AVATAR land - the specifics

[Casper Gutman]

Silly?
So, when you walk through AK - it's exciting?
Heck, the Magic Kingdom, and Epcot aren't exciting on the surface either.
Is the World Showcase exciting?
They are beautiful, detailed and intricate lands with some exciting rides in them.
AK in particular is highly detailed, and is a park designed to be immersive and to be one where time is spent to take ones time and look around.
Not just look at things, but look for things.
When my family goes to AK, we walk all the trails. We look for the animals. We go to the aviary and identify the birds and watch them.
We see Flights of Wonder.
We watch the Gibbons.
Nature is like that, it's not all excitement all the time.
Perhaps you need more stimulation?
Maybe the park, maybe Pandora is not for you.
You've got other choices, so why continue to trash something you haven't seen because you believe it fails to meet some excitement level you require?

You're not making a lot of sense here. I said nothing about "excitement" (and I think the word your looking might be "thrilling," since most folks would probably say yes, AK is exciting). In my post above, I mentioned detail, variety, and lots of things to explore - exactly the kind of "stimulation" you are describing.

Also, it's not nature, it's an incredibly controlled theme park, with every aspect designed very carefully. You're not in the wilds.

You aren't a superior person because you are looking forward to Pandora. I'm not superior because I'm not. Stop attacking opinions.

 

[flynnibus]

videos make me worried that the land won't do a good job fostering the connection between Earth and Pandora on it's own. And that's why they're so heavily explaining it. Hopefully my suspicion is wrong.

I think 90% of the rubes won't care one way or another. The "lets ride the golf ball" crowd won't suffer or gain from it.... their subconscious is numbed

In the hunt for explaining story over and over... this is their crutch for pandora since they don't seem to be telling stories of individuals from the film...

 

[rushtest4echo]

You're not making a lot of sense here. I said nothing about "excitement" (and I think the word your looking might be "thrilling," since most folks would probably say yes, AK is exciting). In my post above, I mentioned detail, variety, and lots of things to explore - exactly the kind of "stimulation" you are describing.

Also, it's not nature, it's an incredibly controlled theme park, with every aspect designed very carefully. You're not in the wilds.

You aren't a superior person because you are looking forward to Pandora. I'm not superior because I'm not. Stop attacking opinions.

I don't want to come off as attacking your opinion, but we're here on these forums to have discussions like this, right?

Frankly, if you're only spending a few moments in Avatar Land aside from the rides then you'll be in the super minority. Between the River Journey and Flight of Passage, there will be roughly 10 minutes of ride time in the land. Each side of WWoHP and Carsland (since you mentioned them) has rides that have a combined ride time of under 10 minutes as well aside from Hogwarts Express, but I don't see you saying that it's meant for low attention span people or whatever it is that you were trying to assert with that comment. It appears that @Incomudro trying to understand why your opinion of the Pandora is so low. Your arguments for why you weren't going to care for the land were found lacking by @Incomudro (and probably anyone else who's seen the land up close and can attest to it being more than a singular landscape with rocks- which I can certainly attest to). If you're interested in human architecture, that's fine. I happen to find Mysterious Island to be Disney's crowning achievement and it has little to do with the human parts of the area. Two of my favorite things about DCA are Grizzly Peak and Cars Land and I hate water rides. It's the landscape that I like in that case. It's certainly possible to disagree on that point, but if that's all you're chalking the land up to then yes, you'll probably be disappointed with the area until you actually take the time to appreciate all it has to offer.

You've mentioned that you could "spend hours" exploring Cars land. Removing the rides from that equation (as you've done with Avatarland- though you've forgotten several elements in Avatarland that are either unannounced or you've just overlooked), Cars land has several small shops, some outdoor dining areas, and one indoor restaurant. The theming on those areas (not the rides) is great if you're into the immersion that a burnt out 1950's Route 66 town has to offer. If you're going to distill Avatarland down, at least do the same for a land that you're going to use as an example. I personally can't fathom how somebody could spend hours in Carsland other than queueing for attractions. I've had a few meals at Flo's, and I've been through all of the shops multiple times on multiple visits, and I still can't imagine that I've spent more than an hour or two combined in the several weeks that I've spent in DCA since Carsland opened (again, aside from the rides). Does that make it a bad land? Not at all. It's an excellent land and Pandora will be every bit as impressive aside from the lack of human architecture- so I guess that's why you're not interested apparently. To each their own, but I find your explanations for why you're inevitably not going to like Pandora as severely lacking especially given the examples of other lands that you prefer. That's not to say that you will or won't like the place, but it appears that you've written Pandora off completely and that's an opinion that most people aren't going to find valid until you've at least set foot in the place. Especially since you don't seem to just blindly scream NO NOT MORE IP, THE LAND IS GOING TO SUCK BECAUSE OF THAT, NEVER GOING THERE!

I do appreciate you mentioning NFL in a positive light though, and I completely agree that it gets a bad rap.

 

[Incomudro]

I don't want to come off as attacking your opinion, but we're here on these forums to have discussions like this, right?

Frankly, if you're only spending a few moments in Avatar Land aside from the rides then you'll be in the super minority. Between the River Journey and Flight of Passage, there will be roughly 10 minutes of ride time in the land. Each side of WWoHP and Carsland (since you mentioned them) has rides that have a combined ride time of under 10 minutes as well aside from Hogwarts Express, but I don't see you saying that it's meant for low attention span people or whatever it is that you were trying to assert with that comment. It appears that @Incomudro trying to understand why your opinion of the Pandora is so low. Your arguments for why you weren't going to care for the land were found lacking by @Incomudro (and probably anyone else who's seen the land up close and can attest to it being more than a singular landscape with rocks- which I can certainly attest to). If you're interested in human architecture, that's fine. I happen to find Mysterious Island to be Disney's crowning achievement and it has little to do with the human parts of the area. Two of my favorite things about DCA are Grizzly Peak and Cars Land and I hate water rides. It's the landscape that I like in that case. It's certainly possible to disagree on that point, but if that's all you're chalking the land up to then yes, you'll probably be disappointed with the area until you actually take the time to appreciate all it has to offer.

You've mentioned that you could "spend hours" exploring Cars land. Removing the rides from that equation (as you've done with Avatarland- though you've forgotten several elements in Avatarland that are either unannounced or you've just overlooked), Cars land has several small shops, some outdoor dining areas, and one indoor restaurant. The theming on those areas (not the rides) is great if you're into the immersion that a burnt out 1950's Route 66 town has to offer. If you're going to distill Avatarland down, at least do the same for a land that you're going to use as an example. I personally can't fathom how somebody could spend hours in Carsland other than queueing for attractions. I've had a few meals at Flo's, and I've been through all of the shops multiple times on multiple visits, and I still can't imagine that I've spent more than an hour or two combined in the several weeks that I've spent in DCA since Carsland opened (again, aside from the rides). Does that make it a bad land? Not at all. It's an excellent land and Pandora will be every bit as impressive aside from the lack of human architecture- so I guess that's why you're not interested apparently. To each their own, but I find your explanations for why you're inevitably not going to like Pandora as severely lacking especially given the examples of other lands that you prefer. That's not to say that you will or won't like the place, but it appears that you've written Pandora off completely and that's an opinion that most people aren't going to find valid until you've at least set foot in the place.

I do appreciate you mentioning NFL in a positive light though, and I completely agree that it gets a bad rap.

I don't imagine Casper would get into Hemispheres.
Certainly not Cygnus X-1
Seriously though...
The way he dismisses Pandora can be applied to any other land.
Cars Land: Kiddie toy cars on tracks with some rocks in the background.
Asia in AK: A monkey exhibit with a fake mountain that has a roller coaster in it.
I'm not against criticism at all, it's part of what discussions are all about.
But that's different from dismissing something off hand before anyone has seen it in person in its entirety.
There's also a difference between saying something isn't for you - as opposed to dismissing it as bad.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I don't want to come off as attacking your opinion, but we're here on these forums to have discussions like this, right?

Frankly, if you're only spending a few moments in Avatar Land aside from the rides then you'll be in the super minority. Between the River Journey and Flight of Passage, there will be roughly 10 minutes of ride time in the land. Each side of WWoHP and Carsland (since you mentioned them) has rides that have a combined ride time of under 10 minutes as well aside from Hogwarts Express, but I don't see you saying that it's meant for low attention span people or whatever it is that you were trying to assert with that comment. It appears that @Incomudro trying to understand why your opinion of the Pandora is so low. Your arguments for why you weren't going to care for the land were found lacking by @Incomudro (and probably anyone else who's seen the land up close and can attest to it being more than a singular landscape with rocks- which I can certainly attest to). If you're interested in human architecture, that's fine. I happen to find Mysterious Island to be Disney's crowning achievement and it has little to do with the human parts of the area. Two of my favorite things about DCA are Grizzly Peak and Cars Land and I hate water rides. It's the landscape that I like in that case. It's certainly possible to disagree on that point, but if that's all you're chalking the land up to then yes, you'll probably be disappointed with the area until you actually take the time to appreciate all it has to offer.

You've mentioned that you could "spend hours" exploring Cars land. Removing the rides from that equation (as you've done with Avatarland- though you've forgotten several elements in Avatarland that are either unannounced or you've just overlooked), Cars land has several small shops, some outdoor dining areas, and one indoor restaurant. The theming on those areas (not the rides) is great if you're into the immersion that a burnt out 1950's Route 66 town has to offer. If you're going to distill Avatarland down, at least do the same for a land that you're going to use as an example. I personally can't fathom how somebody could spend hours in Carsland other than queueing for attractions. I've had a few meals at Flo's, and I've been through all of the shops multiple times on multiple visits, and I still can't imagine that I've spent more than an hour or two combined in the several weeks that I've spent in DCA since Carsland opened (again, aside from the rides). Does that make it a bad land? Not at all. It's an excellent land and Pandora will be every bit as impressive aside from the lack of human architecture- so I guess that's why you're not interested apparently. To each their own, but I find your explanations for why you're inevitably not going to like Pandora as severely lacking especially given the examples of other lands that you prefer. That's not to say that you will or won't like the place, but it appears that you've written Pandora off completely and that's an opinion that most people aren't going to find valid until you've at least set foot in the place.

I do appreciate you mentioning NFL in a positive light though, and I completely agree that it gets a bad rap.

Ok. First, I think you need to reread the chain of posts leading up to this one. Incomudro is the one who brought up the "short attention span" silliness as an insult and didn't respond to any of my post laying out what I look for in a land (which was the question).

Secondly, you've insinuated in multiple threads that you have insider knowledge. If you have walked around Avatarland, of course you have more information then I do (and if there are unannounced shops and features then I'm curious as to why they don't mention them - seems like a key PR point!). I've been reading these boards for many years and I know that several folks have strong, trustworthy insider sources - '74, Marni, etc. - but I wasn't aware you were in that group. If you are, I apologize. Still, it's a bit annoying to support your argument by talking about super secret unannounced features noone else knows about.

As to Mysterious Island and Cars Land, I'm not sure what you are talking about. They are both very much about the built environment - MI is a series of metal walkways and Jules Verne-inspired steampunk structures brilliantly integrated into a striking landscape, and the interest in Cars Land is primarily the "Route 66 town," supported (like MI) by the landscape. In both, the beautifully done landscape is integrated with and enhances the built structures but is not the primary focus. Grizzly Rapids is closer to Pandora, and in all honesty I find it lackluster.

What makes Cars Land and Diagon Alley worthy of extensive exploration is the range of stores and restaurants with unique, themed merchandise and food as well as the range of intricate and sometimes hidden details (I expect Pandora will have these). As parks try to minimize lines by utilizing line-skipping tech, they need to offer ways for the huge crowds no longer stuck in ques to do - that's the point of the stores, of course. So far, the stores and restaurants I've seen from Pandora are a made-over mess hall, a large and rather uninteresting store, and a neat looking stand. If they have more, they should probably show it. Again, had they centered it on a Na'Vi village, it would have been more in line with the current theme park design philosophy.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I don't imagine Casper would get into Hemispheres.
Certainly not Cygnus X-1
Seriously though...
The way he dismisses Pandora can be applied to any other land.
Cars Land: Kiddie toy cars on tracks with some rocks in the background.
Asia in AK: A monkey exhibit with a fake mountain that has a roller coaster in it.
I'm not against criticism at all, it's part of what discussions are all about.
But that's different from dismissing something off hand before anyone has seen it in person in its entirety.
There's also a difference between saying something isn't for you - as opposed to dismissing it as bad.

The post you are (sort of) responding to was about what I look for in a land. My opinion. And my post begins with "personally" and repeatedly stipulates I am discussing personal preference. You should probably just admit you don't like differing opinions because you have demonstrated it over and over.

Also, I haven't insinuated my opinion is the result of a superior, more refined "theme-park palate." You have, however.

 

[Incomudro]

The post you are (sort of) responding to was about what I look for in a land. My opinion. And my post begins with "personally" and repeatedly stipulates I am discussing personal preference. You should probably just admit you don't like differing opinions because you have demonstrated it over and over.

Also, I haven't insinuated my opinion is the result of a superior, more refined "theme-park palate." You have, however.

Err... No.
You are the one who used accusations of elitism.

 

[rushtest4echo]

I guess it's not all the relevant in the end. We've got someone who doesn't even visit WDW anymore commenting on how he's not interested in visiting Pandora.

As far as the manmade structures argument- that's fine if you prefer them. All I was trying to say is that I prefer the landscapes and theming of those areas as opposed to the man made aspects. The most satisfying decision that they made with Carsland IMO was the huge facade, especially the ride's interaction with the landscape during the first minute or so. Meandering through the hills and under the waterfall on Cars is the crux of that attraction design wise if you ask me. They took a moment to literally "enjoy the scenery" before the fast paced stuff.

Pandora is going to have interactions with characters and a small theater area with a quasi-stage show, though I don't have any details beyond simply seeing those things under construction. Maybe they're coming later, similar to what happened in WWoHP.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I guess it's not all the relevant in the end. We've got someone who doesn't even visit WDW anymore commenting on how he's not interested in visiting Pandora.

As far as the manmade structures argument- that's fine if you prefer them. All I was trying to say is that I prefer the landscapes and theming of those areas as opposed to the man made aspects. The most satisfying decision that they made with Carsland IMO was the huge facade, especially the ride's interaction with the landscape during the first minute or so. Meandering through the hills and under the waterfall on Cars is the crux of that attraction design wise if you ask me. They took a moment to literally "enjoy the scenery" before the fast paced stuff.

Pandora is going to have interactions with characters and a small theater area with a quasi-stage show, though I don't have any details beyond simply seeing those things under construction. Maybe they're coming later, similar to what happened in WWoHP.

I was at Animal Kingdom a couple months ago. The fact that I don't spend three weeks a year at WDW anymore doesn't mean I never visit and doesn't mean I am not qualified to have an opinion. You will need to find some other pretense to dismiss opinions you don't like (I'm sure you and other folks here will try).

A quasi-stage show sounds nice. As to interactions with the characters, I was under the impression that the land's story was designed in such a way that the shaman in the river ride was the only Na'Vi we would see - after all, the Na'Vi are avoiding us and it's a big deal she's agreed to meet humans. If that's incorrect, it's a positive.

Taste is subjective, of course. The mountains of Cars Land are wonderful, but I find it very, very odd to say that one's favorite part of the attraction is the brief curve up the hill (and the perspective-breaking waterfall) rather than the wonderful dark ride portion with its elaborate AAs or the thrill ride ending. To each their own. I would heartily challenge the notion that it is "the crux of [the] attraction design wise" though.

 

[Rteetz]

Tiering is happening I guess. FP bookings start tomorrow.

http://blogmickey.com/2017/03/fastpass-pandora-world-avatar-tiered-available-reserve-tomorrow/

 

[phi2134]

Gotta love the internet and the power it gives for people express their opinions

 

[KrzyKtty]

Works out for us, daughter is too small to ride Flights of Passage anyway. Granted, we are going to AK on 60+3 (if I counted right), so we may have a hard time getting a FP for the River Journey anyway!

 

[rushtest4echo]

I was at Animal Kingdom a couple months ago. The fact that I don't spend three weeks a year at WDW anymore doesn't mean I never visit and doesn't mean I am not qualified to have an opinion. You will need to find some other pretense to dismiss opinions you don't like (I'm sure you and other folks here will try).

A quasi-stage show sounds nice. As to interactions with the characters, I was under the impression that the land's story was designed in such a way that the shaman in the river ride was the only Na'Vi we would see - after all, the Na'Vi are avoiding us and it's a big deal she's agreed to meet humans. If that's incorrect, it's a positive.

Taste is subjective, of course. The mountains of Cars Land are wonderful, but I find it very, very odd to say that one's favorite part of the attraction is the brief curve up the hill (and the perspective-breaking waterfall) rather than the wonderful dark ride portion with its elaborate AAs or the thrill ride ending. To each their own. I would heartily challenge the notion that it is "the crux of [the] attraction design wise" though.

The Shaman's appearance is the only Na'Vi that you'll see in animatronic form.

 

[DisneyRoy]

Tiering is happening I guess. FP bookings start tomorrow.

http://blogmickey.com/2017/03/fastpass-pandora-world-avatar-tiered-available-reserve-tomorrow/

This is interesting. It sounds like (so far) that the only tiering is with the two rides in Pandora. That is a plus if it stays that way and doesn't affect the rest of the Fast Pass activities in the park. What are the chances of that happening?

 

[KrzyKtty]

The Shaman's appearance is the only Na'Vi that you'll see in animatronic form.

I know in some sort of TV spot a long time ago they talked about having Actors dress up like Navi (I guess on stilts?) and interact with guests that way...

 

[matt9112]

Well, we already know that it's a relatively short ride, and it seems that the big reveal is the Shaman.
I too hope for more wow than we are seeing here - more articulation rather than static props.
We'll see.
But in a world where movie promos are in the habit of revealing the best lines and biggest moments of movies - I'm a bit old school and like a bit of mystery.

If it feels as short as it really is will the regular guest be turned off do ya think? We know it's short but I hope it feels richer. If the ride "feels" short I can see it getting a cold shoulder since it dosent have the shoe in IP backing of say frozen.

 

[rushtest4echo]

I don't imagine Casper would get into Hemispheres.
Certainly not Cygnus X-1

I don't follow.
Your post feels Rushed.
Seems like a Fly By Night post to me.
You're sending mixed Signals.
You need to Hold Your Fire.
Perhaps one of your Counterparts can help me understand.
Can I get a Show of Hands for anyone else that gets what this guy is on about?
I'm sure at some point I'll figure it out, and then Presto!
Everything will fit like Clockwork Angels.

I'll show myself out; of course I'll have to Exit... Stage Left.

 

[Incomudro]

I don't follow.
Seems like a Fly By Night post to me
You're sending mixed Signals
You need to Hold Your Fire
Perhaps one of your Counterparts can help me understand
Can I get a Show of Hands for anyone else that gets what this guy is on about?

I'll show myself out; of course I'll have to Exit... Stage Left.

I can't believe what he's (Casper) saying...
These things just can't be true.
Our World could use this beauty.
Just think what it might do...

 

[Incomudro]

If it feels as short as it really is will the regular guest be turned off do ya think? We know it's short but I hope it feels richer. If the ride "feels" short I can see it getting a cold shoulder since it dosent have the shoe in IP backing of say frozen.

Agreed.
We know the actual time is short, but will it feel that way?
I'm hoping the land and the cue all add in to contribute to the ride length as just a segment of the experience.

 

[danlb_2000]

I know in some sort of TV spot a long time ago they talked about having Actors dress up like Navi (I guess on stilts?) and interact with guests that way...

I would be hard to do the Navi accurately that way because they aren't simply tall, but larger overall then humans.