention for the movie) I wouldn't have thought twice.. but I'm pretty dense lol

 

[Model3 McQueen]

So to summarize...you’re problem is “everything”?

Wait...you liked the chase/running out of fuel thing???!!

It was the only thing that added any urgency to the movie - the fact that the first order was in pursuit and the rebellion couldn't get away. We could argue about that plot but then i'd really just be complaining about the entire movie from start to finish.

 

[NickWilde]

Big Star Wars nerd here. I enjoyed TFA (although I wish the plot didn’t mirror ANH) and Rouge One, as well as certain parts of TLJ. (I haven’t seen Solo yet) And I honestly don’t care if the leads are female of minorities, as long as it’s a natural part of their character and isnt being shoved down our throats/their only trait. However, I do think there are issues with how SW is being treated.

1. Pointless characters/scenes. You know what I’m talking about. Things like the Casino scene and Rose in TLJ. Things that weren’t necessary to the plot.

2. The “Limbo” state of the EU. Ever since the purchase of SW by Disney, the former EU (AKA Legends) has been in a state of limbo. While some things are considered “canon” or have been brought back in some form, such as Thrawn, other important stories such as The Old Republic have been in a kind of limbo. Now I understand making everything past RoTJ to be noncanon, as that would allow them to make the sequels, I don’t understand why they put the axe to everything but the OT, Prequels and TCW. Now I do think some of these additions were welcome, such as the “bleeding” of Sith kyber crystals, but I just want KoTOR, KoTOR 2, and TOR to be canon, and will gladly work to modify them so they fit into the new canon.

3. Too many plot twists. In TLJ, there were MANY unneeded plot twists which only serve as shock value. This can come off as annoying at times, especially things like the death of Snoke before we knew anything about him at all. (That also debunked my theory that Snoke was Palpatine, as he couldn’t be betrayed by his apprentice twice)

4. Oversaruration. We’re getting new SW films every year now. This isn’t a good thing for the fans, as they won’t be as hyped, and therefore less likely to see these films.

5. This is just something personal, but I don’t like what they did with Luke in TLJ. What he’s done just seems so out of character for me, especially trying to kill Ben because of a little darkness, when he still had faith in Vader, who only had a tiny bit of light left in him.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

For anyone concerned about the "strong women agenda", I hear there's a fan edit of the move that edits out all the female characters. It may be more to your liking.

Or try to take solace in the fact that the movies are still filled with strong male characters. Poe, Finn, Kylo, etc. Take solace in the films treatment of males, like Poe, who commits treason and mutiny but is still treated as a hero and leader by those pesky women ("I like that one", "me too").

And the overall backlash? If you're going by internet comments, nobody has liked this franchise for decades. There are always mixed opinions on any movie, but lots of people have enjoyed the new films, just as many haven't. There's never going to be consensus, and the notion that a backlash will lead to a Star Wars franchise that pleases everyone is silly.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It was the only thing that added any urgency to the movie - the fact that the first order was in pursuit and the rebellion couldn't get away. We could argue about that plot but then i'd really just be complaining about the entire movie from start to finish.

Hmmm...so the obvious move to send one of your 20 ships ahead - because you have gas from Exxon - to cut off their one ship didn’t kill the dramatic tension ?

Unfortunately...that occurred to me and it caused some internal issues

 

[righttrack]

My issue with Solo was that it seemed a bit jumbled. Was hoping for a true origin story not a few weeks in the life. Was entertained, but it just doesn't bring the story forward.

The Last Jedi I thoroughly enjoyed.

Rogue One to me was all about the interviews around the film. A real obvious agenda being pursued by anyone who talked there. Let the movie speak for itself. This is how you do a prequel, George Lucas.

The Force Awakens was my favorite of the bunch. Sure Rey and Finn seemed like Mary Sue twins, but that's only because they rushed and made two film's worth of character development into one.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Lando is the “Ladies Man” of the Galaxy. Remember him meeting Leia the first time? So as younger version he is now pansexual?

Do you even know what pansexual means? He's attracted to anyone. The fact he was flirting with Leia does not preclude the character from being bisexual or pansexual in any way whatsoever.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I didn’t even know that there was a “boycott Star Wars” canpaign

It exists among a small number of 'fans' who want the world to think like they do and try to convince everyone that everyone thinks like they do because they hated, hated, hated TLJ (for a number of reasons, some valid, some bat fertilizer crazy).

So, they latch onto any data point to prove that they're right in their criticism and that everyone agrees with them. Except they only latch onto a few data points and ignore the preponderance of evidence that the majority of fans do not think like they do. A few data points, very carefully cherry picked, is not the same as all the data points.

And so, the poor showing of Solo -- poor that is, for a SW movie -- is their new data point to show they're right and everyone agrees with them. But there's a problem with that data point:

1. If Box Office is your proof, then you need to take into account the Box Office of Episodes 7 and 8 and Rogue One. They all passed the billion mark. So, by Box Office numbers, Kennedy is doing absolutely freakin' fantastic!!​

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2. The Box Office isn't done. Both TLJ and Spider-Man Homecoming had disappointing initial weeks. But after two months, they more than made up for it. So, don't count your Box Office until it's closed. You got the whole summer ahead of you. And the polls show fans really liked Solo (more than the critics did). The infamous Rotten Tomatoes users' score went *up* seven points over the weekend. The movie got a good "recommend" score. There's a lot right now pointing to TFA having 'legs' and word of mouth being "I liked it, go ahead and see it."​

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3. Solo is getting good audience scores... not the greatest, but good. So, even if the Box Office is disappointing, Disney/Lucasfilm has that data in their hands. They know the movie wasn't hated. They know it was liked. And so, they're not going to can Kennedy over a movie the fans (the actual majority of fans) liked.​

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4. China hated it!! They also hate the original trilogy and the sequel trilogy. Besides, you can't point to just one country's dislike of a franchise. The first three revived movies all got past the billion mark without China's help. China's disdain is a given for the franchise, not for the individual movies.​

 

[Model3 McQueen]

Hmmm...so the obvious move to send one of your 20 ships ahead - because you have gas from Exxon - to cut off their one ship didn’t kill the dramatic tension ?

Unfortunately...that occurred to me and it caused some internal issues

idk man let's just agree it was a bad movie

 

[Model3 McQueen]

Do you even know what pansexual means? He's attracted to anyone. The fact he was flirting with Leia does not preclude the character from being bisexual or pansexual in any way whatsoever.

Why does this even matter!? - It's not prominent to the story and doesn't excel the plot in any way. It's just like J.K. Rowling saying Dumbledore was gay - who gives a flying rats behind, it has absolutely nothing to do with the story.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Why does this even matter!? - It's not prominent to the story and doesn't excel the plot in any way. It's just like J.K. Rowling saying Dumbledore was gay - who gives a flying rats behind, it has absolutely nothing to do with the story.

First off, I didn't say it matters. I pointed out that it's not at all contradictory to establish the character as being pansexual based on an attraction to Leia.

Why is it every time a character is anything but heterosexual, people have to make a point about it "not mattering" and not being relevant?

Why don't people devote equal time complaining about "irrelevant" heterosexual elements of characters? Rose is attracted to Finn? Ugh, why do they have to rub it in our face that she's attracted to men? I just want them to blow up ships and whoosh their light sabres and pew pew their blasters!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It exists among a small number of 'fans' who want the world to think like they do and try to convince everyone that everyone thinks like they do because they hated, hated, hated TLJ (for a number of reasons, some valid, some bat fertilizer crazy).

So, they latch onto any data point to prove that they're right in their criticism and that everyone agrees with them. Except they only latch onto a few data points and ignore the preponderance of evidence that the majority of fans do not think like they do. A few data points, very carefully cherry picked, is not the same as all the data points.

And so, the poor showing of Solo -- poor that is, for a SW movie -- is their new data point to show they're right and everyone agrees with them. But there's a problem with that data point:

1. If Box Office is your proof, then you need to take into account the Box Office of Episodes 7 and 8 and Rogue One. They all passed the billion mark. So, by Box Office numbers, Kennedy is doing absolutely freakin' fantastic!!​

​

2. The Box Office isn't done. Both TLJ and Spider-Man Homecoming had disappointing initial weeks. But after two months, they more than made up for it. So, don't count your Box Office until it's closed. You got the whole summer ahead of you. And the polls show fans really liked Solo (more than the critics did). The infamous Rotten Tomatoes users' score went *up* seven points over the weekend. The movie got a good "recommend" score. There's a lot right now pointing to TFA having 'legs' and word of mouth being "I liked it, go ahead and see it."​

​

3. Solo is getting good audience scores... not the greatest, but good. So, even if the Box Office is disappointing, Disney/Lucasfilm has that data in their hands. They know the movie wasn't hated. They know it was liked. And so, they're not going to can Kennedy over a movie the fans (the actual majority of fans) liked.​

​

4. China hated it!! They also hate the original trilogy and the sequel trilogy. Besides, you can't point to just one country's dislike of a franchise. The first three revived movies all got past the billion mark without China's help. China's disdain is a given for the franchise, not for the individual movies.​

Everything you were told during the release of last Johnson is coming to pass...mainly angst and diminishing returns.

You have to choose to look at it objectively...it’s not going to alter to make it more “palatable”

So a Marvel movie every 4 months can make a billion...but people are so tired of Star Wars - now 8 films in the last 35 years...that they are “fatigued” with it?

9 fast and furious isn’t tiring, huh?

Maybe it is just fatigue...but WHY are they fatigued?

Lucasfilm and Disney are trying to figure that out and have been doing so since Friday night - rest assured.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

idk man let's just agree it was a bad movie

Ohh...but we DO

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Why does this even matter!? - It's not prominent to the story and doesn't excel the plot in any way. It's just like J.K. Rowling saying Dumbledore was gay - who gives a flying rats behind, it has absolutely nothing to do with the story.

I think it matters because they are bringing it up...if they didn’t, nobody would care.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Rose is attracted to Finn?

Rose is a straight-out stalker. Fan girl gushing. Kidnap him when he fails to live up to ideal. Go with him into certain danger. Refuse to let him sacrifice his life, nearly getting both of them killed to keep him from killing himself.

In Episode 9, everyone should be asking where Finn is. Then cut away to a cottage on Endor where Finn's in a body cast being taken care of by Rose. "You don't remember, Finn? You got hurt. I'm nursing you back to health."

Finn's boyfriend, Poe, will have to save him.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Do you even know what pansexual means? He's attracted to anyone.

He's attracted to any thing. Not just anyone. Could be a toaster for all we know. If you think the interpretation by Billy Dee Williams of Lando in the original trilogy left any opening that Lando was bisexual or pansexual......you're nuts. Ironically Empire and ROTJ were written by Lawrence Kasdan. Ask him if Lucas envisioned the character that way.

It's the son (who was the co-writer on this flick) who wanted to leave his imprint - and he goes on to say: "There's a fluidity to Donald and Billy Dee's [portrayal of Lando’s] sexuality [...] I would have loved to have gotten a more explicitly LGBT character into this movie. I think it's time, certainly, for that, and I love the fluidity ― sort of the spectrum of sexuality that Donald appeals to and that droids are a part of. He doesn’t make any hard and fast rules."

This had nothing to do with character development. It was all about making a statement. Again......that's why there is backlash.

If they wanted to introduce that type of character.....fine.....go ahead. But don't take a defined, existing character, and just change him because you want to make a statement....which is exactly what the Kasdans and Kennedy did.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

First off, I didn't say it matters. I pointed out that it's not at all contradictory to establish the character as being pansexual based on an attraction to Leia.

Why is it every time a character is anything but heterosexual, people have to make a point about it "not mattering" and not being relevant?

Why don't people devote equal time complaining about "irrelevant" heterosexual elements of characters? Rose is attracted to Finn? Ugh, why do they have to rub it in our face that she's attracted to men? I just want them to blow up ships and whoosh their light sabres and pew pew their blasters!

You're not understanding, let me break it down for you. If it has nothing to do with the story, sexual orientation SHOULD NOT MATTER. I don't walk around asking people if they are heterosexual, gay, pansexual, or the 200 different genders some people think they can be. Because I don't care and it doesn't affect me.

I think it matters because they are bringing it up...if they didn’t, nobody would care.

That's sort of what i'm getting at - why should it matter what sexual orientation a character is when it has zero effect on the story itself? Why do the directors / story writers feel a need to do this? Is it politically motivated? Culturally motivated? Nobody should care as it provides absolutely nothing to the story.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

He's attracted to any thing. Not just anyone. Could be a toaster for all we know. If you think the interpretation by Billy Dee Williams of Lando in the original trilogy left any opening that Lando was bisexual or pansexual......you're nuts. Ironically Empire and ROTJ were written by Lawrence Kasdan. Ask him if Lucas envisioned the character that way.

It's the son (who was the co-writer on this flick) who wanted to leave his imprint - and he goes on to say: "There's a fluidity to Donald and Billy Dee's [portrayal of Lando’s] sexuality [...] I would have loved to have gotten a more explicitly LGBT character into this movie. I think it's time, certainly, for that, and I love the fluidity ― sort of the spectrum of sexuality that Donald appeals to and that droids are a part of. He doesn’t make any hard and fast rules."

This had nothing to do with character development. It was all about making a statement. Again......that's why there is backlash.

If they wanted to introduce that type of character.....fine.....go ahead. But don't take a defined, existing character, and just change him because you want to make a statement....which is exactly what the Kasdans and Kennedy did.

You used to have to pay much more in Vegas for that kinda show...

...so I’m told