AVATAR land construction progress

[twebber55]

You mean when they shifted 8 from a firm Summer to a firm Holiday release after the wildly successful holiday opening of 7? That isn't even remotely the same thing as Avatar shifting off a firm release date two years in the future to an indefinite, who-knows-if-it-will-ever-be-made date around the end of the decade (maybe).

And where are those Cirque figures from?

la times feel free to look them up if it means that much to you

 

[twebber55]

sadly, it's still relevant.

the movie? yes i agree

 

[Casper Gutman]

la times feel free to look them up if it means that much to you

I can't access LA Times articles - not a subscriber. The first article that comes up in a search for LA Times Avatar, by the way, is "Cirque du Soleil's Turok - The First Flight Misses What's Great About Cirque or 'Avatar' and the first sentence is "James Cameron's Avatar is a movie that everyone saw, but no one can remember." And that's all I'm allowed to read.

To judge the show's actual success, of course, we need to wait a bit and peel away the PR hyperbole.

 

[twebber55]

I can't access LA Times articles - not a subscriber. The first article that comes up in a search for LA Times Avatar, by the way, is "Cirque du Soleil's Turok - The First Flight Misses What's Great About Cirque or 'Avatar' and the first sentence is "James Cameron's Avatar is a movie that everyone saw, but no one can remember." And that's all I'm allowed to read.

To judge the show's actual success, of course, we need to wait a bit and peel away the PR hyperbole.

good lord you actually looked it up? LOL
heres my last thought on it since this is the wrong board and old debate.....
its the all time #1 movie (600 million more than Titanic and Force Awakens)
its the all time #1 home market gross Blu Ray again more than Force Awakens
people loved the environment and wanted to experience it
DAK is about environments moreso than characters
you may not have liked it (i didnt even see it in the theater) but a lot of people did
its themes matches that of DAK
DAK needs an evening/night land
Avatars environment adapts well to a theme park setting so does cars, HP, (toy tory does not)

and guess what you still get Star Wars and Marvel in theme parks which is a great thing we all win

 

[Casper Gutman]

good lord you actually looked it up? LOL
heres my last thought on it since this is the wrong board and old debate.....
its the all time #1 movie (600 million more than Titanic and Force Awakens)
its the all time #1 home market gross Blu Ray again more than Force Awakens
people loved the environment and wanted to experience it
DAK is about environments moreso than characters
you may not have liked it (i didnt even see it in the theater) but a lot of people did
its themes matches that of DAK
DAK needs an evening/night land
Avatars environment adapts well to a theme park setting so does cars, HP, (toy tory does not)

and guess what you still get Star Wars and Marvel in theme parks which is a great thing we all win

Of course I looked it up. I wanted to analyze the context - we were having a discussion.

As to the #1 thing - that's true if you don't adjust for inflation (in which case it falls to 15, still impressive.) The key point, however, is that Avatar resonated on a technological, not a cultural level. It benefited from the advent of 3-D and Blu-Ray, industry developments that account for a significant part of its take. Truly lasting films like Star Wars and Titanic resonate on a cultural level, tapping into some aspect of the zeitgeist. Avatar did not do that. Confusing these two kinds of resonance is the mistake Iger made.

 

[twebber55]

Of course I looked it up. I wanted to analyze the context - we were having a discussion.

As to the #1 thing - that's true if you don't adjust for inflation (in which case it falls to 15, still impressive.) The key point, however, is that Avatar resonated on a technological, not a cultural level. It benefited from the advent of 3-D and Blu-Ray, industry developments that account for a significant part of its take. Truly lasting films like Star Wars and Titanic resonate on a cultural level, tapping into some aspect of the zeitgeist. Avatar did not do that. Confusing these two kinds of resonance is the mistake Iger made.

see thats wrong
its not #15 its more like #2
the 15 number is domestic but anyway its not important
i really do think people just want to be immersed and the long term success of the land will be based on the execution of the land. if the rides suck it wont be if they re good the land will be a success. there is a reason that Star tours is the 4th best ride in the park and never has long lines its just an average ride no were near as popular as TOT. Now if we just went by IP Star Tours would have a 3 hour line daily

 

[flyerjab]

see thats wrong
its not #15 its more like #2
the 15 number is domestic but anyway its not important
i really do think people just want to be immersed and the long term success of the land will be based on the execution of the land. if the rides suck it wont be if they re good the land will be a success. there is a reason that Star tours is the 4th best ride in the park and never has long lines its just an average ride no were near as popular as TOT. Now if we just went by IP Star Tours would have a 3 hour line daily

You know that I am with you on this one. I have only experienced Pandora and Mysterious Island on videos on YouTube at this point. I will not deny that there are parts of that park that are staggeringly beautiful. But I see the same level of detail and beauty when I see what is being done with Pandora.

The debate of top grossing movie of all time vs. lack of impact upon the cultural zeitgeist is a great one. To me, however, if the level of detail and theming is thoroughly immersive, and the rides are well done, the people will come, and will keep coming. That to me is a success. We have about 2 months to start finding out.

 

[twebber55]

You know that I am with you on this one. I have only experienced Pandora and Mysterious Island on videos on YouTube at this point. I will not deny that there are parts of that park that are staggeringly beautiful. But I see the same level of detail and beauty when I see what is being done with Pandora.

The debate of top grossing movie of all time vs. lack of impact upon the cultural zeitgeist is a great one. To me, however, if the level of detail and theming is thoroughly immersive, and the rides are well done, the people will come, and will keep coming. That to me is a success. We have about 2 months to start finding out.

so did Joe spill the beans to you LOL

 

[Daveeeeed]

You know that I am with you on this one. I have only experienced Pandora and Mysterious Island on videos on YouTube at this point. I will not deny that there are parts of that park that are staggeringly beautiful. But I see the same level of detail and beauty when I see what is being done with Pandora.

The debate of top grossing movie of all time vs. lack of impact upon the cultural zeitgeist is a great one. To me, however, if the level of detail and theming is thoroughly immersive, and the rides are well done, the people will come, and will keep coming. That to me is a success. We have about 2 months to start finding out.

As excited as I am for Pandora, I doubt it will be as good as either Mysterious Island or American Waterfront, but it does not have to be.

Those two lands are far superior to any land in the Western Hemisphere, and really the world. The only non-ip land that could rival it is probably DLP's Frontierland, but that doesn't even come close. And while technically based on ips (Jules Verne) it's still a different style. Captain Nemo is timeless... Avatar is not. Nevertheless, I'm still very excited and am one of those who thinks Pandora will fit nicely in Animal Kingdom.

 

[twebber55]

As excited as I am for Pandora, I doubt it will be as good as either Mysterious Island or American Waterfront, but it does not have to be.

Those two lands are far superior to any land in the Western Hemisphere, and really the world. The only non-ip land that could rival it is probably DLP's Frontierland, but that doesn't even come close.

BTW my original comment was not my opinion but from someone who is quite a bit more informed than i am

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

But they didn't design a new property. They licensed one that someone else controls. Entertainment companies do that because of the logic of synergy. The practice carries advantages and disadvantages - except in this case Disney gets almost no advantages and plenty of disadvantages that don't come with developing a new property (or using a property they control.)

And Pandora looks very pretty. It also doesn't look anywhere in the same league as Mysterious Island - not even close.

I haven't been to see Mysterious Island. When did you travel there?

 

[truecoat]

I can't access LA Times articles - not a subscriber. The first article that comes up in a search for LA Times Avatar, by the way, is "Cirque du Soleil's Turok - The First Flight Misses What's Great About Cirque or 'Avatar' and the first sentence is "James Cameron's Avatar is a movie that everyone saw, but no one can remember." And that's all I'm allowed to read.

To judge the show's actual success, of course, we need to wait a bit and peel away the PR hyperbole.

Here's some figures.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Here's some figures.

View attachment 194909

I must say Kurios in particular was spectacular. One of the best productions I've ever seen Circus or musical (Broadway or traveling).

 

[doctornick]

there is a reason that Star tours is the 4th best ride in the park and never has long lines its just an average ride no were near as popular as TOT. Now if we just went by IP Star Tours would have a 3 hour line daily

To be fair, Star Tours has a massive capacity with 6 theaters. Disneyland which has fewer theaters (4, I think) as well as much higher park attendance has significant waits for the ride all the time.

 

[twebber55]

To be fair, Star Tours has a massive capacity with 6 theaters. Disneyland which has fewer theaters (4, I think) as well as much higher park attendance has significant waits for the ride all the time.

that doesnt change the fact that guest rate it 4th best ride on the park

 

[RSoxNo1]

One might ask, if (as Rhode indicates here) they anticipate many (most) guests won't have much familiarity with Avatar, what is the advantage of basing the land off a media franchise at all? The logic behind synergy is that each iteration of the franchise reinforces all the others. That doesn't seem likely here, for reasons the article makes clear. To go a step further, the logic behind transmedia storytelling, the accelerated form of synergy that drives the modern entertainment industry, is that each iteration of the franchise serves as a serialized installment that advances the overall story in a unique way, thereby coercing fans to invest in every product or miss out on the story. Avatar Land is set after the planned 4 movies and was designed with little or no knowledge of what they contain, thereby making it impossible for the land to tie into those stories in a meaningful way. In fact, this was likely the primary motivation in setting the land in the distant future - it doesn't tie Cameron's hands in any way as he plans the next installments.

In short, Disney will glean the disadvantages of synergy - lack of full control of the property, tying their investment's fortunes to unproduced media (what becomes of the land if the Avatar sequels come out and are cultural laughingstocks? Or what if the mercurial Cameron decides that the last Avatar film ends with Pandora exploding?) - with none of the advantages.

If you design your franchised land with the assumption that guests don't know the franchise, why not just design a new land?

I look at it as they're using AVATAR to tell the story they want to tell. There are connections being made that tie it back to the movie but it's a way to integrate IP into a park in an appropriate way. Think of it how the Lion King characters are used in The Land Pavilion or Ellen, Bill Nye and Alex Trebek are used in the Energy Pavilion.

I go back to my original sales pitch to others on the AVATAR brand, especially to people that didn't like the movie. If AVATAR didn't exist and Disney announced a partnership with James Cameron to build a mythical land of flora and fauna in the Animal Kingdom, we would be all for it. This land will have very little to do with the linear story telling of AVATAR and focus on what Disney does best, non linear story telling. It looks like it's taking the parts of AVATAR that do make sense within the context of Disney's Animal Kingdom and making it work.

When this was announced it was far from the best fit, but it was given a healthy budget and the appropriate creative control from Joe Rohde to make it fit into the park.

 

[Incomudro]

I beg t9 to differ. Every commercial I have seen shows that blue woman and a female voice.

That makes it girly?

 

[Incomudro]

I know Cameron has collaborated. And I suspect minor elements he is planning for the new movies will pop up in the land. But they will be minor, and the key word is planning. Cameron could cancel all future plans for the series (and I think there's about a 45% chance he does) and Disney would have no recourse because they don't control it.

As to why I think it's not in the same league as Mysterious Island - I base that opinion on the same images and video you use to support your opposing opinion. So far, we have seen some slightly lackluster "floating" rocks and some foliage with unusual fake plants. I've said before that it looks most reminiscent of Jurassic Park at IOA, more "plantlife" then built structures, an area Universal has proved eager to make more interesting.

"Slightly lackluster?"
This is an enormous structure of a construction style never seen before, that guests will be able to walk under.
Do you understand the scale of this, and that the perspective looking around will be from about six feet high?
Towering in the back is the themed show building for Flight of Passage - a ride we know little about right now - but which will likely be amazing.

 

[roj2323]

Umm............. I thought this was the construction progress thread.

 

[disney4life2008]

That makes it girly?

Ugh Yes. I don't see anything boy/man related