Avatar Land...think Disney regrets the idea?

[ford91exploder]

I ain't disagreeing with you. Merely pointing out that the same decision could've been reached by a different bloke with an independent set of priorities/views on what makes a good themed park area attraction subunit.

Agree absolutely on that, Personally I don't like the IP that being said the ATTRACTION has the potential to be absolutely amazing IF it's done RIGHT if it's 'value engineered' like Mermaid it's going to make Dinoland look like a work of genius.

My overall point was today's Disney and Iger especially tends to make decisions based entirely on a financial basis.

 

[Matt_Black]

Agree absolutely on that, Personally I don't like the IP that being said the ATTRACTION has the potential to be absolutely amazing IF it's done RIGHT if it's 'value engineered' like Mermaid it's going to make Dinoland look like a work of genius.

My overall point was today's Disney and Iger especially tends to make decisions based entirely on a financial basis.

And that's a fair point. However, as pointed out a few times, there are probably a few or more contractual requirements for this attraction per Cameron and FOX.

 

[ford91exploder]

And that's a fair point. However, as pointed out a few times, there are probably a few or more contractual requirements for this attraction per Cameron and FOX.

That's true but contracts are subject to 'interpretation' and it will be interesting to see what shakes out, It will either be AMAZING or Dinoland will be a work of genius and we will see an epic legal battle on the order of Eisner vs Ovitz/Katzenberg

 

[GoofGoof]

Iger is strictly a numbers guy, Eisner was thinking about booting Iger because of his utter lack of creativity, But got booted himself before that happened 'Disney Wars' has a really good chapter on this.

Iger came with the ABC purchase and Eisner elevated him because after Frank Wells died Eisner did not have a strong numbers guy on the team, But it became obvious that Iger was numbers only and held creative in contempt which was not the case with Wells.

From a purely P&R standpoint I think it depends on where you are located geographically whether you have love or hate for Eisner and Iger. Under Eisner WDW thrived. It grew in leaps and bounds with many really positive additions. 2 new parks, 2 water parks, tens of thousands of new hotel rooms, PI and various additions to EPCOT and MK. Under Iger that growth has shrunk dramatically. The inverse situation occurred at DLR. Under Eisner they got the bear bones original DCA which was always a big gripe with DL regulars and during Eisner's entire tenure DL added only 3 headliners: Star Tours, Splash Mt and Indy. Granted a pretty solid trifecta, but the volume of additions simply wasn't there. They also had a period of declining quality towards the end. Under Iger the quality at DLR picked up and they got the big DCA 2.0 refurb making that park a more complete experience.

An example of this stood out to me in the latest Miceage update:

The plan now is to have the Marvel Studios area be capped off by an indoor roller coaster with a thrill factor (and a height requirement) above Space Mountain or Big Thunder. Think of Rock N’ Roller Coaster themed to Marvel superheroes, but with sharper technology and a much healthier Iger budget, instead of the smaller Eisner budget that Rock N’ Roller Coaster got in the 1990’s.

 

[ford91exploder]

From a purely P&R standpoint I think it depends on where you are located geographically whether you have love or hate for Eisner and Iger. Under Eisner WDW thrived. It grew in leaps and bounds with many really positive additions. 2 new parks, 2 water parks, tens of thousands of new hotel rooms, PI and various additions to EPCOT and MK. Under Iger that growth has shrunk dramatically. The inverse situation occurred at DLR. Under Eisner they got the bear bones original DCA which was always a big gripe with DL regulars and during Eisner's entire tenure DL added only 3 headliners: Star Tours, Splash Mt and Indy. Granted a pretty solid trifecta, but the volume of additions simply wasn't there. They also had a period of declining quality towards the end. Under Iger the quality at DLR picked up and they got the big DCA 2.0 refurb making that park a more complete experience.

An example of this stood out to me in the latest Miceage update:

All true but Iger has been dragged kicking and screaming to do many of the things at DL and DCA, Unlike WDW Disney is not the 'big dog' in Anaheim and the City of Anaheim has forced DL to do things like revamp parking etc.

Since the majority of DL customers are LOCAL, When the locals are unhappy the local media comes down on TDA like a ton of bricks not like the tame Orlando Sentinel which exists mainly to print WDW puff pieces. there is NOTHING TWDC hates more than negative press so they were forced to fix DCA.

Disney was kind of FORCED to build DCA as the City of Anaheim was looking at the property for some project so it was a kind of use it or lose it and the result was DCA 1.0 where the bakery and the tortilla factories were among the E-ticket rides.

 

[GoofGoof]

All true but Iger has been dragged kicking and screaming to do many of the things at DL and DCA, Unlike WDW Disney is not the 'big dog' in Anaheim and the City of Anaheim has forced DL to do things like revamp parking etc.

Since the majority of DL customers are LOCAL, When the locals are unhappy the local media comes down on TDA like a ton of bricks not like the tame Orlando Sentinel which exists mainly to print WDW puff pieces. there is NOTHING TWDC hates more than negative press so they were forced to fix DCA.

Disney was kind of FORCED to build DCA as the City of Anaheim was looking at the property for some project so it was a kind of use it or lose it and the result was DCA 1.0 where the bakery and the tortilla factories were among the E-ticket rides.

It didn't help that Eisner blew a load of cash in Paris and got gun shy on new projects. I actually liked the concept of DCA being purely CA themed with little in the way of Disney characters, but the demand wasn't there and the guests wanted the characters so we got em.

 

[ford91exploder]

It didn't help that Eisner blew a load of cash in Paris and got gun shy on new projects. I actually liked the concept of DCA being purely CA themed with little in the way of Disney characters, but the demand wasn't there and the guests wanted the characters so we got em.

Thanks forgot about that one although DLP has always been a money sink.

 

[Matt_Black]

That's true but contracts are subject to 'interpretation' and it will be interesting to see what shakes out, It will either be AMAZING or Dinoland will be a work of genius and we will see an epic legal battle on the order of Eisner vs Ovitz/Katzenberg

I don't think Disney would want to risk it. They've got a decent working relationship with FOX and I'd imagine they want to continue to do so until they get back the Fantastic Four, X-Men, or the original Star Wars films.

 

[ford91exploder]

I don't think Disney would want to risk it. They've got a decent working relationship with FOX and I'd imagine they want to continue to do so until they get back the Fantastic Four, X-Men, or the original Star Wars films.

You are assuming TWDC is coordinated enough to make sure relationships are preserved when multiple B/U's are involved. Movie guys don't talk to P&R guys and bonuses in P&R are granted on how cheaply you can build/operate. Recipe for disaster IMHO.

 

[Matt_Black]

Normally, I'd agree with you. A couple things though...

A) Disney has a bit of a better track record of making sure their various departments and subsidiaries communicate and play nice than other conglomerates- AOL/ Time-Warner immediately comes to mind, as I've heard they actually foster competition between groups that should get along, like CN and WB Animation (check out the hubbub over the Young Justice and Green Lantern animated series for a prime example

B) Again, once a third party is involved, especially one with the resources and prestige of FOX and James Cameron, I'm betting there's going to be a bit more oversight than if it were, say, a license with Chris Hastings for a Doctor McNinja attraction.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

It didn't help that Eisner blew a load of cash in Paris and got gun shy on new projects. I actually liked the concept of DCA being purely CA themed with little in the way of Disney characters, but the demand wasn't there and the guests wanted the characters so we got em.

I think the guests wanted QUALITY not necessarily characters. At least I did- and DCA 1.0 was lacking in excellent content and execution.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think the guests wanted QUALITY not necessarily characters. At least I did- and DCA 1.0 was lacking in excellent content and execution.

It needed more capacity for sure and better rides, but there was also definitely an effort to bring in more characters to the park. Not sure if that was driven by guest demand or just an internal decision by WDI or Iger/Staggs. Probably a combination of both. They took CA themed rides and rethemed them to Disney characters and most of the new additions had character tie-ins. For instance:

• superstar limo was turned it into a Monsters ride.
• Silly Symphony swings were originally themed to CA oranges (can't remember the original name)
• Mulholland Madness coaster was rethemed to Goofy's Sky School.
• The Ferris wheel was originally the Sun Wheel and had a large sun in the middle. It was rethemed to Mickey's Fun Wheel with the giant Mickey head in the middle.
• The Boardwalk games on Paradise Pier have all been re-themed to Disney characters.

They added new attractions all based on Disney characters like:

• Cars Land
• Toy Story Midway Mania
• Little Mermaid
• World of Color

There was definitely an effort made to remove the overall theme of CA and infuse Disney characters across the park. The new rides were definitely higher quality as well.

 

[Matt_Black]

And that Mickey Ferris wheel makes a heck of a symbol for DCA.

 

[FoozieBear]

Looks like the Avatar sequel is being pushed even farther now, with it definitely not opening 'till at least 2017. At this rate, it seems the Pandora themed area in Animal Kingdom will probably open before the movie does. http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/james-cameron-avatar-sequel-delayed-late-2017-28212928

 

[danlb_2000]

Looks like the Avatar sequel is being pushed even farther now, with it definitely not opening 'till at least 2017. At this rate, it seems the Pandora themed area in Animal Kingdom will probably open before the movie does. http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/james-cameron-avatar-sequel-delayed-late-2017-28212928

Already being discussed here:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/avatars-first-sequel-delayed-until-late-2017.894868/

 

[FoozieBear]

Already being discussed here:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/avatars-first-sequel-delayed-until-late-2017.894868/

Sorry, I must have missed that thread.

 

[WondersOfLife]

I'm guessing it is too late for Disney to change their minds and replace this whole idea with Beastly Kingdom.......... Even with Pete's Dragon just around the corner..

 

[WondersOfLife]

It needed more capacity for sure and better rides, but there was also definitely an effort to bring in more characters to the park. Not sure if that was driven by guest demand or just an internal decision by WDI or Iger/Staggs. Probably a combination of both. They took CA themed rides and rethemed them to Disney characters and most of the new additions had character tie-ins. For instance:

• superstar limo was turned it into a Monsters ride.
• Silly Symphony swings were originally themed to CA oranges (can't remember the original name)
• Mulholland Madness coaster was rethemed to Goofy's Sky School.
• The Ferris wheel was originally the Sun Wheel and had a large sun in the middle. It was rethemed to Mickey's Fun Wheel with the giant Mickey head in the middle.
• The Boardwalk games on Paradise Pier have all been re-themed to Disney characters.

They added new attractions all based on Disney characters like:

• Cars Land
• Toy Story Midway Mania
• Little Mermaid
• World of Color

There was definitely an effort made to remove the overall theme of CA and infuse Disney characters across the park. The new rides were definitely higher quality as well.

It still doesn't matter whether Disney uses characters or not... WDW's most popular attractions that experience long wait times include..

Soarin'
Expedition Everest
Space Mountain
Thunder Mountain
Tower of Terror
Jungle Cruise
The Haunted Mansion
Spaceship Earth

Heck, even Splash Mountain uses characters that are from what used to be considered a very hated movie.

So Avatarland will be good... If the quality is good.

 

[GoofGoof]

It still doesn't matter whether Disney uses characters or not... WDW's most popular attractions that experience long wait times include..

Soarin'
Expedition Everest
Space Mountain
Thunder Mountain
Tower of Terror
Jungle Cruise
The Haunted Mansion
Spaceship Earth

Heck, even Splash Mountain uses characters that are from what used to be considered a very hated movie.

So Avatarland will be good... If the quality is good.

Of course Avatarland will be good if the quality is good. There are a handful of people that have argued they have no interest in the land since they have no interest in the movie, but it's a very small minority and if the quality is there most of them will end up coming around anyway.

The quote above you linked to was really part of a tangent conversation about the DCA makeover. Sometimes these threads get a bit off track.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Of course Avatarland will be good if the quality is good. There are a handful of people that have argued they have no interest in the land since they have no interest in the movie, but it's a very small minority and if the quality is there most of them will end up coming around anyway.

The quote above you linked to was really part of a tangent conversation about the DCA makeover. Sometimes these threads get a bit off track.

Ahh okay. I got you! Sorry bout that. Although, It's still a valid point to express in threads like this regardless.