Avengers Campus - Reactions / Reviews

[Nirya]

Mobile order saves Disney money, reduces congestion, and most importantly, saves Disney money. So I can see why they would design the place with a mobile-order-heavy future in mind.

Based on my experience at Pym’s today, I would say mobile order doesn’t actually do a good job at reducing congestion, and doesn’t realistically save them a ton of money with how the system is currently implemented. It’s just Fastpass for food atm.

 

[No Name]

Based on my experience at Pym’s today, I would say mobile order doesn’t actually do a good job at reducing congestion, and doesn’t realistically save them a ton of money with how the system is currently implemented. It’s just Fastpass for food atm.

Hmm what went wrong? In theory the line to pick up your food, and the number of CMs they need to have, should be far shorter/fewer than the traditional way.

 

[DavidDL]

Additionally, you were only allowed to Mobile Order once inside the land and Mobile Order times were of course, filled by the time we got there in the evening with our boarding group. Which means anyone with a later boarding group or anyone who decides they’d like to enjoy Pyms for dinner has no choice but to wait in the hour+ line for food. I don’t mind waiting in lines, heck I’m in Disneyland. But this isn’t Indiana Jones or Rise of the Resistance. I just want a pretzel, a soda and a maybe a dessert snack. When you consider that literally every other dining establishment in the resort has at least two registers operating (even during this reopening time) or is built for more AND you consider that this is an entirely new that they Disney must have known was going to have as many people as possible trying to experience it, it just seems unacceptable. Even places that offer mobile order like Docking Bay 7 have multiple registers. Because duh.

Imagine if Wizarding World had opened after much fanfare and hype, and Universal only decided to build one Butterbeer register for every Guest trying to visit it. You could say, oh just Mobile Order it, but then you realize you’re not allowed to until you are inside the land AND once you’re there all the time slots are gone and if you want your butterscotch soda, you need to wait upwards of an hour for it simply because of poor planning on Universal’s part. Anyone who would think that’s not a dumb decision would truly baffle me.

 

[Nirya]

Hmm what went wrong? In theory the line to pick up your food, and the number of CMs they need to have, should be far shorter/fewer than the traditional way.

So, in theory, the way a mobile order system works is you place an order to be picked up at a designated time, and when you get in the area and your time comes up, you push the button to say you're here, and when the app says your food is ready, you walk right up and pick up your prepared order and go on your way. This is how mobile ordering works for apps like Grubhub, DoorDash, and the like.

Theory, however, is not how Disney is running this system. The mobile order system instead works like a Fastpass that ends up requiring the same amount of CMs as the traditional way. The first problem is that when the app tells you your order is ready, it's a lie. It actually just means you are now free to join the mobile order queue, at which point you then wait in a line to get to the serving station, at which point they will then put your order together. Nothing here is actually different from the standby line, and if your order includes something that isn't mass-made, then you're stuck waiting for it to be made just like if you were in standby. I know this for a fact, because at Pym's we sat at the serving counter for 5 minutes with two of our three items while they went and made our third. And lest you think this is a uniquely Avengers Campus problem, we had the same issue at Karl Strauss Brewing. We grabbed an 11:20 window (which meant we could enter that virtual queue at 11:15) and got stuck in a line that was longer than the standby one.

But it gets to the problem that the system requires multiple queues despite, theoretically, not requiring that at all. Instead of having a cashier at the front, that CM is instead shifted to the entrance to the land and has to work crowd control. The system itself is also set up in a way that, realistically, you need multiple CMs outside to manage the standby line and mobile order line, especially as the mobile order line has created multiple queues as a result (I watched one poor beleagured CM have to wander this line that had formed at Tasting Kitchen full of people who said they were there for their order window and sitting on "preparing order" while a second CM was working the standby line).

It's hard for me to give Disney the benefit of the doubt on this system and that they're "tweaking things" going forward, because this was how the system was working prior to the shutdown as well, it just wasn't a huge deal because they didn't push it as the main path forward for eating. Now that they are, it's incredibly clear that the system is not designed for this level of usage, and it just leads to a bunch of angry guests. I'm not even sure this is even more profitable for them in the long run, as I can't imagine they're processing more people than if they just had registers only.

 

[Nirya]

Ok, so I'm going to do two review posts here, one for Spider-Man, and one for the land as a whole.

Let's start with Spider-Man, and I did really enjoy the ride. It's a fun time, especially with a group, and the way the cars are set up means you feel way less self-conscious about how ridiculous your movements are. I didn't really have any issues with the scene transitions, and as a Marvel fan I really enjoyed all of the little nods to Marvel stuff (the Squirrel Girl one was very good for me and me alone). It's a cute ride, and definitely a much-better secondary offering than Millenium Falcon is in Galaxy's Edge.

That said, I think you have to look at the ride and see if it answers the following questions:

1. Is the ride fun? Yes. This is the easiest question to answer.

2. Is it a good Spider-Man ride? Well, no. Put simply, this is a tech-demo for the motion-control vehicles, and as evidenced by the fact that they sell a piece of ride DLC that changes your thing to a repulsor blast. The ride really lacks the stuff that would make this a Spider-Man ride - the quips, the interactions with other heroes and villains, even just having a ton of interaction with Spider-Man in general. The ride was always going to suffer in comparison to Universal's superior Spider-Man offering, but they could have done much better in this regard.

3. Does it fit into the overall goal of the land? The biggest draw of Avengers Campus, so far, has been the character interactions. Seeing all the various Marvel heroes wandering the land, having various shows or just being around, it does actually make the area feel like a place where the superheroes would actually be at. So it makes 0 sense that the Spider-Man ride, which features you going to various locations in the campus, does not feature a single non-Spider-Man hero on it. This is such a huge missed opportunity, and really make the ride feel detached from the rest of the land in a weird way.

4. Is the ride successful? I think it depends on your definition of successful. As far as providing an enjoyable experience, yes this is a successful ride. When it comes to being a D-ticket (and make no mistake, this is at the very least a D-ticket attraction and it shouldn't be downplayed a a C to make it seem better), it is fine but not the best effort Disney has done. When it comes to being the opening attraction to carry a new land, that's where it falls flat. And that's not a knock on the ride itself, but on the situation it is being placed in by Disney cheaping out on the land.

So yeah, fun enjoyable ride that has some definite flaws that hold it back, but a much better initial showing than Millenium Falcon was.

 

[mickEblu]

Ok, so I'm going to do two review posts here, one for Spider-Man, and one for the land as a whole.

Let's start with Spider-Man, and I did really enjoy the ride. It's a fun time, especially with a group, and the way the cars are set up means you feel way less self-conscious about how ridiculous your movements are. I didn't really have any issues with the scene transitions, and as a Marvel fan I really enjoyed all of the little nods to Marvel stuff (the Squirrel Girl one was very good for me and me alone). It's a cute ride, and definitely a much-better secondary offering than Millenium Falcon is in Galaxy's Edge.

That said, I think you have to look at the ride and see if it answers the following questions:

1. Is the ride fun? Yes. This is the easiest question to answer.

2. Is it a good Spider-Man ride? Well, no. Put simply, this is a tech-demo for the motion-control vehicles, and as evidenced by the fact that they sell a piece of ride DLC that changes your thing to a repulsor blast. The ride really lacks the stuff that would make this a Spider-Man ride - the quips, the interactions with other heroes and villains, even just having a ton of interaction with Spider-Man in general. The ride was always going to suffer in comparison to Universal's superior Spider-Man offering, but they could have done much better in this regard.

3. Does it fit into the overall goal of the land? The biggest draw of Avengers Campus, so far, has been the character interactions. Seeing all the various Marvel heroes wandering the land, having various shows or just being around, it does actually make the area feel like a place where the superheroes would actually be at. So it makes 0 sense that the Spider-Man ride, which features you going to various locations in the campus, does not feature a single non-Spider-Man hero on it. This is such a huge missed opportunity, and really make the ride feel detached from the rest of the land in a weird way.

4. Is the ride successful? I think it depends on your definition of successful. As far as providing an enjoyable experience, yes this is a successful ride. When it comes to being a D-ticket (and make no mistake, this is at the very least a D-ticket attraction and it shouldn't be downplayed a a C to make it seem better), it is fine but not the best effort Disney has done. When it comes to being the opening attraction to carry a new land, that's where it falls flat. And that's not a knock on the ride itself, but on the situation it is being placed in by Disney cheaping out on the land.

So yeah, fun enjoyable ride that has some definite flaws that hold it back, but a much better initial showing than Millenium Falcon was.

You think it’s more fun than piloting the Falcon? It’s definitely more fun than being engineer or gunner.

Am I the only person that that feels that the tech works against itself? Admittedly the tech was the thing that sounded the most fun about the ride but their is a disconnect for me without the tactile component. I don’t totally feel that I’m shooting the webs. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else mention this so I guess I’m in the minority. I think from just a sheer gameplay/ fun perspective TSMM and being Pilot on the Falcon are better. I think many people would disagree that TSMM is more fun but it’s more competitive, is more simple and and not as chaotic. I also don’t find throwing your arms around for 3 minutes to be very fun. With that said, I can see how Spider-Man is more repeatable. Either way, I’m over here wasting my breath on a bunch of skippable rides.

Have they changed the bulbs on those TSMM screens yet? They ve been dim for a few years now.

 

[Nirya]

And now for the land, I'm going to start with a quote from my friend: "Star Wars Land looks way better."

I should note that my friend does not care for Star Wars (I don't think she's seen most of the movies) but is a big fan of the MCU, and that was her main takeaway. And I agree with her - Avengers Campus absolutely suffers in comparison to Galaxy's Edge. Say what you will about the choice to place the land on a new planet rather than a known location like Tatooine or Naboo, but at least they establish a sense of place for the land, and the level of detail put into everything honestly places the land into the grand tradition of great Disney lands. Avengers Campus....does not have that. It is more in the grand tradition of Pixar Pier, with buildings just slapped together without rhyme or reason. It really did remind me of the terrible "neighborhoods" concept Pixar Pier uses, in that this is the Spider-Man area, this is the Ant-Man area, this is for the Guardians, etc. There's a huge lack of cohesion in everything going on here that is to the detriment of the land.

I should add on top here that the setting and buildings are boring to look at. Again, to compare this to Galaxy's Edge, there is no wow moment like rounding the corner and seeing the Falcon, and there's not even a lived-in moment like walking down the bazaar or the transition to the outskirts of the town where the Resistance is. Avengers Campus is just a bunch of square buildings with little to differentiate them beyond some signage. It's night and day stuff, and creates a land that my group was very excited to leave.

I mentioned it in the Spider-Man ride review, but the characters are the clear best part of this land, and the sheer volume of characters available to interact with is the biggest selling point here. Like I've mentioned before, some of the costumes were really good, the Iron Man one was bad enough that I wondered why they even bothered to go with a setting where he's still theoretically alive, and everyone did a good job embodying their characters. My one detracting point is that the shows just grind the land to a halt, and they clearly have not figured out a way to run those shows yet while also moving people through the land in a good way.

Pyms.....Pym's was the biggest disappointment for us as a group. I mentioned earlier that mobile order is a train wreck in its current form, but the food and drinks left a lot to be desired as well. We got all three of the cocktails to try, with the X-Periment being fine if not extremely sweet with no kick despite saying it has habanero syrup, the Particle Fizz being an absolutely-terrible attempt at a hard seltzer, and the Honey Buzz being the clear best option and one I would actually consider ordering in the future. The food was ok as well; I had the PB3 which was the best of the group though messy enough that I'd hesitate ordering it again, one of our group had the Pym-ini which he described as a "poor attempt at a muffaleta" and with a single serving that was half of what I got with my sandwich. Another of the group got the Atomic Fusion Pretzel, of which the buffalo sauce was the clear best part of a disappointing dish.

Here's my overall takeaway: this land is disappointing in a bunch of various ways that are much harder to fix than what we got from Galaxy's Edge. At least with that land, there were solid bones that just needed a few additions (the opening of RotR, a larger restaurant/cantina, entertainment) to really shine as an exceptional land, but having a generally-strong underbelly to work with. Avengers Campus....doesn't really have that. It's a bland land that is carried by the sheer volume of characters, which means that when Disney eventually decides to cut the entertainment budget here, you're just left with a boring, bland land with not much going for it. This isn't even a situation where a rumored Avengers E-ticket would fix things, but merely act as a band-aid. For as much money as Marvel brings into the company, for them to trot out an offering that is barely at the same level of what Universal made over 20 years ago is embarrassing for all parties.

 

[Nirya]

You think it’s more fun than piloting the Falcon? It’s definitely more fun than being engineer or gunner.

Am I the only person that that feels that the tech works against itself? Admittedly the tech was the thing that sounded the most fun about the ride but their is a disconnect for me without the tactile component. I don’t totally feel that I’m shooting the webs. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else mention this so I guess I’m in the minority. I think from just a sheer gameplay/ fun perspective TSMM and being Pilot on the Falcon are better. I think many people would disagree that TSMM is more fun but it’s more competitive, is more simple and and not as chaotic. I also don’t find throwing your arms around for 3 minutes to be very fun. With that said, I can see how Spider-Man is more repeatable. Either way, I’m over here wasting my breath on a bunch of skippable rides.

Have they changed the bulbs on those TSMM screens yet? They ve been dim for a few years now.

This is actually a good point, since I did get to fly the Falcon again yesterday alongside another person in my group. If I was solo flying the Falcon, sure, that would be a more fun experience, but instead I'm stuck yelling at my friend that he needs to get the ship up because we keep crashing into the ground. It ends up being equal parts fun and frustrating, which isn't the best mix. And that doesn't even get into how boring the non-flying spots are (that said, one member of our group loves being gunner because it the least-stressful spot).

Meanwhile, Spider-Man doesn't have disappointing seats, and while there is some teamwork involved, everything has an individual aspect that works. Plus it's fun to make the various movements, and my group ended up with a great joke for the rest of the day as we kept making laser noises while throwing our arms out.

 

[dovetail65]

And now for the land, I'm going to start with a quote from my friend: "Star Wars Land looks way better."

I should note that my friend does not care for Star Wars (I don't think she's seen most of the movies) but is a big fan of the MCU, and that was her main takeaway. And I agree with her - Avengers Campus absolutely suffers in comparison to Galaxy's Edge. Say what you will about the choice to place the land on a new planet rather than a known location like Tatooine or Naboo, but at least they establish a sense of place for the land, and the level of detail put into everything honestly places the land into the grand tradition of great Disney lands. Avengers Campus....does not have that. It is more in the grand tradition of Pixar Pier, with buildings just slapped together without rhyme or reason. It really did remind me of the terrible "neighborhoods" concept Pixar Pier uses, in that this is the Spider-Man area, this is the Ant-Man area, this is for the Guardians, etc. There's a huge lack of cohesion in everything going on here that is to the detriment of the land.

I should add on top here that the setting and buildings are boring to look at. Again, to compare this to Galaxy's Edge, there is no wow moment like rounding the corner and seeing the Falcon, and there's not even a lived-in moment like walking down the bazaar or the transition to the outskirts of the town where the Resistance is. Avengers Campus is just a bunch of square buildings with little to differentiate them beyond some signage. It's night and day stuff, and creates a land that my group was very excited to leave.

I mentioned it in the Spider-Man ride review, but the characters are the clear best part of this land, and the sheer volume of characters available to interact with is the biggest selling point here. Like I've mentioned before, some of the costumes were really good, the Iron Man one was bad enough that I wondered why they even bothered to go with a setting where he's still theoretically alive, and everyone did a good job embodying their characters. My one detracting point is that the shows just grind the land to a halt, and they clearly have not figured out a way to run those shows yet while also moving people through the land in a good way.

Pyms.....Pym's was the biggest disappointment for us as a group. I mentioned earlier that mobile order is a train wreck in its current form, but the food and drinks left a lot to be desired as well. We got all three of the cocktails to try, with the X-Periment being fine if not extremely sweet with no kick despite saying it has habanero syrup, the Particle Fizz being an absolutely-terrible attempt at a hard seltzer, and the Honey Buzz being the clear best option and one I would actually consider ordering in the future. The food was ok as well; I had the PB3 which was the best of the group though messy enough that I'd hesitate ordering it again, one of our group had the Pym-ini which he described as a "poor attempt at a muffaleta" and with a single serving that was half of what I got with my sandwich. Another of the group got the Atomic Fusion Pretzel, of which the buffalo sauce was the clear best part of a disappointing dish.

Here's my overall takeaway: this land is disappointing in a bunch of various ways that are much harder to fix than what we got from Galaxy's Edge. At least with that land, there were solid bones that just needed a few additions (the opening of RotR, a larger restaurant/cantina, entertainment) to really shine as an exceptional land, but having a generally-strong underbelly to work with. Avengers Campus....doesn't really have that. It's a bland land that is carried by the sheer volume of characters, which means that when Disney eventually decides to cut the entertainment budget here, you're just left with a boring, bland land with not much going for it. This isn't even a situation where a rumored Avengers E-ticket would fix things, but merely act as a band-aid. For as much money as Marvel brings into the company, for them to trot out an offering that is barely at the same level of what Universal made over 20 years ago is embarrassing for all parties.

Do you think your assessment would apply to the kids the parents bring?

I am just wondering as I lam let down by your assessment. Your thoughts don't make me want to go to Anaheim just to see this land as I initially wanted to.

It is pretty much known that Disneyland is not like WDW and far more locals go simply because of the shear population in CA around Disneyland than near WDW in FL.

Seeing how many more locals treat Disneyland like a day trip as one would going to a Six-flags outing than a once in a lifetime trip, do you think that effected how Disney approached this land? Possibly weighing the cost of infrastructure to implement your thoughts of how to make it better just wasn't worth the outlay because of their demographics ?

In other words, was it a miss or did they consciously make this land the way it is because they didn't think making it any better would make them any more money.

New things stay popular for a year, great things keep people coming for years while still bringing in new people for years as well. Is this a new thing or a great thing?

 

[Nirya]

Do you think your assessment would apply to the kids the parents bring?

I am just wondering as I lam let down by your assessment. Your thoughts don't make me want to go to Anaheim just to see this land as I initially wanted to.

It is pretty much known that Disneyland is not like WDW and far more locals go simply because of the shear population in CA around Disneyland than near WDW in FL.

Seeing how many more locals treat Disneyland like a day trip as one would going to a Six-flags outing than a once in a lifetime trip, do you think that effected how Disney approached this land? Possibly weighing the cost of infrastructure to implement your thoughts of how to make it better just wasn't worth the outlay because of their demographics ?

In other words, was it a miss or did they consciously make this land the way it is because they didn't think making it any better would make them any more money.

New things stay popular for a year, great things keep people coming for years while still bringing in new people for years as well. Is this a new thing or a great thing?

To answer your questions, no I don't think this was a conscious decision to design the land in this way just because of the local/tourist dynamic at Disneyland, simply because they are designing similar lands for two other parks that don't have those same dynamics. I think this is just how they chose to approach a Marvel area.

I don't think my assessment would apply to the kids viewing the area, but frankly that should be unsurprising. Theme parks in general work for kids, but one of the driving ideas behind the initial creation of Disneyland was that it would be a park that would work for both parents and kids. Avengers Campus does not truly work for parents, but it'll work for kids just fine.

And finally, I think this is more of a new thing than a great thing. Especially if Disney starts making cuts, which will target the thing the land does well first.

 

[dovetail65]

To answer your questions, no I don't think this was a conscious decision to design the land in this way just because of the local/tourist dynamic at Disneyland, simply because they are designing similar lands for two other parks that don't have those same dynamics. I think this is just how they chose to approach a Marvel area.

I don't think my assessment would apply to the kids viewing the area, but frankly that should be unsurprising. Theme parks in general work for kids, but one of the driving ideas behind the initial creation of Disneyland was that it would be a park that would work for both parents and kids. Avengers Campus does not truly work for parents, but it'll work for kids just fine.

And finally, I think this is more of a new thing than a great thing. Especially if Disney starts making cuts, which will target the thing the land does well first.

Well I guess I need see it for myself, but it won't be anytime soon.

 

[CaptinEO]

Based on my experience at Pym’s today, I would say mobile order doesn’t actually do a good job at reducing congestion, and doesn’t realistically save them a ton of money with how the system is currently implemented. It’s just Fastpass for food atm.

The problem is Disney should give you a pickup time and your food should be bagged up and ready at that time.

The silly "come here at this time and then tell us you're here and we'll start to make it" system is dumb.

Can you imagine if a restaraunt did this? Makes no sense. Let me show up when its ready, why waste the customer's time?

 

[Nirya]

The problem is Disney should give you a pickup time and your food should be bagged up and ready at that time.

The silly "come here at this time and then tell us you're here and we'll start to make it" system is dumb.

Can you imagine if a restaraunt did this? Makes no sense. Let me show up when its ready, why waste the customer's time?

It doesn’t even work that way, because you hit the button and say you’re here, and then they don’t start putting together your order until you reach the counter, and even then if you ordered something they don’t batch-make, then you’re stuck waiting.

 

[CaptinEO]

It doesn’t even work that way, because you hit the button and say you’re here, and then they don’t start putting together your order until you reach the counter, and even then if you ordered something they don’t batch-make, then you’re stuck waiting.

That's exactly what I mean.

It should be like any normal restaruant, the time to pick it up should be when its ready. It should be on the counter ready to grab.

The system they designed makes no sense to me.

 

[dovetail65]

It doesn’t even work that way, because you hit the button and say you’re here, and then they don’t start putting together your order until you reach the counter, and even then if you ordered something they don’t batch-make, then you’re stuck waiting.

Wait is that just at that one place, just at Disneyland, just at the places within a park at WDW. I have used it at WDW at Caribbean Beach Resort I arrived at the counter they handed me my order.

I use the app and click order, then later click" I'm Here, Prepare My Order" when I am a certain distance away. By the time I was at counter I picked order right up.

Is it that at some locations you can't click the " I'm Here, Prepare My Order" when you are too far away because the app knows your location or are you guys not clicking I'm Here, Prepare My Order" until you are actually there by choice? If you wait until you are there then yeah, they don't start making it until you are there. At least that's how the app worked a few weeks ago.

Has anyone been denied being able to click the "prepare I am here" when they were too far a distance away from the pick up location? I was warned that might happen to me but, it didn't happen. I use a VPN on my phone, maybe that's how I got away with it?

 

[Nirya]

Wait is that just at that one place, just at Disneyland, just at the places within a park at WDW. I have used it at WDW at Caribbean Beach Resort I arrived at the counter they handed me my order.

I use the app and click " I'm Here, Prepare My Order" when I am a certain distance away. By the time I was at counter I picked order right up.

Is it that at some locations you cant click the prepare my order when you are far enough away or are you guys not clickking that unitl you are actually there by choice?

It’s the same at other locations as well when we use it. Depending on what you ordered, it can be pretty quick, just because they batch-make a ton of stuff and have them sitting around. Like, we went to Stagedoor that afternoon to get some corn dogs, and we picked up quickly, but these corn dogs were soggy because they’d been sitting in their own grease too long.

Edit: and yeah, you can click “I’m here”, but the system basically puts you in a virtual queue that eventually leads to an actual queue once “Order is ready” pops up. It is an incredibly dumb system in its current state.

 

[dovetail65]

It’s the same at other locations as well when we use it. Depending on what you ordered, it can be pretty quick, just because they batch-make a ton of stuff and have them sitting around. Like, we went to Stagedoor that afternoon to get some corn dogs, and we picked up quickly, but these corn dogs were soggy because they’d been sitting in their own grease too long.

Edit: and yeah, you can click “I’m here”, but the system basically puts you in a virtual queue that eventually leads to an actual queue once “Order is ready” pops up. It is an incredibly dumb system in its current state.

I only used it once and it worked. The reason I used it was only to gain access to Caribbean Beach resort with a Lyft during Covid. They let me in the resort because I had an order, then I proceed to the park using the Skyliner from there. I guess now with far fewer restrictions something like that just isn't necessary.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I don’t know? That’s part of my frustration. Obviously the show is still going so things may be explained better as time goes on but my basic understanding is that when the Avengers pulled their time heists, they created branching timelines at each of these moments. That makes sense in my mind and at the end we’re shown that Cap stayed in one where he married Peggy but then hopped back in his old age using the last of the Pym Particles to pass on the shield (presumably after Peggy dies).

But then the Loki show comes along and claims that they won’t allow even the smallest deviation from the sacred timeline to occur. If you’re late for work and that causes trouble, that leads to a hard reset of that timeline to remove the mistake. I realize what the Avengers did was “supposed” to happen but that doesn’t explain away why the TVA allowed Cap to live in his own, separate one when their first goal is to ensure that there’s only the one. So, the show claims there can only be one.. unless it’s ordained for there to be more? In which case, goal one makes no sense? We also don’t see these alternate ones on their monitors. So, maybe they allow certain ones that are “close enough” to exist, unedited? It just feels like a mess.

But I’d imagine that major changes like a lack of Blip in Avengers Campus would be addressed by them. I agree that the show will do away with the neat and tidy format and branch off into insanity (heck, it already has), but if so, then the TVA will likely ultimately fail their supposed purpose which doesn’t explain them hanging still around Avengers Campus with a captured Loki (aside from the obvious, promotion synergy stuff).

The Avengers didn't create timelines because they put the stones back at the exact moment it was taken. There's also the theory that Cap simply stayed in the shadows because he knew not to disrupt the timeline. In that case Cap was always there in the time line in both forms.

 

[DavidDL]

The Avengers didn't create timelines because they put the stones back at the exact moment it was taken. There's also the theory that Cap simply stayed in the shadows because he knew not to disrupt the timeline. In that case Cap was always there in the time line in both forms.

The directors of the film and other sources have confirmed that yes, they did. Different branched timelines were created from each point that was changed due to a time heist. Putting the stones back protects the future of that new timeline but creates a new one, regardless.

Although the answer to how Cap returned to the main timeline is simply by using his last batch of Pym Particles.

Here is an additional bit of reading that goes into more detail and helped me understand a bit more about Endgame: https://www.thisisbarry.com/film/avengers-endgame-timeline-explained-no-plot-holes/#teams

I understand where your sentiment is coming from, because during the conversation between Hulk and the Ancient One, the visuals seem to indicate that a new timeline would be erased entirely if a stone were returned. But if this were the case, how would returning, say, the power stone to the 2014 timeline in any way return Thanos and his forces (which traveled to 2023 and died) to life in that timeline? It wouldn’t. Perhaps that’s where the TVA comes in.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

And now for the land, I'm going to start with a quote from my friend: "Star Wars Land looks way better."

I should note that my friend does not care for Star Wars (I don't think she's seen most of the movies) but is a big fan of the MCU, and that was her main takeaway. And I agree with her - Avengers Campus absolutely suffers in comparison to Galaxy's Edge. Say what you will about the choice to place the land on a new planet rather than a known location like Tatooine or Naboo, but at least they establish a sense of place for the land, and the level of detail put into everything honestly places the land into the grand tradition of great Disney lands. Avengers Campus....does not have that. It is more in the grand tradition of Pixar Pier, with buildings just slapped together without rhyme or reason. It really did remind me of the terrible "neighborhoods" concept Pixar Pier uses, in that this is the Spider-Man area, this is the Ant-Man area, this is for the Guardians, etc. There's a huge lack of cohesion in everything going on here that is to the detriment of the land.

I should add on top here that the setting and buildings are boring to look at. Again, to compare this to Galaxy's Edge, there is no wow moment like rounding the corner and seeing the Falcon, and there's not even a lived-in moment like walking down the bazaar or the transition to the outskirts of the town where the Resistance is. Avengers Campus is just a bunch of square buildings with little to differentiate them beyond some signage. It's night and day stuff, and creates a land that my group was very excited to leave.

I mentioned it in the Spider-Man ride review, but the characters are the clear best part of this land, and the sheer volume of characters available to interact with is the biggest selling point here. Like I've mentioned before, some of the costumes were really good, the Iron Man one was bad enough that I wondered why they even bothered to go with a setting where he's still theoretically alive, and everyone did a good job embodying their characters. My one detracting point is that the shows just grind the land to a halt, and they clearly have not figured out a way to run those shows yet while also moving people through the land in a good way.

Pyms.....Pym's was the biggest disappointment for us as a group. I mentioned earlier that mobile order is a train wreck in its current form, but the food and drinks left a lot to be desired as well. We got all three of the cocktails to try, with the X-Periment being fine if not extremely sweet with no kick despite saying it has habanero syrup, the Particle Fizz being an absolutely-terrible attempt at a hard seltzer, and the Honey Buzz being the clear best option and one I would actually consider ordering in the future. The food was ok as well; I had the PB3 which was the best of the group though messy enough that I'd hesitate ordering it again, one of our group had the Pym-ini which he described as a "poor attempt at a muffaleta" and with a single serving that was half of what I got with my sandwich. Another of the group got the Atomic Fusion Pretzel, of which the buffalo sauce was the clear best part of a disappointing dish.

Here's my overall takeaway: this land is disappointing in a bunch of various ways that are much harder to fix than what we got from Galaxy's Edge. At least with that land, there were solid bones that just needed a few additions (the opening of RotR, a larger restaurant/cantina, entertainment) to really shine as an exceptional land, but having a generally-strong underbelly to work with. Avengers Campus....doesn't really have that. It's a bland land that is carried by the sheer volume of characters, which means that when Disney eventually decides to cut the entertainment budget here, you're just left with a boring, bland land with not much going for it. This isn't even a situation where a rumored Avengers E-ticket would fix things, but merely act as a band-aid. For as much money as Marvel brings into the company, for them to trot out an offering that is barely at the same level of what Universal made over 20 years ago is embarrassing for all parties.

I think you gave an extremely fair and even-handed review of both the attraction and the land. And I say that as someone who really likes the Spidey attraction exactly as is and loves the land approximately 5,000,000% more than GE. lol I personally find GE cold, silent, unwelcoming and drab in color and lacking anything of substance for me to do once I've gone 'oh yeah, that Falcon ship over there is big, isn't it? Cool.' and gotten my hug from Chewbacca. I have a better themed shopping experience in the DTD Star Wars store than in GE - and a larger selection of Star Wars items to shop for there, too! GE does not lack for space as AC does, so there's no excuse for all the best shopping to be outside the land itself.

And I'll agree with you that AC lives and dies by the characters and shows. With them, it is a joyous, colorful, kinetic, audible, living space. Without them, it would just be some buildings and a cute attraction to ride and then move on from because it's easier to eat elsewhere with more food options - AND SHADE - in other places - and the main store is again in a completely separate land! (This is becoming more of an annoyance to me each time I go - I want the big Marvel shop to be *in* AC, not half a land away in the Backlot unless they commit to making the Backlot/Hollywood Land fully Marvel themed and not just 'all the other Marvel stuff we can't fit into AC'! They really need to open a nice big gift shop in Avengers HQ ASAP even if they don't open the E-Ticket any time soon.)

This is why I hope that TPTB see the continuing value in the character representation - they ARE the heart and soul of the land. Though as you said, the multiplicity of shows does keep interrupting the flow of traffic with something happening every few minutes. I might space the stunt show and warrior training show and Doctor Strange show apart just a bit more - and expect they will be as they continue to adjust and see how it all works with a higher capacity attendance. I know I'm particularly partial to the GOTG: Awesome Dance-Off but I think both it and a perhaps trimmed-down Spidey show with a little less tumbling and more just great Spidey wall-crawling, posing, waving and flying are fine to run more often in the two far outreaches of the land.