Rumor Avengers E-Ticket More Dead Than You'd Think

[Californian Elitist]

Can we get a Film 101 class on genre thread created? I'd even settle for a Freshman English Lit course right now....

Honestly, I was thinking the exact same thing lol. I studied English for my Bachelor’s and my Master’s and briefly was a double-major as both an English and film student as an undergrad. And even saying all that, one doesn’t need to have studied English and/or film to know what’s considered a genre and what isn’t.

Going off the topic of genres, I think it’s important to bring up film and English studies for the sole purpose of challenging the notion that comics/superhero films are “dumb” and not respected.

 

[Californian Elitist]

They may not be as dumb as Fast and the Furious, but they’re still dumb. None of them are that complex and are pretty surface level. That’s not an attack, it’s just what they are.

Okay.

 

[Disney Irish]

Honestly, I was thinking the exact same thing lol. I studied English for my Bachelor’s and my Master’s and briefly was a double-major as both an English and film student as an undergrad. And even saying all that, one doesn’t need to have studied English and/or film to know what’s considered a genre and what isn’t.

Going off the topic of genres, I think it’s important to bring up film and English studies for the sole purpose of challenging the notion that comics/superhero films are “dumb” and not respected.

All true....

One may not like the MCU but "dumb" they are not.

 

[Disney Irish]

I like the MCU. I'm just stating the obvious by saying they're dumb. MCU movies are not high art and that's ok. There's no need to try to pretend they're anything other than popcorn flicks.

No one is claiming they are art house flicks, just that they aren't "dumb".

Whether you realize it or not the MCU has tackled some real world issues within its films, from racism to mental health. They are not "dumb" films.

 

[DanielBB8]

It’s pretty dumb to kill off their major characters after 10 years of build up. Did they run out of storylines? Why do they want to forget their audiences? Marvel fans are pretty recent. With Star Wars, they wanted to kill Luke, Han, and Leia because they felt Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo are better for newer Star Wars stories. That isn't the excuse for Marvel. Their wholesale replacement is working wonders.

Did anyone else beside me that felt Black Widow was dumb? The story was mediocre. It was the worst new Marvel movie.

Tackle? Hardly. At best, they give it a light tap. Falcon and the Winter Soldier isn't Schindler's List. While racism may be an element of the story, it's not depicted in any complex way. Again, these aren't attacks, it's just acknowledging that they're simple movies, which makes sense given that they are for children. And again, that's ok! I like the MCU.

I agree. Did anyone else thought the Sokovia Accords was a great concept that went away in Infinity Wars and Endgame. They don't have to worry about it since they made Hulk into a wimp.

 

[Disney Irish]

Tackle? Hardly. At best, they give it a light tap. Falcon and the Winter Soldier isn't Schindler's List. While racism may be an element of the story, it's not depicted in any complex way. Again, these aren't attacks, it's just acknowledging that they're simple movies, which makes sense given that they are for children. And again, that's ok! I like the MCU.

Well that wasn't the MCU movie I was referring to regarding racism (though that is good example too), Black Panther was. I won't go into the specifics as this forum has already gone in-depth on that subject in other threads, and honestly its not my story to tell.

Tackle doesn't mean trying to solve, its means brought up and discussed in this context.

Here are some other examples of real world issues brought up:

PTSD/Mental Health in Iron Man 3.
Inequity in Spider-Man: Homecoming
Deep State in Winter Solider
Sexism and propaganda in Captain Marvel
Even abusive parenting in Infinity War with how Thanos treated his adoptive daughters Gamora and Nebula.

 

[Disney Irish]

Sorry I don't get the meme reference here. But thanks for the discussion.

 

[Californian Elitist]

No one is claiming they are art house flicks, just that they aren't "dumb".

Whether you realize it or not the MCU has tackled some real world issues within its films, from racism to mental health. They are not "dumb" films.

I’d argue that they are “high art” films. The special effects, cinematography, etc. are top-notch.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

No one is claiming they are art house flicks, just that they aren't "dumb".

Whether you realize it or not the MCU has tackled some real world issues within its films, from racism to mental health. They are not "dumb" films.

I remember being a bit emotionally invested watching Winter Soldier & the part on Civil War when the government was trying to control the heroes free will. America was going through its own political issues when they aired and it felt parallel at times. I initially thought I would hate Winter Soldier as I'm not very political and didn't care much for Bucky, but it's now one of my favorites Marvel films. Sam's Captain America story arc was very telling too and had some good scenes representative of being black in America. Marvel tackling mental health from Wandavision to the results of Thanos's snap were really well done too.

Marvel is a superhero flick but they do have great moments, especially as they expand away from the original Avengers which featured characters who's origins were a bit generic.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I remember being a bit emotionally invested watching Winter Soldier & the part on Civil War when the government was trying to control the heroes free will. America was going through its own political issues when they aired and it felt parallel at times. I initially thought I would hate Winter Soldier as I'm not very political and didn't care much for Bucky, but it's now one of my favorites Marvel films. Sam's Captain America story arc was very telling too and had some good scenes representative of being black in America. Marvel tackling mental health from Wandavision to the results of Thanos's snap were really well done too.

Marvel is a superhero flick but they do have great moments, especially as they expand away from the original Avengers which featured characters who's origins were a bit generic.

I think Winter Soldier is the only sequel of the MCU library that I prefer over its predecessor. I also really loved what was touched on in Falcon and Winter Soldier in terms of African American recognition.

 

[SplashGhost]

So do many newer Marvel movies, quite honestly. Doctor Strange and Captain Marvel come to mind. I've not seen Black Widow or Shang-Chi, but both give me that feeling, as well.

While some of the newer Marvel movies feel generic, the worst of them are still better than almost anything else Disney has put out in recent history. You won't find anything this visually interesting in any of the modern Disney or Pixar animated movies, even if we got stuff on this level with classic Disney:

 

[MisterPenguin]

If you want to reflect on deeper emotional issues being dealt with in an MCU movie, check out...

 

[VJ]

In my opinion, the last excellent live-action movie Disney made was Curse of the Black Pearl. That movie came out in 2003, nearly 20 years ago.

and that was after the production crew basically went all-out on everything against all the odds, said "trust us, it'll work", and disney ended up winning that gamble

they haven't been so lucky afterward, thus the risk-aversion and "safe" live-action movies they know will be a success

 

[Californian Elitist]

and that was after the production crew basically went all-out on everything against all the odds, said "trust us, it'll work", and disney ended up winning that gamble

they haven't been so lucky afterward, thus the risk-aversion and "safe" live-action movies they know will be a success

Yes. The animation-to-live-action films are pretty much guaranteed money-makers because people not only already know the story and characters, but they want to see various depictions of them. Unfortunately, the movies just aren’t good and never live up to their animated predecessors.

 

[Nirya]

No one is claiming they are art house flicks, just that they aren't "dumb".

Whether you realize it or not the MCU has tackled some real world issues within its films, from racism to mental health. They are not "dumb" films.

I don't know if I would say the MCU has actually done a good job at tackling those issues, though. In fact, the biggest issue I have with the MCU at the moment is that it constantly wants to be seen as making a statement on those things but instead ends up missing the mark each time, in part because all the issues have to get solved by punching. Falcon and Winter Soldier stands out in this regard as a show that played at larger ideas but ended with the heroes supporting the bad catalyst while everyone turned to the screen and said "racism is solved now!"

It's why the Loki series was so different, simply because it ended in a conversation (yes there was a fight, but it was very much in service of that conversation). And the weighty ideas brought up were given the room to breathe that they required.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't know if I would say the MCU has actually done a good job at tackling those issues, though. In fact, the biggest issue I have with the MCU at the moment is that it constantly wants to be seen as making a statement on those things but instead ends up missing the mark each time, in part because all the issues have to get solved by punching. Falcon and Winter Soldier stands out in this regard as a show that played at larger ideas but ended with the heroes supporting the bad catalyst while everyone turned to the screen and said "racism is solved now!"

It's why the Loki series was so different, simply because it ended in a conversation (yes there was a fight, but it was very much in service of that conversation). And the weighty ideas brought up were given the room to breathe that they required.

The idea of "tackling" a topic in a 2+hr movie or 30min-1hr TV show is not about "solving" the issue, but rather to bring it to forefront for a period of time. Which then hopes to spark something in the viewers mind that "Hey maybe this is something that needs to be discussed in greater detail".

Also I never got the impression that at the end of F&WS they declared "racism is solved now".

Some people just see them as popcorn films, and that is ok. Others seem them as providing a light on difficult topics that we should be solving as a society. They aren't in themselves meant to solve anything on their own.

 

[October82]

The idea of "tackling" a topic in a 2+hr movie or 30min-1hr TV show is not about "solving" the issue, but rather to bring it to forefront for a period of time. Which then hopes to spark something in the viewers mind that "Hey maybe this is something that needs to be discussed in greater detail".

Also I never got the impression that at the end of F&WS they declared "racism is solved now".

Some people just see them as popcorn films, and that is ok. Others seem them as providing a light on difficult topics that we should be solving as a society. They aren't in themselves meant to solve anything on their own.

And that's the difference - plenty of films (including superhero films) do make meaningful comments on important issues in 2 hours or 30 minutes or whatever their runtime is. I'm glad Marvel films acknowledge that issues exist but it's not notable to me that they do so. It doesn't change them (with a couple of exceptions) from being popcorn films. And that should be okay. There's nothing wrong with a well done summer blockbuster.

 

[Disney Irish]

And that's the difference - plenty of films (including superhero films) do make meaningful comments on important issues in 2 hours or 30 minutes or whatever their runtime is. I'm glad Marvel films acknowledge that issues exist but it's not notable to me that they do so. It doesn't change them (with a couple of exceptions) from being popcorn films. And that should be okay. There's nothing wrong with a well done summer blockbuster.

If you don't see the societal issues that are brought up in the MCU movies and consider them only "popcorn films", that is fine. That doesn't change the fact that they do have them, and are seen and discussed by many movie goers. The fact that several of us here have shown this proves this to be true.

 

[Disney Irish]

Does acknowledging societal issues make a piece of media intelligent?

Well that is the topic that is up for debate now isn't it....

That is up to the individual viewer to decide I suppose. Its already known how you feel, so we can leave it at that.

 

[October82]

If you don't see the societal issues that are brought up in the MCU movies and consider them only "popcorn films", that is fine. That doesn't change the fact that they do have them, and are seen and discussed by many movie goers. The fact that several of us here have shown this proves this to be true.

It seems like you might be responding to an earlier part of the conversation rather than the post you quoted. If you re-read it, I mentioned that the MCU does acknowledge social issues. I don't think they deserve very much credit for that.