MoonRakerSCM
Well-Known Member
My interpretation is that being Loki deals with different timelines that something is going to happen in Loki that is going to spur the next phase of movies which apparently involve multiverse timelines etc.
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Avengers Campus - Reactions / Reviews
- Thread starter BrianLo
- Start date
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Don’t think about it too much. Multiverse can be separate until they are no longer separate. There’s always room for a retcon.Right, and I understand that broader concept. I think where my general confusion for Avengers Campus comes from is the terminology that gets tossed around so loosely. See, I was under the impression originally that Avengers Campus was simply an alternate timeline derived from the original MCU that we all watch in theatres and on D+, a fair assumption given what we see is almost 1:1, talk of timelines in Endgame and which would have raised questions given the TVA's involvement with the land. However, upon further research, it is, as you said, it's own separate universe entirely named the "Marvel Theme Park Universe (MTPU?). Likely with it's own set of branching timelines. Here is a crude illustration for what I mean.
View attachment 564619
See I originally saw Avengers Campus as one of the lines in Yellow. That is where my confusion stemmed from. When illustrated this way, though, things start to make a little more sense. Universes are their own, self contained entities in Blue while timelines exist in Red and Yellow.
But it can be easy to get confused when the shows or creators begin to toss around terms. Miss Minutes mentions that branching timelines lead to a "multiverse war", followed by all those timelines sort of twisting in on each other so one could easily make the assumption that each timeline is it's own sort of universe and thus assume the two are basically one in the same when they aren't. Maybe what she meant is that the branching timelines in Yellow can eventually break the Blue barrier and start a collision course with something like the MTPU? We saw something like this in Loki Episode 2 where they had a set amount of time to prune a timeline before it breaks past a point of no return.
My brain hurts, haha.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
I can't promise that.
While that's certainly sound advice here and at this juncture, the same advice wouldn't apply to bad or lazy story telling if it happened elsewhere so I'm generally against the idea of "just don't think about it" when it comes to things not making sense. Gotta have my guard up to make sure all story tellers know they can't just get away with whatever, haha.I agree, especially with 4 episodes left in Loki and countless other media on the way.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Dude... it's called the 'suspension of disbelief' -- you don't try to nail every literal aspect. You build enough to get the viewer to buy-in.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
I'm only interested in the MPU where Avengers Campus was never built and had been WestCOT for the past 20 years instead.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree but you also have to take into consideration the context and traditions of a story.I can't promise that.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
Right, which is why I say that in this current context and at this current junction (things obviously subject to change as the franchise evolves), I agree and appreciate the clarification these discussions has given me.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
-and if you don't do a good enough job of getting the viewer to buy-in, then that viewer can consider it a failure of storytelling. I don't actively question the Jungle Cruise because they've done enough to get me to buy-in. I cannot say the same for WEB SLINGERS, the immersion break between scenes is too great. -and as @lazyboy97o also eloquently pointed out, suspension of disbelief is not something you actively choose to do. It needs to be earned.
-and I will, hilariously, once again state; that's just me and your mileage will vary. If the "gigantic one second and paper thin the next" warehouses on WEB SLINGERS do a good enough job of immersing you, then you are free to consider the attraction successful at suspending your own disbelief. I'm not required to feel the same.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Sure, but when you are nitpicking the background and need a paragraph to explain why it's a struggle... it's probably not as offputting as you think it is.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
I don't need a paragraph to explain why I dislike what I see. I already know. I type a paragraph to explain to others why I dislike what I see so they can understand where I am coming from. Whether they agree or disagree is up to them but my points are fair and articulated.
-and for the record, my "nitpicking" the background in one scene is separate from the issue I have with what is shown to us as we move between screens. For me, it's the equivalent of passing an elephant on the Jungle Cruise and then having the boat go around behind it so we get a good look at all the hydraulics and robotic skeleton. Yeah. I get the elephant isn't real, I knew that going in. But that's no reason to showcase that to me while I'm trying to enjoy the ride.
Thankfully, Jungle Cruise doesn't do this. WEB SLINGERS does, plain and simple.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Avenger's Campus isn't really supposed to be an alternate timeline. It's all taking place in the main MCU Timeline, just a little... time-fluid as to where and when.
It does sort of beg the question though: if having a time-fluid area doesn't work, and a strictly locked down time line doesn't work, what on earth does?
el_super
Well-Known Member
What do either of those have to do with time frame really? Main Street has a theme and it's time frame is all over the place.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
So, for what it's worth, this is a blurb that explains away Avenger's Campus:
"The Marvel-themed areas or "lands" will be developed simultaneously at the three parks and inspired by the Marvel Cinematic Universe. However, they will instead take place in the "Marvel Theme Park Universe", an alternate universe parallel to it within the Marvel Multiverse in which the Blip and related ensuing events introduced in Avengers: Infinity War did not occur."
So, the Marvel Theme Park Universe (or MTPU) is different than the MCU. It just happens to be inspired by it, not in the main timeline.
I think the time-fluid you're referring to here could also be seen as "no time at all". Which is what most lands Disney builds, are. They can work as works of fantasy because there's normally no hyper-specific context given to us going into them unless Disney says otherwise. At which point, we start to view it through a different lens. I guess it really all comes down to when Disney should decide to say anything at all.
Lands without any sort of time context or canon connections obviously can work just like lands that do have them (they've been doing it since 1955). But the latter needs to work a tad harder to live up to what it claims to be. If they don't want that kind of burden on an area's shoulders, maybe just don't say anything at all, I think. The problem is that Star Wars has a long dedicated fandom that likes having these little things explained to them and the MCU fans are, at this point, used to/expecting everything to be connected in some form or another. Disney catering to this mindset with a new land or attraction isn't something they normally do so there's bound to be some questions or some mess involved. I personally feel that places like GE do a good enough job but Star Wars does have a "cleaner" timeline than something like Marvel does with all it's multiverses of madness.
At this point it's pretty clear to me that AC is so far removed from the actual MCU, that they shouldn't have said anything about timelines or multiverses, at all. Just build it and let Guests enjoy it as the "MARVEL land" the way they enjoy Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, etc. It's basically staking claim as a non-locked area like Fantasyland.. but trying to do so in some sort of convoluted way, haha.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
For me, I think one of the main downfalls of GE is that it IS locked into a "timeline" where it would be impossible for certain major characters to exist. That was a huge flaw, which could be easily retconned, but I don't foresee it happening.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
I don't mind it at all as long as they do a good enough job. I think the concept was certainly a new and bold one, sort of a middle ground between filling your park with IP but trying to do so in a creative way. Then again, I don't harbor the same hatred for the time period Galaxy's Edge is trapped in like some others might. I just like Star Wars. Some of it more than others, sure, but I appreciate them all for different reasons.
-and while I personally do enjoy things the way they are now (except for the lack of entertainment), I actually have the opposite mindset when it comes to what the future might hold for the land. I don't think it's an impossibility for them to do away with the timeline, if they ultimately decide they want to change directions. -and even though I disagree with the concept of "unlocking" the land, I'm mentally preparing myself for it's inevitability. I mean, c'mon, Star Wars is always going to be adding on and evolving and Disney is going to need an area where they can dedicate their ability to "cash-in" on new merch, characters, etc. We've sort of seen it a little bit already with the Mandalorian stuff. I feel like it's only a matter of time before that dam breaks and they just say, "Screw it, no timeline, have at it."
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
I wonder how many times GE CMs have had to field questions from casual SW fans wondering where Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Yoda are.
el_super
Well-Known Member
I suppose so, if that's how you want to see it. It will still be mostly based on what happens in the films.
To be fair though, I don't think Disney has said as much about what time line or multiverse this is supposed to be in, this is all coming from fans asking questions about it's place in the overarching story. People ARE overthinking this, and if they applied that same level of thought you'd start to wonder if Main Street exists in a universe where Lincoln is still president.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Easy answer: They're all dead.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
Congratulations! You just ruined 6 year old Joey's first trip to DL!