AVATAR land - the specifics

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Sure, wands work for Harry Potter, but what would you buy to activate the Pandora spots?
Some type of Navi staff? A magic feather? A dreamcatcher? I just can't image what would be a good fit.
Could be anything really. Maybe just your magic band could work things. They could also just make an Avatar version of the light up mouse ears that work the interactive stuff at night. I don't think it has to be as direct or obvious as the wands for Harry Potter. Although the fanboy crowd will always compare WDW to Uni and judge pretty much everything vs Harry Potter I don't think kids (who would be the primary target for these types of products) will really care. If you give them something that is interactive they will be happy working it.
 

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
Better to have your work analyzed and proven the best outcome... than have it praised blindly. Because without critique (even from yourself or within) the work will eventually suffer and you will be surpassed.

The problem on these threads is some people can't understand why someone would be interested in the creative side of things rather than just the consumption of it. So if you are doing anything except consuming it as it was intended... their defenses kick in

Oh, obviously, yes. There are always things you could do better, and it's possible to miss the mark. Never stop growing, never stop asking questions, never stop thinking. But . . . at some point a project needs to be done--and on budget--and practical. It needs to exist. As the saying goes, perfect is the enemy of done. Another favorite of mine is that a creative project is never finished, merely abandoned. That is so true. At some point you need to fish or cut bait.

Of course people are free to opine, comment, armchair imagineer. It's the nature of the beast--internet forums and armchair quarterbacking--that many comments are going to be based upon not enough knowledge--of the project, or of the specific disciplines involved, and more prevalently, exhibiting a personal bias "a consensus of one" as to the quality or value of the thing being discussed. Most frustrating when I have been involved in large publicly visible projects are the people who somehow think they know how these things go down when they obviously don't. There are a few great insiders here, but also lots of "well, if they cared about X they would have done Y" . . . properly translated that ends up "I like X and now that I see Y I wish it was different. Not sure how, or if that's practical or affordable or doable, but I think I'll run down the people who made it anyway after thinking about it for 5 minutes."

It is also so simple to second guess or comment on what is there, as opposed to creating something out of whole cloth. I often ask for feedback and ideas, and the more blank the page is, the more silent the critics. People don't know what to say with a blank page. Once you start to fill it in, they're all about nudge this, change that, but "where were you when the page was blank?"

The reverse of that coin is the sense of wonder when people see something that tickles their fancy, and they can't believe it exists. "How did you do that?" "where do these ideas come from?" "that's crazy cool!". It is because, again, they weren't there for the hours and hours of work it took to make the thing, that it almost seems miraculous. Of course that's wonderful to hear. That's what you're going for.
Hopefully in this case there are more people who fall in love with this work than not.

Disney is not perfect, of course, and we all hold them to a very high standard. Things like the Stitch show in Tomorrowland somehow seem to happen despite that. (ugh!) I often think about how much work needs to go into something like that, how many incremental decisions, and think "how did that happen?", lol.

Another example might be Hogwart's in IOA. Did they run out of money on the building? It's so awesome all over the place, then you get to the part in the queue where the building is completely exposed. Oh, and you can hear the Jurassic Park theme. Again, did they run out of money, or time? It's hard to believe they didn't care about it, given the level of detail in the whole thing. Odd. Wish I could ask someone about that.

Think about any given novel, or movie, or music release. How do bad movies happen? So many people involved. Wow.
Mistakes happen, bad decisions, organizational problems, so many things can go wrong . . .

And so I suppose there will be things about Avatar that also have us asking questions. "Why is it like this?" I prefer those to instant
"well you know what you SHOULD have done is . . . " (because a lot of those sentences end in "built Beastly Kingdommmeeee", lol)

It's more about constructive, thoughtful criticism. To think about all the factors at play in designing and building a thing like this
is staggering. From the first sketches, to figuring out how many replacement light bulbs you need to have in stock and where to put them, and how often to ship new rolls of toilet paper backstage. Staggering. And not all fun.

And finally . . . . the place isn't open yet. We are reviewing some promotional materials, some guesswork, and some spy info.
So we shall see how the final product impacts us when we get a chance to experience it. I am looking forward to that with an open mind.

In some ways, I envy those who have no idea this is coming, book their trip to Walt Disney World, and just stumble upon
it, or don't think about it. They haven't been watching and wondering and prognosticating obsessively (I'm looking in the
mirror, here) for seven years. They are going to be the purest indication of whether this works. They will judge it on
what it is, not on a third attraction that was value engineered out of the plan three years ago.

And so we shall see . . . I guess I just typed a lot, huh?
 

Capsin4

Well-Known Member
00
I just read the Robert Niles article on Pandora. I found this passage about interactivity interesting:

"Disney hasn't announced it yet, but we've heard from multiple insiders that the land will feature interactive merchandise that will allow visitors to engage as more active participants in the land, rather than just tourists passing through. The obvious reference here is the interactive wands available at Universal's Wizarding World of Harry Potter, but insiders promise that Avatar's interactive merchandise will be even more technically impressive."

So will you be able to buy some type of item and interact with the plants or will you just be able to use your magic-band. Any insiders care to comment on this? @marni1971, @Magic Feather?

Here is a link to the full article. He also thinks there is a walk-through attraction, but I am betting it is just the land itself.
http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201703/5482/
could be interesting. Headbands, pendants, amulets, armbands or anything of cultural significance could work. It would be great if they tied it into a game of sorts where you had to explore caves, grottos, religious totems and such all while completing tasks that were of significance to navi clans and/or Pandoran ecology/wildlife.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Most frustrating when I have been involved in large publicly visible projects are the people who somehow think they know how these things go down when they obviously don't

The best variant is when outside people talk as if they knew WHY something was done, rant on and on about it... but are completely wrong.. and you know.. because YOU were there and they weren't :) My products and industry has online communities and its funny to watch those folks go on and on about why 'they' did something... argue with you about it.. when you have the first hand experience :)

It is also so simple to second guess or comment on what is there, as opposed to creating something out of whole cloth. I often ask for feedback and ideas, and the more blank the page is, the more silent the critics. People don't know what to say with a blank page. Once you start to fill it in, they're all about nudge this, change that, but "where were you when the page was blank?"

Yup... the 'anyone can be a critic, but that doesn't make them a creator'. Its far far easier to tear something down than it is to build something. As you say, it is entirely different to contribute vs to own :)

Another example might be Hogwart's in IOA. Did they run out of money on the building? It's so awesome all over the place, then you get to the part in the queue where the building is completely exposed. Oh, and you can hear the Jurassic Park theme. Again, did they run out of money, or time? It's hard to believe they didn't care about it, given the level of detail in the whole thing. Odd. Wish I could ask someone about that.

I think it was just that it was intended to be an overflow.. and not used all the time. Yet, the extended greenhouse and beyond is used frequently. Eventually you have to draw a line :)

It's more about constructive, thoughtful criticism

I agree.. which is why backing up comments with justifications helps vs 'Avatar sux' :D
 

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
00

could be interesting. Headbands, pendants, amulets, armbands or anything of cultural significance could work. It would be great if they tied it into a game of sorts where you had to explore caves, grottos, religious totems and such all while completing tasks that were of significance to navi clans and/or Pandoran ecology/wildlife.

When I read the post questioning what could fit without looking 'forced', I immediately thought the same as you. Another option could be a staff though that could be too cumbersome for folk to carry round. The film features many items with multiple possibilities.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Since they have shown more and more photos of the Link-Chairs, I can clear up some more questions.

- The seating position and restraint system is almost the exactly the same (at least the same concept) as the Pony Express roller coaster at Knott's Berry Farm.

- You grab on handlebars and slide forward on your seat against a chest pad, then a back restraint comes out from behind and snugs you in your seat and then kneepins extend out below your knees and basically rest on your calves. and them the operators make sure everything is secure and then you are good to go.

Is this a ride vehicle or a torture device? ;)
 

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
Welcome to the boards, while it is a similar concept as Soarin' the ride system is nothing like Soarin'. You won't extend out into the screen because the screen is all around you, you won't be able to see the edges of the screen anywhere, the screen is that big from the floor to the roof and side to side
Wait, though, the seats won't extend at all? From what we've seen, each row of seats is in a kind of back-less box with a garage door front. I guess most of us were assuming that after the garage door opens, the rides would push forward some, otherwise, you would still be in the box, spoiling your peripheral vision. Can you clarify?
 

Capsin4

Well-Known Member
Wait, though, the seats won't extend at all? From what we've seen, each row of seats is in a kind of back-less box with a garage door front. I guess most of us were assuming that after the garage door opens, the rides would push forward some, otherwise, you would still be in the box, spoiling your peripheral vision. Can you clarify?
Apparently the goggles account for the periphery in some AR way. I thought this was supposed to have more degrees of freedom than soarin so maybe it teeters on the edge.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Wait, though, the seats won't extend at all? From what we've seen, each row of seats is in a kind of back-less box with a garage door front. I guess most of us were assuming that after the garage door opens, the rides would push forward some, otherwise, you would still be in the box, spoiling your peripheral vision. Can you clarify?
I'm pretty such people have already said that the wall in front of the seats (during loading) will lift up and the seats will indeed move forward out of the loading area though probably just enough to move out of that industrial looking space and have the screens all around you.
 

kap91

Well-Known Member
As I've been saying, beyond the resolution, the projectors have to be BRIGHT and a very high frame rate will also help. 120FPS? Can current tech do that?

Been waiting for someone with inside knowledge to weigh in on the projection technology for a loooong time, though . . .

It's definitely highend Christie Laser projection. Likely at least 120 FPS because of 3D (60FPS each eye). Frame rates higher than that are possible but at a certain point detract from the experience rather than add. Brightness largely depends on the specific projector, video standard, and amount of projectors which I can't speak directly to other than that the people that do Disney projects know what they're doing and are willing to pay far more for better quality projection and sound equipment than Universal is. Knowing that James Cameron is involved it seems likely they will use the best tech they can get - which would be Dolby-vision or some other HDR color tech which can get extremely bright compared to standard color space and projection. There are experimental technologies that allow for even more brightness but I don't think any of them are ready for prime time.

Does Na'vi River Journey have a linear story (something goes horribly wrong?) or is it more like a Pirates type ride?

The glasses we saw in Flight of Passage appear like they could have an augmented reality component. Is that the case?

Joe Rohde has said the ride is "lyrical" which I'm pretty sure is code for "experiential" - aka much more like pirates, much less a specific plot. Which I personally think is refreshing as hell.

Oh, obviously, yes. There are always things you could do better, and it's possible to miss the mark. Never stop growing, never stop asking questions, never stop thinking. But . . . at some point a project needs to be done--and on budget--and practical. It needs to exist. As the saying goes, perfect is the enemy of done. Another favorite of mine is that a creative project is never finished, merely abandoned. That is so true. At some point you need to fish or cut bait.

Of course people are free to opine, comment, armchair imagineer. It's the nature of the beast--internet forums and armchair quarterbacking--that many comments are going to be based upon not enough knowledge--of the project, or of the specific disciplines involved, and more prevalently, exhibiting a personal bias "a consensus of one" as to the quality or value of the thing being discussed. Most frustrating when I have been involved in large publicly visible projects are the people who somehow think they know how these things go down when they obviously don't. There are a few great insiders here, but also lots of "well, if they cared about X they would have done Y" . . . properly translated that ends up "I like X and now that I see Y I wish it was different. Not sure how, or if that's practical or affordable or doable, but I think I'll run down the people who made it anyway after thinking about it for 5 minutes."

It is also so simple to second guess or comment on what is there, as opposed to creating something out of whole cloth. I often ask for feedback and ideas, and the more blank the page is, the more silent the critics. People don't know what to say with a blank page. Once you start to fill it in, they're all about nudge this, change that, but "where were you when the page was blank?"

The reverse of that coin is the sense of wonder when people see something that tickles their fancy, and they can't believe it exists. "How did you do that?" "where do these ideas come from?" "that's crazy cool!". It is because, again, they weren't there for the hours and hours of work it took to make the thing, that it almost seems miraculous. Of course that's wonderful to hear. That's what you're going for.
Hopefully in this case there are more people who fall in love with this work than not.

Disney is not perfect, of course, and we all hold them to a very high standard. Things like the Stitch show in Tomorrowland somehow seem to happen despite that. (ugh!) I often think about how much work needs to go into something like that, how many incremental decisions, and think "how did that happen?", lol.

Another example might be Hogwart's in IOA. Did they run out of money on the building? It's so awesome all over the place, then you get to the part in the queue where the building is completely exposed. Oh, and you can hear the Jurassic Park theme. Again, did they run out of money, or time? It's hard to believe they didn't care about it, given the level of detail in the whole thing. Odd. Wish I could ask someone about that.

Think about any given novel, or movie, or music release. How do bad movies happen? So many people involved. Wow.
Mistakes happen, bad decisions, organizational problems, so many things can go wrong . . .

And so I suppose there will be things about Avatar that also have us asking questions. "Why is it like this?" I prefer those to instant
"well you know what you SHOULD have done is . . . " (because a lot of those sentences end in "built Beastly Kingdommmeeee", lol)

It's more about constructive, thoughtful criticism. To think about all the factors at play in designing and building a thing like this
is staggering. From the first sketches, to figuring out how many replacement light bulbs you need to have in stock and where to put them, and how often to ship new rolls of toilet paper backstage. Staggering. And not all fun.

And finally . . . . the place isn't open yet. We are reviewing some promotional materials, some guesswork, and some spy info.
So we shall see how the final product impacts us when we get a chance to experience it. I am looking forward to that with an open mind.

In some ways, I envy those who have no idea this is coming, book their trip to Walt Disney World, and just stumble upon
it, or don't think about it. They haven't been watching and wondering and prognosticating obsessively (I'm looking in the
mirror, here) for seven years. They are going to be the purest indication of whether this works. They will judge it on
what it is, not on a third attraction that was value engineered out of the plan three years ago.

And so we shall see . . . I guess I just typed a lot, huh?
I want to jab the like button 1000 times for this. Nailed it.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It works especially well to avoid a "book report" ride as well while still visiting favorite aspects of a beloved franchise. It's also good for re-riding too.
Agreed. For Pandora they really couldn't do a book report ride since they went with the backstory that the land is set years after the events of the movie. It was a smart move. Before we had the details I wondered if they would have any sort of battle sequences in either ride since they were a prominent part of the movie, but I think it's a much better fit for AK to have the rides focus on the natural environment of the fictional world of Pandora.
 

TyTrap

Well-Known Member
Welcome to the boards, while it is a similar concept as Soarin' the ride system is nothing like Soarin'. You won't extend out into the screen because the screen is all around you, you won't be able to see the edges of the screen anywhere, the screen is that big from the floor to the roof and side to side
So the vehicles won't even move from the platforms that you walk on to board?
 

Alektronic

Well-Known Member
Wait, though, the seats won't extend at all? From what we've seen, each row of seats is in a kind of back-less box with a garage door front. I guess most of us were assuming that after the garage door opens, the rides would push forward some, otherwise, you would still be in the box, spoiling your peripheral vision. Can you clarify?

Like I said before, the ride is not like Soarin'. That is the great part of the design, it doesn't need to push out into the screen, all you see is screen up and down and left and right, no screen edges, and you won't see any people legs above you or anything like that and you have to physically turn your head to the side to see the riders beside you, and why would you? All the action is in front of you.
 

TyTrap

Well-Known Member
Don't worry, there is plenty of movement, but the way it is programmed it is pretty seamless and smooth.
I'm still kinda bummed we won't actually get to ride a banshee. As we all know about a certain pic that was floating around the web. Why did that concept get scrapped. Was it too expensive or too technologically challenging to get up and running?
 

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