Avengers Infinity War SPOILER Filled Thread

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Here’s analysis relevant to the thread:

http://variety.com/2018/film/box-of...marvel-cinematic-universe-1202791314/#respond

 

[Gomer]

On Infinity War. I saw it twice this weekend. It was fun for what it was. A perfect on screen reflection of event comics for better and for worse. Lots of great "fist pumping moments" as some like to say. High intensity. But the pacing was a bit too frenetic and the nature of the movie didn't allow room for many of the characters to breath. That being said it was a massive achievement. I don't think this movie could possibly be much better than it was. I think there are just limitations to what can be done with a movie like this.

But one thing bothered me. And maybe I'm just overexposed to industry news or overly cynical, but it was hard to be emotional affected by the ending when many of the characters who turned to dust are obviously going to be coming back. If they had just restrained themselves on Black Panther, Spidey, and Star Lord I would have at least been able to entertain the idea that this might stick. But with those three gone, you know its' getting erased in 4. Too many sequels, and too much money on the line. So it lacks emotional weight that some of the deaths earlier in the film had.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No problem...back on topic. Just wanted to make sure the opinion you were taking that "victory lap" against was a real one and not a straw man.

On Infinity War. I saw it twice this weekend. It was fun for what it was. A perfect on screen reflection of event comics for better and for worse. Lots of great "fist pumping moments" as some like to say. High intensity. But the pacing was a bit too frenetic and the nature of the movie didn't allow room for many of the characters to breath. That being said it was a massive achievement. I don't think this movie could possibly be much better than it was. I think there are just limitations to what can be done with a movie like this.

But one thing bothered me. And maybe I'm just overexposed to industry news or overly cynical, but it was hard to be emotional affected by the ending when many of the characters who turned to dust are obviously going to be coming back. If they had just restrained themselves on Black Panther, Spidey, and Star Lord I would have at least been able to entertain the idea that this might stick. But with those three gone, you know its' getting erased in 4. Too many sequels, and too much money on the line. So it lacks emotional weight that some of the deaths earlier in the film had.

You seem to reflect some of the critics reviews (same who pledged their loyalty to Johnson’s “deep take” that was like a dog chasing it’s ears)...

I do agree a little on the pace...don’t think they planned on how jammed it was till the shooting was done...and Disney/amc will never allow a longer one...

And the end...yeah...it’s obviously a hoax...but I thought they tried to concentrate on two real losses that seem more permenant.

But remember: the joker or penguin always had Batman tied up after last weeks episode and you knew he was getting out in the first scene this week...
...that’s the fun of it. Low point this year...jedi next.

Plenty of “fist pump”...and that’s good. Nobody wanted the falcon to to blow...so they changed it. None of us ever forgot. And Akbar wasn’t a chump...but I digress.

The thing that nobody is giving enough credit for is that this is a 100% a character story with action interspersed. I think that’s gonna be a real strong point in the longterm - which is all that matters. Has there been a Better developed bad guy? Ever?

Magento over many movies...maybe Zod...ras al ghul? Can’t think of one better filled out or performed.

 

[Princess Leia]

No problem...back on topic. Just wanted to make sure the opinion you were taking that "victory lap" against was a real one and not a straw man.

On Infinity War. I saw it twice this weekend. It was fun for what it was. A perfect on screen reflection of event comics for better and for worse. Lots of great "fist pumping moments" as some like to say. High intensity. But the pacing was a bit too frenetic and the nature of the movie didn't allow room for many of the characters to breath. That being said it was a massive achievement. I don't think this movie could possibly be much better than it was. I think there are just limitations to what can be done with a movie like this.

But one thing bothered me. And maybe I'm just overexposed to industry news or overly cynical, but it was hard to be emotional affected by the ending when many of the characters who turned to dust are obviously going to be coming back. If they had just restrained themselves on Black Panther, Spidey, and Star Lord I would have at least been able to entertain the idea that this might stick. But with those three gone, you know its' getting erased in 4. Too many sequels, and too much money on the line. So it lacks emotional weight that some of the deaths earlier in the film had.

I think that if Disney/Marvel hadn’t already released memos about BP, Guardians, and Spidey getting sequels, there would be a larger question mark over their fates. However, Spidey is filming its sequel now, and we know the other two will happen within the next few years. This is where Disney not releasing anything about Doctor Strange was smart. A little maddening (since there was a sequel tease), but smart.

Killing T’Challa and the Peters were shocking moments, but we know their sequels are coming, so the impact is dulled.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think that if Disney/Marvel hadn’t already released memos about BP, Guardians, and Spidey getting sequels, there would be a larger question mark over their fates. However, Spidey is filming its sequel now, and we know the other two will happen within the next few years. This is where Disney not releasing anything about Doctor Strange was smart. A little maddening (since there was a sequel tease), but smart.

Killing T’Challa and the Peters were shocking moments, but we know their sequels are coming, so the impact is dulled.

Anybody out their on 4/26 woulda believed they weren’t making spiderman and black panther sequels? If there wasn’t a memo?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Killing T’Challa and the Peters were shocking moments, but we know their sequels are coming, so the impact is dulled.

They didn’t “kill” any of those characters...I think that’s a misrepresentation. They made them “not exist” in a trick of time and space. And the Dr. already covered that with one line.

They did “kill” two later in the film...I hope they don’t jump the shark on that.

 

[Gomer]

You seem to reflect some of the critics reviews (same who pledged their loyalty to Johnson’s “deep take” that was like a dog chasing it’s ears)...

I do agree a little on the pace...don’t think they planned on how jammed it was till the shooting was done...and Disney/amc will never allow a longer one...

And the end...yeah...it’s obviously a hoax...but I thought they tried to concentrate on two real losses that seem more permenant.

But remember: the joker or penguin always had Batman tied up after last weeks episode and you knew he was getting out in the first scene this week...
...that’s the fun of it. Low point this year...jedi next.

Plenty of “fist pump”...and that’s good. Nobody wanted the falcon to to blow...so they changed it. None of us ever forgot. And Akbar wasn’t a chump...but I digress.

The thing that nobody is giving enough credit for is that this is a 100% a character story with action interspersed. I think that’s gonna be a real strong point in the longterm - which is all that matters. Has there been a Better developed bad guy? Ever?

Magento over many movies...maybe Zod...ras al ghul? Can’t think of one better filled out or performed.

Seemingly pathological need to bash TLJ in every one of your posts aside...

Yes, Thanos was magnificent. He and Thor took the brunt of the character work in what limited time they gave them to have some real character growth.

And I am amazed at how Marvel is evolving in to this new "TV-Like" approach to blockbuster cinema where they let smaller "episodes" do the heavy lifting on character work, and then use the team ups to give us unfiltered action. It's an interesting an unique approach that is clearly resonating in a time when the majority of the movie going public is cooperating in their attachment to the franchise. Something that other people trying to replicate that formula are completely missing in their attempts to create shared cinematic universes.

I love the MCU unabashedly, so I say this with with a bit of hesitation. I hope that no one else follows this formula. It banks on the ability of everyone to see every movie to build full investment. Something that wouldn't necessarily work if everyone latched onto this new format. There just isn't enough time. When done right, you can get all the character and story you need in certain parts and all the mindless fist pumping you need in others. It works as a whole, but not always in isolation. And that is fine as long as it doesn't become the standard for all blockbuster films.

There is also room for movies and franchises that aren't so dependent on wish fulfillment and fist pumping. It doesn't need to be an either/or. You can have movies that are there just to be fun and movies that challenge you. Neither is necessarily a wrong approach. Both can be good and deserving of our time.

 

[Gomer]

I think that if Disney/Marvel hadn’t already released memos about BP, Guardians, and Spidey getting sequels, there would be a larger question mark over their fates. However, Spidey is filming its sequel now, and we know the other two will happen within the next few years. This is where Disney not releasing anything about Doctor Strange was smart. A little maddening (since there was a sequel tease), but smart.

Killing T’Challa and the Peters were shocking moments, but we know their sequels are coming, so the impact is dulled.

I know it doesn't fit the model of getting back to the original Avengers for part 4, but they could have had more emotional impact if any one of those people with he expiring contracts were among the dusted. Black Widow, Hulk, Cap. Just one of them instead of those big two would have been more impactful in my opinion

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Seemingly pathological need to bash TLJ in every one of your posts aside...

Yes, Thanos was magnificent. He and Thor took the brunt of the character work in what limited time they gave them to have some real character growth.

And I am amazed at how Marvel is evolving in to this new "TV-Like" approach to blockbuster cinema where they let smaller "episodes" do the heavy lifting on character work, and then use the team ups to give us unfiltered action. It's an interesting an unique approach that is clearly resonating in a time when the majority of the movie going public is cooperating in their attachment to the franchise. Something that other people trying to replicate that formula are completely missing in their attempts to create shared cinematic universes.

I love the MCU unabashedly, so I say this with with a bit of hesitation. I hope that no one else follows this formula. It banks on the ability of everyone to see every movie to build full investment. Something that wouldn't necessarily work if everyone latched onto this new format. There just isn't enough time. When done right, you can get all the character and story you need in certain parts and all the mindless fist pumping you need in others. It works as a whole, but not always in isolation. And that is fine as long as it doesn't become the standard for all blockbuster films.

There is also room for movies and franchises that aren't so dependent on wish fulfillment and fist pumping. It doesn't need to be an either/or. You can have movies that are there just to be fun and movies that challenge you. Neither is necessarily a wrong approach. Both can be good and deserving of our time.

All my praise and criticism is well deserved. Because I always watch/view things from the longterm perspective and that’s the real brass ring. Including Disney park and corporate direction.

I’m always open to anyone who wants a shot at the title...always.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I know it doesn't fit the model of getting back to the original Avengers for part 4, but they could have had more emotional impact if any one of those people with he expiring contracts were among the dusted. Black Widow, Hulk, Cap. Just one of them instead of those big two would have been more impactful in my opinion

It’s avengers...they can dust after they bring it full circle. You see shortcoming there and I see a sense of history/perspective.

Besides...that was more a guardians/Asgard movie than it was avengers...

The rogue/refugee avengers were a minor - but cool - diversion.

The people on titan was all focused on other properties.

 

[MisterPenguin]

#SuperHeroFatigue

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

#SuperHeroFatigue

Read the article I posted earlier...it’s written around that concept and explains the differences. Good article

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Seemingly pathological need to bash TLJ in every one of your posts aside...

There is also room for movies and franchises that aren't so dependent on wish fulfillment and fist pumping. It doesn't need to be an either/or. You can have movies that are there just to be fun and movies that challenge you. Neither is necessarily a wrong approach. Both can be good and deserving of our time.

I think it depends on the context. It’s very easy for money driven Hollywood to misread/prioritize the wrong factors.

Sometimes fixing what isn’t broke is disastrous. I firmly believe we’ve seen that now done twice by highly overrated movie execs.

 

[Gomer]

I think it depends on the context. It’s very easy for money driven Hollywood to misread/prioritize the wrong factors.

Sometimes fixing what isn’t broke is disastrous. I firmly believe we’ve seen that now done twice by highly overrated movie execs.

And sometimes not diverting fro a successful formula is suicide. Marvel had a successful phase 1. If they had kept making those movies forever, they would have been successful for a while and slowly faded until they were no longer relevant. But the evolved and reinvented themselves with each phase. A MCU movie in phase 3 is unlikely (With the exception of the throw back Dr Strange) to look anything like a phase 1 movie. They didn't need to "Fix" anything, but they knew they needed to change and challenge the existing formula to continue to grow both financially and creatively.

When it comes to art, its always better to take chances than to conservatively stick with a formula. An ambitious failure is much better than a stale success.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And sometimes not diverting fro a successful formula is suicide. Marvel had a successful phase 1. If they had kept making those movies forever, they would have been successful for a while and slowly faded until they were no longer relevant. But the evolved and reinvented themselves with each phase. A MCU movie in phase 3 is unlikely (With the exception of the throw back Dr Strange) to look anything like a phase 1 movie. They didn't need to "Fix" anything, but they knew they needed to change and challenge the existing formula to continue to grow both financially and creatively.

When it comes to art, its always better to take chances than to conservatively stick with a formula. An ambitious failure is much better than a stale success.

Ahhh...I talked about this on another thread last week.

The growing disconnect is that modern movies are not “art” and critics are losing track of what people want from movies.

I don’t dispute your points on marvel...it’s been run well.

The other franchise isn’t the same and it’s being run into nowhere. They neither know where it resonated longterm nor understand the fandom and why they have been loyal.

We shall see. I’m sitting with jacks and aces off the draw.

 

[Gomer]

Ahhh...I talked about this on another thread last week.

The growing disconnect is that modern movies are not “art” and critics are losing track of what people want from movies.

I don’t dispute your points on marvel...it’s been run well.

The other franchise isn’t the same and it’s being run into nowhere. They neither know where it resonated longterm nor understand the fandom and why they have been loyal.

We shall see. I’m sitting with jacks and aces off the draw.

Well, as someone who is deeply embedded in that fandom on a day to day basis, I'd disagree that they misunderstood fandom as a whole, but to keep this on topic...

There has always been a divide in popular entertainment over whether it should be considered art or not. That is not a new problem. The era we are in has made the debate come to a head as people who don't see these works as art have a stronger unified voice, whereas traditionally critics and writers had the platform. Audiences did not. So they would defer to the opinion of those viewing it as art in the absences of outside confirming opinions.

But to rely on only those people who want nothing but fist pumping entertainment is a slippery slope. That kind of thinking would have the Louvre with only Bob Ross and Thomas Kinkaid paintings. And we'd listen to nothing but pop music at Lincoln center. There is a place for mindless entertainment. It can be fun under the right circumstances. But it lacks any real staying power.

The balance that keeps light entertainment artistically grounded is what creates that "goldilocks zone" of popular works. Not so out there the masses can't understand or tolerate it. But also not so mind numbing that we end up with nothing but mindless drivel in our entertainment. Criticism in conjunction with popular opinion provides that.

People should embrace that friction for the balance it provides. Not choose sides and say the other side is alternately out of touch or idiotic. But that's just my opinion. I like art. I like entertainment. I like them more when they go hand in hand.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, as someone who is deeply embedded in that fandom on a day to day basis, I'd disagree that they misunderstood fandom as a whole, but to keep this on topic...

There has always been a divide in popular entertainment over whether it should be considered art or not. That is not a new problem. The era we are in has made the debate come to a head as people who don't see these works as art have a stronger unified voice, whereas traditionally critics and writers had the platform. Audiences did not. So they would defer to the opinion of those viewing it as art in the absences of outside confirming opinions.

But to rely on only those people who want nothing but fist pumping entertainment is a slippery slope. That kind of thinking would have the Louvre with only Bob Ross and Thomas Kinkaid paintings. And we'd listen to nothing but pop music at Lincoln center. There is a place for mindless entertainment. It can be fun under the right circumstances. But it lacks any real staying power.

The balance that keeps light entertainment artistically grounded is what creates that "goldilocks zone" of popular works. Not so out there the masses can't understand or tolerate it. But also not so mind numbing that we end up with nothing but mindless drivel in our entertainment. Criticism in conjunction with popular opinion provides that.

People should embrace that friction for the balance it provides. Not choose sides and say the other side is alternately out of touch or idiotic. But that's just my opinion. I like art. I like entertainment. I like them more when they go hand in hand.

We’ll debate this another time...I’ve been studying the what and why since the late 80’s and early 90’s...just waiting on that book deal...

 

[Sam Magic]

MCU is doing things right. Infinity War proves it. I hope they don't stop.

 

[The Mom]

I've deleted off topic threads. If I accidentally deleted some spoilers I apologize - it's getting harder and harder to keep track of the spolier versus non-spoiler discussions.

 

[RandomPrincess]

Marvel will finally answer our most burning question from A:IW!