Avatar Land...think Disney regrets the idea?

[Incomudro]

I'm sorry I exaggerated. It was announced in 2011 and is said to open in 2017. To me that's a good portion of a decade of coarse it's assuming it opens on time. In any case, lets just say 5 years. I'm not hating or trolling. I'm simply discussing the point that many projects although planned do not make it through the planning or even construction phase. I have followed theme parks and especially WDW for a very long time and I have become accustomed to not accepting something as fact until it's pretty much finished. This is simply a lesson I have learned from history especially WDW history. If indeed like the question this thread asks "Does Disney regret Avatar" is true I am simply pointing out that it isn't built yet and that doesn't mean it will end up being built. If they truly come to regret the decision it simply doesn't have to happen.

I have often commented in the past that the theme parks often miss out on a lot of the hype surrounding new IP's because they wait such a long time to develop attractions. They wait to make sure it's something that's going to hold up over time, movies come and go but it's not so easy to forget about a physical theme park attractions. I think the timeline of this project is somewhat telling. The attraction is set to open the year following the new movies release. Meaning should the movie be a big hit they will be able to capitalize off of it very quickly. However that timing also gives them the benefit to feel out the situation as they go and if they decide to make some last minute changes they can. I think this is a smart approach, and could be a very good model for handling future IP's

I agree very much with your second paragraph.

As for your first paragraph, have there been any examples of Disney getting this far into a ride and abandoning ship?

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Mik

Except if it was Beastly Kingdom there wouldn't be a simulator. The main ride would be a roller coaster with a fire breathing animatronic Dragon.
View attachment 78061
I still want to see this happen one day. There is still that huge plot of empty land behind Asia......

Mike, where did you find this art???

 

[s8film40]

I agree very much with your second paragraph.

As for your first paragraph, have there been any examples of Disney getting this far into a ride and abandoning ship?

Here is an example.
http://epcot82.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-could-have-been.html

 

[twebber55]

Here is an example.
http://epcot82.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-could-have-been.html

how bout we make a bet....if avatar is completed you leave this message board and if it gets changed I leave this message board

 

[s8film40]

how bout we make a bet....if avatar is completed you leave this message board and if it gets changed I leave this message board

I never said it wasn't going to be completed. My track record of WDW predictions is pretty good but not perfect. Everyone thought I was crazy when I said Hyperion Wharf wasn't going to happen. My opinion is just leaning slightly more in the direction that it won't or will end up being something else. But I will set a reminder and we can both come back and discuss this in 2017, right or wrong it will be fun to come back and compare our opinions to what actually happens!

 

[Mike S]

Mik

Mike, where did you find this art???

Google. It's a limited edition Imagineer pin. Apparently only 300 were made and I own one of them.

 

[Matt_Black]

I never said it wasn't going to be completed. My track record of WDW predictions is pretty good but not perfect. Everyone thought I was crazy when I said Hyperion Wharf wasn't going to happen. My opinion is just leaning slightly more in the direction that it won't or will end up being something else. But I will set a reminder and we can both come back and discuss this in 2017, right or wrong it will be fun to come back and compare our opinions to what actually happens!

If it was just Disney, then I'd agree. However, as they are working with James Cameron and 20th Century Fox, if they don't get it completed, there's quite possibly penalties or such that would have to be paid. There's more incentive to get this done on time than usual.

 

[dstrawn9889]

I agree very much with your second paragraph.

As for your first paragraph, have there been any examples of Disney getting this far into a ride and abandoning ship?

no, just plans that never happened... apart from a soundstage-style building being built.
now there have been blue-sky imagineering abound... to the point of declaring something is going to be built, but no groundbreaking that i have seen.

 

[GoofGoof]

Here is an example.
http://epcot82.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-could-have-been.html

Point taken on this specific example. I still think it's a different situation because those buildings were added as part of building a whole new park and then due to budget issues shifted to a potential phase 2 of EPCOT WS that sadly never happened. This was more an example of a cutback then a cancelled project. They still built EPCOT WS and the Germany and Japan pavilions. Is there any other time when a new construction project in one of the parks got to the point of vertical construction and then was simply canceled? There are whole books of blue sky WDI ideas that were designed but never built. I can't think of any that were this far along then cancelled.

TWDC is managed based on Wall Street expectations. Iger and his execs have been referencing Avatarland in almost every earnings call and public speech talking about the P&R segment. I can't see them being willing to admit they made a huge mistake and go to the street and tell analysts that they screwed up and were canceling this project. You don't throw away half a billion dollars on a project without the stock price taking a hit. No way Iger does this even if he is sitting in his office right now reading this thread and saying "yes, I definitely regret this decision". The ship has sailed. We just have to hope they don't cut the budget before major construction is complete. If the boat ride gets the axe that would be a real shame.

I never said it wasn't going to be completed. My track record of WDW predictions is pretty good but not perfect. Everyone thought I was crazy when I said Hyperion Wharf wasn't going to happen. My opinion is just leaning slightly more in the direction that it won't or will end up being something else. But I will set a reminder and we can both come back and discuss this in 2017, right or wrong it will be fun to come back and compare our opinions to what actually happens!

Hyperion Warf was delayed/canceled about 6 months after it was announced. They started demolishing some PI clubs before that, but there was never any new construction that started. That project is different too since it revolves around signing 3rd party vendors to leases. At the end of the day Hyperion Warf is still technically happening. It's just called Disney Springs now instead. Do you believe Disney Springs will happen?

 

[dstrawn9889]

and before you go all postal on me, the expansion for pop century was completed.

 

[Incomudro]

Here is an example.
http://epcot82.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-could-have-been.html

Very cool and interesting, Thank You.
There's so much to learn.
Still, I don't think it mirrors the situation that is happening in AK.
The Rhine River ride looks like it would have been the Maelstrom of the German Pavilion.
They simply didn't go ahead with it.

 

[danlb_2000]

Very cool and interesting, Thank You.
There's so much to learn.
Still, I don't think it mirrors the situation that is happening in AK.
The Rhine River ride looks like it would have been the Maelstrom of the German Pavilion.
They simply didn't go ahead with it.

That article is actually incorrect about the Rhine River ride, the bulk of the show building was never even built for the ride.

http://epcot82.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-could-have-been.html

So I can't think of any attraction at WDW that had major construction started but never opened.

 

[ford91exploder]

To big to fail?

Yes - I still think this was driven by 'biggest box office ever', Iger greenlighted this forgetting that people went to see the 3D eye candy as Avatar was basically the first 3D movie technology which actually WORKED.

It was a technically groundbreaking film just as 'The Jazz Singer' was in 1927 when it introduced synchronized sound.

Unless the production values are absolutely top notch this attraction will flop.

I think Avatarland will benefit Cameron more than Disney It's interesting that he is shooting all three movies at once yes it worked for LOTR but Cameron's storytelling has never been his strong suit. Visuals yes/Storytelling no. That being said Cameron will have a great advert for his movies.

 

[Incomudro]

Yes - I still think this was driven by 'biggest box office ever', Iger greenlighted this forgetting that people went to see the 3D eye candy as Avatar was basically the first 3D movie technology which actually WORKED.

It was a technically groundbreaking film just as 'The Jazz Singer' was in 1927 when it introduced synchronized sound.

Unless the production values are absolutely top notch this attraction will flop.

I think Avatarland will benefit Cameron more than Disney It's interesting that he is shooting all three movies at once yes it worked for LOTR but Cameron's storytelling has never been his strong suit. Visuals yes/Storytelling no. That being said Cameron will have a great advert for his movies.

I agree with you that Cameron's visuals surpass his storytelling.
Maybe he'd be better off working on rides rather than films.

 

[ford91exploder]

I agree with you that Cameron's visuals surpass his storytelling.
Maybe he'd be better off working on rides rather than films.

Yes - That would be a VERY good thing, If Cameron is allowed to realize his vision in meatspace Avatarland has the potential to be AMAZING, If Burbank rules and they think the 'story' is what sold the movie it has the potential to make Dinoland look like a work of genius.

 

[Fable McCloud]

I think Disney has a great opportunity to create a truly beautiful, interesting, and immersive environment here...BUT I'm still thinking this would have been better as either a Star Wars themed area OR the ever wished for Beastly Kingdom...

I was really holding out for Beastly Kingdom. Sad.

But the optimist in me stays positive that whatever comes from this expansion will be beautiful.

 

[WondersOfLife]

If the actual land and the actual attractions are outstanding, then it will definitely bring in guests.

The same way Splash Mountain brings in guests and how it's an outstanding attraction. It's not because of the MOVIE it was based off of, it's because it was done RIGHT.


With that said, I think it'll be a pretty nice expansion for AK. Even though I don't like Avatar at all. I don't like Harry Potter at all. I didn't care for the movies and I don't want to read the books. But by golly the Uni land and attractions were so amazing!! I loved it!

The same goes for Star Wars for me.. Outstanding attraction and entertainment.. Even though I don't care about the franchise at all.

Do it right, and people will come. The first people that come and experience it will go back and say "THIS was FREAKING AMAZING!!!".. Then the chain reaction can start. I'm not saying it can surpass the popularity Harry or Star Wars brings in.. But if it's done right.. It'll do SOMETHING. Especially for AK.

 

[George]

Yes - I still think this was driven by 'biggest box office ever', Iger greenlighted this forgetting that people went to see the 3D eye candy as Avatar was basically the first 3D movie technology which actually WORKED.

It was a technically groundbreaking film just as 'The Jazz Singer' was in 1927 when it introduced synchronized sound.

Unless the production values are absolutely top notch this attraction will flop.

I think Avatarland will benefit Cameron more than Disney It's interesting that he is shooting all three movies at once yes it worked for LOTR but Cameron's storytelling has never been his strong suit. Visuals yes/Storytelling no. That being said Cameron will have a great advert for his movies.

Interesting, because had I been in Iger's position, I would've approved this idea because of the "eye candy". I would also be a complete to anyone who wanted to cut any part of the budget for this.

 

[ford91exploder]

Interesting, because had I been in Iger's position, I would've approved this idea because of the "eye candy". I would also be a complete ******* to anyone who wanted to cut any part of the budget for this.

Iger is strictly a numbers guy, Eisner was thinking about booting Iger because of his utter lack of creativity, But got booted himself before that happened 'Disney Wars' has a really good chapter on this.

Iger came with the ABC purchase and Eisner elevated him because after Frank Wells died Eisner did not have a strong numbers guy on the team, But it became obvious that Iger was numbers only and held creative in contempt which was not the case with Wells.

 

[George]

Iger is strictly a numbers guy, Eisner was thinking about booting Iger because of his utter lack of creativity, But got booted himself before that happened 'Disney Wars' has a really good chapter on this.

Iger came with the ABC purchase and Eisner elevated him because after Frank Wells died Eisner did not have a strong numbers guy on the team, But it became obvious that Iger was numbers only and held creative in contempt which was not the case with Wells.

I ain't disagreeing with you. Merely pointing out that the same decision could've been reached by a different bloke with an independent set of priorities/views on what makes a good themed park area attraction subunit.