Mike S
Well-Known Member
Sharon is Peggy’s neice not her daughter. She can still exist when Steve goes back.
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Avengers Endgame Spoiler Discussion
- Thread starter Princess Leia
- Start date
Mike S
Well-Known Member
With the way they hyped her appearance up with the IW and CM post credits scenes and touting her as one of the big stars of the movie forgive me if I thought we were in for more about her as a character. Growth doesn’t have to be exclusive to their solo movies either as we’ve seen with other heros.
Btw the lack of expansion on the scene where she first meets the Avengers is another huge miss imo.
I mentioned it before but those rumors that the Russos initially didn’t want to include her at all but were almost forced to include her seem true. She’s really shoehorned in and it shows.
DisneyFreak
Well-Known Member
spacemt354
Chili's
I agree -- I really wanted to see her interact with the Avengers much more. She wasn't even in the big team shot when Cap says Avengers Assemble and her role in the final battle could have been played by Scarlet Witch just as easily. Plus her saving Tony could have easily been written as Tony fixes the ship in desperation hour as a callback to the cave in IM1. It does feel like she was shoehorned into the movie.
If they wanted to build on her character they could have -- the Russos have a record of taking established characters and making them more interesting. For example I liked the solo Dr. Strange film but Dr. Strange really grew on me so much more in Infinity War
Mike S
Well-Known Member
In all honesty they could’ve waited for Phase 4 to introduce her and not have her origin in the 90’s. I thought the whole point of that was because she had a good part in Endgame and we needed to see how she started.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Caps ending explained by the Russos. Short and simple.
mcucosmic.com
I assumed this anyway from the get go. He lived in an alternate timeline then just jumped back. They could’ve done a bigger clue to this by showing him wearing the bracelet but whatever.
The Official Explanation For Captain America's Ending in Avengers: Endgame
By far the biggest controversy about Avengers: Endgame since its release has been Captain America’s...
mcucosmic.com
DisneyFreak
Well-Known Member
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
I saw this on Monday afternoon, where it was playing to an almost sold-out theater. Pretty unusual for a weekday.
Overall this was a highly entertaining movie. All of the Marvel movies are, but this one is elevated (much like Infinity War was) by giving us so many great characters and throwbacks that pay off without being too heavy handed.
Ultimately, this movie was satisfying and emotional because the audience cares about the characters. Between the writing and acting, these are more than people in silly costumes.
I was a little burnt out on the MCU after Captain Marvel which felt like "more of the same", but Endgame felt far more engaging. Even at three hours it felt shorter than Captain Marvel did.
I appreciated how they handled time travel, establishing that it's not like Back to the Future where you can go back and change history. It often felt like a cop out in so many movies. If time travel is possible and can change things, it would happen constantly and create chaos.
Will we now be endlessly debating whether Die Hard is a Christmas movie or a time travel movie?
I liked the five year time jump. It wasn't the expected conclusion where everything goes back to the way it was almost immediately.
I liked the slower pace of the movie. The benefit of having so many beloved characters is that you can go a long time without a big action sequence, and still be engaged.
I agree that the family reunions were a bit bloated and could have been cut back. I get that new dad Tony wants to talk about that experience with his own father, but those moments could have been shorter and more subtle. Steve watching Peggy was perfect, without a 5-minute scene where they catch up.
Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans will be missed. You need someone with the RDJ level of charisma to really anchor these movies. Benedict Cumberbatch is my pick to take the "lead".
Paul Rudd is the best comic relief in these movies, followed by Chris Hemsworth. Best comment I saw online reacting to Thor in this movie - "finally, I can say I have the body of a Norse God."
I expected to see more of the entire team together. I thought we'd see more of the returned heroes and not just cameos. Regardless, the return of everyone was never in doubt, but paid off emotionally.
I do wonder why Nick Fury was barely utilized in these movies, considering he was a big part of that original team.
I felt like Tony and Steve got along too well, too quickly. I feel the MCU movies could stand to feel a bit more interconnected in general. Civil War was supposed to be this big falling out between characters but it all just sort of resolved itself with barely a mention.
My one big moment where I had to suspend disbelief was when no one was injured by Thanos firing a hundred missiles and collapsing a building around them. How did no one die in that mess.
I didn't quite buy the notion of the world being a wasteland due to half the population being gone. It felt exaggerated.
I appreciate the marketing for this movie. The main trailer showed us almost nothing. I knew going in that they were using quantum realm suits, that time travel was involved, and that it would likely be the last movie for several major characters. It's great to watch a movie unfold and not feel like you already saw every plot beat in the "Cliff's Notes" trailer.
For anyone commenting on reading spoilers beforehand, it's a reminder that for movies this big (see also, Star Wars), you really need to be careful or just stay off the internet once the movie is on the verge of release. There is a contingent of people who post spoilers everywhere, in completely unrelated discussions, just to be jerks.
Overall this was a highly entertaining movie. All of the Marvel movies are, but this one is elevated (much like Infinity War was) by giving us so many great characters and throwbacks that pay off without being too heavy handed.
Ultimately, this movie was satisfying and emotional because the audience cares about the characters. Between the writing and acting, these are more than people in silly costumes.
I was a little burnt out on the MCU after Captain Marvel which felt like "more of the same", but Endgame felt far more engaging. Even at three hours it felt shorter than Captain Marvel did.
I appreciated how they handled time travel, establishing that it's not like Back to the Future where you can go back and change history. It often felt like a cop out in so many movies. If time travel is possible and can change things, it would happen constantly and create chaos.
Will we now be endlessly debating whether Die Hard is a Christmas movie or a time travel movie?
I liked the five year time jump. It wasn't the expected conclusion where everything goes back to the way it was almost immediately.
I liked the slower pace of the movie. The benefit of having so many beloved characters is that you can go a long time without a big action sequence, and still be engaged.
I agree that the family reunions were a bit bloated and could have been cut back. I get that new dad Tony wants to talk about that experience with his own father, but those moments could have been shorter and more subtle. Steve watching Peggy was perfect, without a 5-minute scene where they catch up.
Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans will be missed. You need someone with the RDJ level of charisma to really anchor these movies. Benedict Cumberbatch is my pick to take the "lead".
Paul Rudd is the best comic relief in these movies, followed by Chris Hemsworth. Best comment I saw online reacting to Thor in this movie - "finally, I can say I have the body of a Norse God."
I expected to see more of the entire team together. I thought we'd see more of the returned heroes and not just cameos. Regardless, the return of everyone was never in doubt, but paid off emotionally.
I do wonder why Nick Fury was barely utilized in these movies, considering he was a big part of that original team.
I felt like Tony and Steve got along too well, too quickly. I feel the MCU movies could stand to feel a bit more interconnected in general. Civil War was supposed to be this big falling out between characters but it all just sort of resolved itself with barely a mention.
My one big moment where I had to suspend disbelief was when no one was injured by Thanos firing a hundred missiles and collapsing a building around them. How did no one die in that mess.
I didn't quite buy the notion of the world being a wasteland due to half the population being gone. It felt exaggerated.
I appreciate the marketing for this movie. The main trailer showed us almost nothing. I knew going in that they were using quantum realm suits, that time travel was involved, and that it would likely be the last movie for several major characters. It's great to watch a movie unfold and not feel like you already saw every plot beat in the "Cliff's Notes" trailer.
For anyone commenting on reading spoilers beforehand, it's a reminder that for movies this big (see also, Star Wars), you really need to be careful or just stay off the internet once the movie is on the verge of release. There is a contingent of people who post spoilers everywhere, in completely unrelated discussions, just to be jerks.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Too quickly? They didn’t get along until after the 5 year jump. Tony exploded at Steve when he first got back. I thought it was understandable that they’d bury the hatchet somewhere in those 5 years.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I think its left vague though for a reason, inference or not, in order for us to imagine our own version of events.The inference is he doesn't jump to that sequence tho.. as he's been there waiting for them and has no tech on him. So the timeline he is in simply converges at that point. It's suggested (IMO) that he's been on one continuous path since Peggy and was just waiting/aging while waiting for that sync up moment again.
Fun thought... does aging Captn America get dusted and restored?
Disney Irish
Premium Member
The problem though is the movie was already 3 hours long. Add her growth story and you're adding another what 30-45 mins to the movie, and pushing almost 4 hours.
So save that for Capt Marvel 2 where they can properly have a fleshed out growth story. Not everything has to be told in a single movie.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
First one is interesting.
Second one would just seem like pandering. Would we be assuming that either no men want to help out the women or that the women are saying no men allowed on their superhero team? Either way one of them come out looking like complete tools. It’s better how Endgame does it by them working together.
bclane
Well-Known Member
No thanks on the first one but a big yes please on the second article. I think that would be amazing!
flynnibus
Premium Member
Nice comments wendy
I felt it was under utilized though... pretty much it serves it's main purpose of giving Tony a kid.. not much else.
I see that as a fallout of Civil War and the accords. This battle was also a conflict for the titans... not puny human interventions. When this went from Loki.. to Thanos.. earth government input pretty much got pushed aside
I think Tony's calling Steve to the mat handled this appropriately for me. He pretty much says 'its on YOU'.. leaves.. and even when they come crawling back.. he still tells them to pound sand. The use of Potts' approval to bridge the gap and settle Tony's perpetual unease about which life to lead is key. Now, why is that so easy for her, now that she has even MORE at stake? That could be argued as 'too easy'... but I like using her as the 'green light' that allows Tony to shift from conflicted... to determined.
The whole Thanos conflict serves as a great distraction away from people's individual conflicts... it's hard to keep focusing on 1-1 petty things when someone is basically saying 'half the universe is on the line'. That's what works for me for the other minor characters. Tony and Steve are painted as the most 'stubborn' if you want to call it.. and they reach a compromise... rather than simply 'forgiveness'.
I felt it was under utilized though... pretty much it serves it's main purpose of giving Tony a kid.. not much else.
I see that as a fallout of Civil War and the accords. This battle was also a conflict for the titans... not puny human interventions. When this went from Loki.. to Thanos.. earth government input pretty much got pushed aside
I think Tony's calling Steve to the mat handled this appropriately for me. He pretty much says 'its on YOU'.. leaves.. and even when they come crawling back.. he still tells them to pound sand. The use of Potts' approval to bridge the gap and settle Tony's perpetual unease about which life to lead is key. Now, why is that so easy for her, now that she has even MORE at stake? That could be argued as 'too easy'... but I like using her as the 'green light' that allows Tony to shift from conflicted... to determined.
The whole Thanos conflict serves as a great distraction away from people's individual conflicts... it's hard to keep focusing on 1-1 petty things when someone is basically saying 'half the universe is on the line'. That's what works for me for the other minor characters. Tony and Steve are painted as the most 'stubborn' if you want to call it.. and they reach a compromise... rather than simply 'forgiveness'.
bclane
Well-Known Member
Four hour special extended edition of End Game confirmed! I’ll be the first in line to buy that 4KBR.
flynnibus
Premium Member
She doesn't need growth... but you could answer things better than "I was busy..." and by participating more as a team rather than "I'll come and go as I see fit". Smug is what they paint her as.. fine.. but what they try to maybe project as "I deal with things bigger than you do" really comes off as simply shortcuts and "dont look behind the curtain"
bclane
Well-Known Member
Yeah I prefer them all working together but I’d love to see the A-Force inaction and definite yes to Secret Wars! That would be epic!
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I actually agree she doesn't really need growth, that was in response to Mike S.
As for the rest, this is where I think Capt Marvel 2 comes into play. They'll show all those "I got bigger things to deal with" moments.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
To me something like A-Force just brings up unnecessary logistical issues that are better left avoided like the ones I pointed out. Just introduce more cool female characters to the overall story like they have been doing for years.
Secret Wars/Invasion would indeed be great.
Seeing it again tonight at 6:20.