truecoat
Well-Known Member
She sure gave Polanski a standing ovation at the Oscars.
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Avengers Campus - Reactions / Reviews
- Thread starter BrianLo
- Start date
She sure gave Polanski a standing ovation at the Oscars.
BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
The problem is when you throw out allegations like “Walt was a racist” you’ve literally lost the room by pushing this hyperbole.I don’t think anyone is holding Walt Disney on a pedestal. He was a known union buster, difficult manager, and possessed McCarthyite views.
Beyond Walt, through any lens of history literally all human beings (including the ones you listed) are deeply flawed. Biographies should be studied and learned from with an emphasis on historical context. But to insinuate that it somehow negates the contributions of these individuals to society as a whole is a form of unhealthy perverse nihilism. People do evolve, in the course of their lives people atone for their errors, and sometimes they don’t. But if all individuals are to be judged by their worst moment(s) in life, none of society’s greatest contributions actually matter.
The Disney company’s allegiances during WWII were quite clear given the pro-US propaganda WDC put out, and there is no evidence that Walt himself was a Klan sympathizer or a proponent of segregationism, the latter of which was a position of many “mainstream” (and yet highly racist) politicians/leaders of his era given the state of the Overton Window during the first half of the 20th century. So to argue (or insinuate) that he was either a racist or a Nazi in his time, let alone ours, is also a stretch.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
That's not the only source that has referenced these events. Its just the one I remembered off the top of my head. And I couldn't recall the name of the book, I just remembered Marc Elliot's name. I always got Mouse Tails confused with Dark Prince and some other books I read back in the 90's.
Ah, the "He can't be racist, he has black friends" line. Were the films produced under Walt racist? Yes. Did Walt take an active role in managing the content his studio produced? Yes. Did Walt attend Pro-Nazi rallies? Yep. Did Walt give a tour to an established Nazi propogandist? Yes he did. Were Nazis racist? I think that goes without saying.
Next you'll be telling me Charles Limburg wasn't racist.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
How is racist a hyperbole? If I called him a monster or inhuman, that would be hyperbole.
And yes, we are in agreement, that ALL humans are flawed. That's what I have been saying. Walt was a product of his time. For better AND worse. He had great ideas and some not so great ideas. Each idea should be taken with a grain a salt, since our world is very different from the world he existed in.
SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
In this case, the black friends that he actively employed at his studio have come out and said he wasn't- so it's a little different then what you're saying.
In regards to World War 2- didn't the Disney studio produce American and anti Nazi Propoganda? Not to mention the studio actually being requisitioned as an army anti aircraft base. If you can use biased and outdated writing to slander Mr. Disney, I can use a far more recent article from a museum dedicated to the guy's legacy to counter the Nazi sympathizer angle- The Walt Disney Studios and World War II
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Which is why Walt employed these two Jewish brothers for decades, paid them very handsomely to write all his favorite songs, and kept putting them on TV. Because Walt actually hated them and thought Hitler was right?
BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
If not hyperbole, at best it’s a gross mischaracterization. I’d still argue hyperbole because without context a statement like “Walt is a racist” or “Walt is a Nazi” could be presumed to mean an entirely different thing particularly in the time and setting under which Walt lived.
For context, Walt lived through the era of Hitler/Goebbles and known racists like George Wallace and Bull Conner. A study of Walt’s life would reveal that while his work did rely on some commons cultural tropes that could likely be deemed inappropriate by today’s standards, there is no evidence that as an individual he did fit under the conceptual understanding of a “racist” or “Nazi” by the mainstream standards established of his time, let alone even arguably the standards of ours in 2021.
While Walt may have “hosted” Nazis as a means to get films into Germany into in the 30s, Walt and the company had also courted many diverse political leaders/dictators including the Shah of Iran, and even today continues to get flak for its comfortable relationship with dictatorships in China and elsewhere, yet I wouldn’t call Bob Iger or Chappie a CCP puppet.
The business side of the company is apolitical, and has always been such. As others noted, when the war effort started in earnest, the WDC made overt propaganda films to support America and the allies.
It's way off track, but I think you were referring to Charles Lindbergh, the first person to fly solo across the Atlantic nonstop.
Limburg is a cheese.
While we're at it. Our ambassador to the UK before the war, Joseph P Kennedy (JFK's dad), thought Hitler was a great guy before the shooting started.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Crappy discussion for a crappy land
el_super
Well-Known Member
A racist in his time? Maybe not. A racist in our time? Ehhhhhh. We've had enough discussion about Song of the South, Jungle Cruise, Tiki Room and Lincoln to establish that, based on a 2021 understanding, Walt was at least incompetent when it came to race relations. He was a shrewd businessman who kept a lot of his personal feelings to himself, but the content of the studio and the parks of the time speaks for itself.
I wouldn't go so far as to say he's a racist, but if some people want to believe that, I wouldn't try to stop them either.
BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
Hence the use of the word “arguable” for 2021. I also did mention the very evident cultural tropes Walt and the early team advanced (whether knowingly or unknowingly) in their day.
Lincoln’s sins aside, he is largely celebrated as having undoubtedly had a hand in advancing the forward movement of the nation during the civil war which is why his placement on Main Street as a unifying American force at least seemed appropriate.
Such is the conundrum of judging historical figures (and their accomplishments) by modern purity tests. Taken to its logical conclusion, will soon find no contribution worth celebrating as the individuals behind them will fail to line up to our present day standards.
Anyway, back to Avengers Campus... wonder if it will open with the park?
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
This is clearly all relevant to Marvel Land...
Uhm... yeah, I got nothing.
Uhm... yeah, I got nothing.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
No one’s talking about Marvel in this thread because nothing relevant has popped up from Disney. And so now people are using this thread to discuss Abe Lincoln and to question Walt Disney’s character.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Anyway, back to Avengers Campus... wonder if it will open with the park?
I doubt it will. Just going off what I had said previously, theme park openings are usually planned out strategically to increase attendance/revenue, and unless they are worried about not hitting even 25% of their capacity at reopening, there would be no reason to open it until they can benefit from the increase in visitation.
It does sound like they may be adding some WandaVision / SpiderMan photo elements to the park or Downtown Disney soon, so at least there is some movement on keeping Marvel in the forefront. I think if they wanted to tie in the opening to the release of the new Spiderman film, they may wait until December, unless that too gets pushed back.
Hard to tell right now.
DisneyEthan
Active Member
Do you guys think the new Spidey attraction will be similar to the Mario kart ride?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Slow and disappointing? Absolutely.
LOL what did I walk into???
I thought 'wow, a lot of discussions since I last left, maybe some big news arrived somewhere.' Was not at all prepared for what I was about to read lol. It was interesting at least, I'll say that. As a black person, I have my own thoughts about things, but I'll leave it alone. The thread has already been derailed enough.
As for AC, judging by some of the latest pictures, it looks pretty complete now, at least the outside portions. I hope we get some better pictures of it soon but I have a feeling now whenever the park does open this will open with it!
I thought 'wow, a lot of discussions since I last left, maybe some big news arrived somewhere.' Was not at all prepared for what I was about to read lol. It was interesting at least, I'll say that. As a black person, I have my own thoughts about things, but I'll leave it alone. The thread has already been derailed enough.
As for AC, judging by some of the latest pictures, it looks pretty complete now, at least the outside portions. I hope we get some better pictures of it soon but I have a feeling now whenever the park does open this will open with it!
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I think it will open with the park too. Why keep it closed? It already will be opening one full year or more after its original grand opening date of July, 2020.
And by opening this Midway Mania-esque D Ticket with modestly high capacity (at least for this era, not the 20th century), it can help bump up the park capacity to allow more people in and still qualify as 25% Capacity for Sacramento.
They can't run the Hyperion Theater, and all other attractions will be severely limited on capacity, so the more rides they can have operating the better.
And honestly, it's a family D Ticket shoot 'em up dark ride. It's not worth too much hype.