AVATAR land construction progress

[ToTBellHop]

Based upon the size of the space, I can't imagine the boat ride being as long as Pirates. I would imagine more along the lines of the Gran Fiesta Tour although certainly with much better visuals.

 

[doctornick]

Based upon the size of the space, I can't imagine the boat ride being as long as Pirates. I would imagine more along the lines of the Gran Fiesta Tour although certainly with much better visuals.

We don't know the space yet, really, though. It's not clear if the one rectangular concrete pad is all of the show space or if there is another level with a drop or if there will be an adjacent outdoor area. It's possible that the one area was put in first because it will be the lowest floor of a multi level building (the queue for the flying ride is above that space).

We need new aerials to help try to figure stuff out.

 

[Fox&Hound]

Based upon the size of the space, I can't imagine the boat ride being as long as Pirates. I would imagine more along the lines of the Gran Fiesta Tour although certainly with much better visuals.

That's a huge plot of land. With only two rides I'd think the boat ride would be a lengthy ride equivalent to Pirates....Here's to hoping, anyway!

 

[doctornick]

That's a huge plot of land. With only two rides I'd think the boat ride would be a lengthy ride equivalent to Pirates....Here's to hoping, anyway!

There's certainly room for a very long boat immersive boat ride. The question is how much land and money is being allocated for it. As I've said before, I'm cautiously optimistic overall about about project due to Cameron's involvement -- I don't think he'd settle for "good enough" but will want a top notch land and that requires top notch attractions.

At this point, we see a concrete pad that will form the basis of the boat ride. It's not clear if that is the entirety of the show building or not. Furthermore, we haven't see updated aerials for a bit so there might be a greater footprint having been developed in the interim (or we might see other structures that might indicate multiple levels/a drop or an outdoor portion).

 

[articos]

So now that construction is finally well underway, I have a couple of question i'd like to ask specifically about the boat ride, anyone who has knowledge of it. I understand if you can't answer, but i'll try to be vague enough that you might be able to answer. They're mostly regarding the type of expectations I should set. So for anyone like @articos @Lee @marni1971 or anyone else, here are my (hopefully vague enough and answerable) questions-

1- Approximately how long (time wise) will the boat ride be? Just a ballpark figure would be great.
2- What will the thrill level be? Flat and slow like IASW/Land/Mexico, or with drop(s) like POTC or higher?
3- What would be the ACTUAL realistic "ticket" (A, B, C, D or E ticket) ranking in terms of scale/quality?
4- Approximately what percent of the ride uses physical sets and AA's? Versus how much is video I mean.

In regards to question 3, I realize leaked blueprints labeled the boat ride as a C ticket, but i'm asking again because plans can change in three years. I hope it's better than a C ticket. 7DMT and even Mermaid were both reportedly classified as D tickets internally. The prospect of a possibly lesser attraction than Mermaid isn't a comforting thought. Especially given that it will be only one of two potentially good rides (not counting the carnival spinner nonsense) in the park without a height limit (or for people who are averse to thrills). So I want the ride to be good.

Any other information we haven't heard yet would be welcome as well if you guys can provide it, but those four questions are my main points of concern at the moment.

I don't want to ignore your questions, but I'm not ready/able to answer these at this point. I will say Avatar is a high priority/high profile project, and I expect it will live up.

 

[marni1971]

So now that construction is finally well underway, I have a couple of question i'd like to ask specifically about the boat ride

Sorry I missed this. I have no specific info about any possible boat ride further than it was originally planned.

I do know there was a concern - much like DAK 1997-8 - of the area being lacklustre. Or much like FLE a lot of style and lacking substance. Perhaps this points to the boat being re-added. I'd hope so.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

That's a huge plot of land. With only two rides I'd think the boat ride would be a lengthy ride equivalent to Pirates....Here's to hoping, anyway!

Yes, I'm hoping a for at least the length of Pirates and it would be even better if it's the length of Splash Mountain. I've never seen blueprints of Splash but have been on the ride many times. We were told that the boat ride would be indoors and outdoors. It would be cool if the layout is like Splash.

 

[matt9112]

Yes, I'm hoping a for at least the length of Pirates and it would be even better if it's the length of Splash Mountain. I've never seen blueprints of Splash but have been on the ride many times. We were told that the boat ride would be indoors and outdoors. It would be cool if the layout is like Splash.

splash is a log flume and thus has a very narrow flume and can be condensed much more than a traditional boat ride like pirates.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

splash is a log flume and thus has a very narrow flume and can be condensed much more than a traditional boat ride like pirates.

Your correct, the traditional boat ride would have a higher rider per hour vs. the log flume. I hope each attraction will have the single rider line along with the Soarin' update.

 

[JordanNite]

Iger has thrown a new man at the works that should push to be finished by the year 2045.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I don't want to ignore your questions, but I'm not ready/able to answer these at this point. I will say Avatar is a high priority/high profile project, and I expect it will live up.

Sorry I missed this. I have no specific info about any possible boat ride further than it was originally planned.

I do know there was a concern - much like DAK 1997-8 - of the area being lacklustre. Or much like FLE a lot of style and lacking substance. Perhaps this points to the boat being re-added. I'd hope so.

It would indeed be lackluster with only one attraction, especially if it wasn't even a real ride (simulator). Tis already a bummer that the third ride was slashed (stated to be a real E ticket ride). Cutting and/or building a poor quality boat ride would basically ruin the interest I have for this project, all style and no substance like New Fantasyland. I'm glad you've heard there are concerns within the company about quality and substance. I hope those concerns are being considered by the higher ups who determine budgets and are being seriously considered.

Thanks to both of you for responding BTW, it's too bad so many important bits of info about the scale and quality of this project still elude us (or you're unable to divulge). I want to be excited for this project, but I just can't risk disappointment after New Fantasyland. The leaked blueprints and slow troubled development aren't helping my doubts. One Soarin-like simulator and a POSSIBLE boat ride that doesn't even seem to qualify as an E or D ticket in Imagineer's eyes doesn't exactly give me reason to celebrate. The only hope for me is the fact that Joe Rohde and James Cameron are involved, but it depends on how much power they have over Disney executives. Given that the budget has reportedly been slashed by a great deal and a third ride was cut without any apparent public backlash from Cameron (I doubt he approves), one would assume Disney has managed to find a way to shut him up.

It's worrisome if you're still not 100% sure the boat ride is included, Martin. I hope it's just because you're working off of older information. I had assumed based on this thread's comments and aerial shots that we had long since dispelled any potential doubts about the boat ride's inclusion. Especially since this is the one ride that has consistently been used in presentations for the land.

Somewhat related- a decent ballpark figure for Avatar Land's budget is another vital piece of information I've still yet to see fully nailed down by anyone with proven inside connections to the company. There are plenty of rumors and guesses, too many in fact. I've seen older quotes as high as $800 million (early on likely before budget cuts and loss of the third ride), but i've also heard more recent distressing rumors of $600 mil to even $500 mil and below. That's not far off of New Fantasyland's reported sub-$500 mil budget. Not IMHO a very promising thought given the way FLE turned out. One of its rides was a clone of a lackluster DCA ride (which likely saved a lot of cash), another was a relocated and duplicated old spinner, and the Mine Train ended up criminally short and missing a lot of its originally intended show scenes and such (they also repurposed numerous figures from the original Snow White ride). FLE was also comprised of a plentiful amount of bland filler.

Would be a shame if it only ends up getting a roughly New Fantasyland sized budget in the end. That Zsolt Hormay rockwork isn't going to be cheap, nor all the new bioluminescent plant technology scattered over the land. I'm not complaining about any of those elements (they're welcome), but it would be very sad if it ate into the quality of the rides themselves. A healthy amount of the budget needs to go to the rides, including scenery and animatronics within the rides. There's sadly also plenty of time for more budget cuts to occur, they're still only at the foundation and steel framework stages.

 

[articos]

It would indeed be lackluster with only one attraction, especially if it wasn't even a real ride (simulator). Tis already a bummer that the third ride was slashed (stated to be a real E ticket ride). Cutting and/or building a poor quality boat ride would basically ruin the interest I have for this project, all style and no substance like New Fantasyland. I'm glad you've heard there are concerns within the company about quality and substance. I hope those concerns are being considered by the higher ups who determine budgets and are being seriously considered.

Thanks to both of you for responding BTW, it's too bad so many important bits of info about the scale and quality of this project still elude us (or you're unable to divulge). I want to be excited for this project, but I just can't risk disappointment after New Fantasyland. The leaked blueprints and slow troubled development aren't helping my doubts. One Soarin-like simulator and a POSSIBLE boat ride that doesn't even seem to qualify as an E or D ticket in Imagineer's eyes doesn't exactly give me reason to celebrate. The only hope for me is the fact that Joe Rohde and James Cameron are involved, but it depends on how much power they have over Disney executives. Given that the budget has reportedly been slashed by a great deal and a third ride was cut without any apparent public backlash from Cameron (I doubt he approves), one would assume Disney has managed to find a way to shut him up.

It's worrisome if you're still not 100% sure the boat ride is included, Martin. I hope it's just because you're working off of older information. I had assumed based on this thread's comments and aerial shots that we had long since dispelled any potential doubts about the boat ride's inclusion. Especially since this is the one ride that has consistently been used in presentations for the land.

Somewhat related- a decent ballpark figure for Avatar Land's budget is another vital piece of information I've still yet to see fully nailed down by anyone with proven inside connections to the company. There are plenty of rumors and guesses, too many in fact. I've seen older quotes as high as $800 million (early on likely before budget cuts and loss of the third ride), but i've also heard more recent distressing rumors of $600 mil to even $500 mil and below. That's not far off of New Fantasyland's reported sub-$500 mil budget. Not IMHO a very promising thought given the way FLE turned out. One of its rides was a clone of a lackluster DCA ride (which likely saved a lot of cash), another was a relocated and duplicated old spinner, and the Mine Train ended up criminally short and missing a lot of its originally intended show scenes and such (they also repurposed numerous figures from the original Snow White ride). FLE was also comprised of a plentiful amount of bland filler.

Would be a shame if it only ends up getting a roughly New Fantasyland sized budget in the end. That Zsolt Hormay rockwork isn't going to be cheap, nor all the new bioluminescent plant technology scattered over the land. I'm not complaining about any of those elements (they're welcome), but it would be very sad if it ate into the quality of the rides themselves. A healthy amount of the budget needs to go to the rides, including scenery and animatronics within the rides. There's sadly also plenty of time for more budget cuts to occur, they're still only at the foundation and steel framework stages.

I think you can be more optimistic than pessimistic. And I'll say that Cameron will not allow something that will ultimately disappoint to be attached to his name or franchise. Art direction is something that Rohde excels at, so I think that can be checked off as something to look forward to as well. I will say that I'm looking forward to this when it's done. More will come out as it continues building out.

 

[flyerjab]

I think you can be more optimistic than pessimistic. And I'll say that Cameron will not allow something that will ultimately disappoint to be attached to his name or franchise. Art direction is something that Rohde excels at, so I think that can be checked off as something to look forward to as well. I will say that I'm looking forward to this when it's done. More will come out as it continues building out.

Thanks for that little dose of optimism.

 

[twebber55]

I think you can be more optimistic than pessimistic. And I'll say that Cameron will not allow something that will ultimately disappoint to be attached to his name or franchise. Art direction is something that Rohde excels at, so I think that can be checked off as something to look forward to as well. I will say that I'm looking forward to this when it's done. More will come out as it continues building out.

I believe dylan cole also played a role in art direction

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Well I have a certain degree of hope. I'm actually probably one of the least optimistic people on these boards regarding Avatar Land. I'm not counting those who are against even the very idea, that's not why i'm worried. Even WDW1974 said the project was quality and would most likely be great. Heck I even saw a post over at Orlando United from HateToFly (who is usually very anti WDW and pro Universal) who said he expected the land to be awesome (though not anywhere near as good as anything Universal is doing of course, he's quick to say that King Kong is going to blow the "Soarin" sim out of the water).

I'm just kind of numb to all the disappointment at this point. I can't invest any more than half-hearted optimism until i've seen real rides and substance to get excited about. Rohde and Cameron are the two bolts holding this project together, it's wholly apparent that everything would fall apart without them.

A great land with some fantastic classic Disney quality rides is what I expect from this project. It's quite apparent that the land will be quite a sight to look at (particularly at night), but looks aren't even close to enough. Awesome rides (not simulators) are desperately needed.

Hopefully we get a lot of new info at D23, more than the vague teases and concept art we've gotten so far. Especially if what '74 and PhotoDave said was true about Star Wars not being announced for DHS (though Disneyland and its Star Wars land might be the focus instead of anything from WDW).

 

[Hakunamatata]

Based upon the size of the space, I can't imagine the boat ride being as long as Pirates. I would imagine more along the lines of the Gran Fiesta Tour although certainly with much better visuals.

If they have a video of a grotto with people drinking fruity beverages this would automatically be an E ticket.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

I believe dylan cole also played a role in art direction

And Zsolt Hormay is doing the Rockwork

 

[twebber55]

And Zsolt Hormay is doing the Rockwork

these two alone give me hope

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

these two alone give me hope

I know, Hopefully Cameron and Rhode will fight for those two to swing for the fences. Disney has a lot to lose if they don't hit it out of the park.

 

[Tom]

There no doubt in anyone's mind that the land itself will be unbelievably impressive. The only outstanding questions are how much they're going to spend INSIDE the buildings.