AVATAR land construction progress

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
in a sense they are
they took a loose idea and made an incredible land that will rival Mysterious Island at Disney Sea in terms of immersion

But they didn't design a new property. They licensed one that someone else controls. Entertainment companies do that because of the logic of synergy. The practice carries advantages and disadvantages - except in this case Disney gets almost no advantages and plenty of disadvantages that don't come with developing a new property (or using a property they control.)

And Pandora looks very pretty. It also doesn't look anywhere in the same league as Mysterious Island - not even close.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
But they didn't design a new property. They licensed one that someone else controls. Entertainment companies do that because of the logic of synergy. The practice carries advantages and disadvantages - except in this case Disney gets almost no advantages and plenty of disadvantages that don't come with developing a new property (or using a property they control.)

And Pandora looks very pretty. It also doesn't look anywhere in the same league as Mysterious Island - not even close.
how do you know its not in the same league
 

disney4life2008

Well-Known Member
One might ask, if (as Rhode indicates here) they anticipate many (most) guests won't have much familiarity with Avatar, what is the advantage of basing the land off a media franchise at all? The logic behind synergy is that each iteration of the franchise reinforces all the others. That doesn't seem likely here, for reasons the article makes clear. To go a step further, the logic behind transmedia storytelling, the accelerated form of synergy that drives the modern entertainment industry, is that each iteration of the franchise serves as a serialized installment that advances the overall story in a unique way, thereby coercing fans to invest in every product or miss out on the story. Avatar Land is set after the planned 4 movies and was designed with little or no knowledge of what they contain, thereby making it impossible for the land to tie into those stories in a meaningful way. In fact, this was likely the primary motivation in setting the land in the distant future - it doesn't tie Cameron's hands in any way as he plans the next installments.

In short, Disney will glean the disadvantages of synergy - lack of full control of the property, tying their investment's fortunes to unproduced media (what becomes of the land if the Avatar sequels come out and are cultural laughingstocks? Or what if the mercurial Cameron decides that the last Avatar film ends with Pandora exploding?) - with none of the advantages.

If you design your franchised land with the assumption that guests don't know the franchise, why not just design a new land?

in a sense they are
they took a loose idea and made an incredible land that will rival Mysterious Island at Disney Sea in terms of immersion

I have yet to see anything incredible from video or pictures. Here is the reality, the typical Disney tourist will eat it up because its at Disney. You could remove the IP and people will still eat it up. In no way do i think its a game changer and worse, its an embarrassment it took this long to open. That coupled with rivers of light, the awful night safari, and the whole rebranding of animal kingdom coming alive at night has been tragic.

But I fully expect 120 minute plus waits. And i already know once the rides open, animal kingdom will go to a tired park.
 

disney4life2008

Well-Known Member
James Cameron has been collaborating with disney building this land. As he said in recent interviews, there will be things in this land that are involved in all new installments and original movie. Avatar was huge when it was released, and a lot of people have seen the movie even though it's not really a movie that pops in the heads of people commonly. The other reason i believe disney choice an existing IP to tie into the land was because they didn't really have to write a story behind the land and all the background details, ect. Avatar is a stunning movie just for how small some details are, A entire language made for the movie? Check, original species, Plants, Cultures, and Religions? Check, and finally, Avatar will most likely bring in all kinds of guest (Wont be something viewed as girly)

I beg t9 to differ. Every commercial I have seen shows that blue woman and a female voice.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
I have yet to see anything incredible from video or pictures. Here is the reality, the typical Disney tourist will eat it up because its at Disney. You could remove the IP and people will still eat it up. In no way do i think its a game changer and worse, its an embarrassment it took this long to open. That coupled with rivers of light, the awful night safari, and the whole rebranding of animal kingdom coming alive at night has been tragic.

But I fully expect 120 minute plus waits. And i already know once the rides open, animal kingdom will go to a tired park.
im sure Cameron heard very similar things when he was releasing the movie or doing the Toruk Cirque show etc all successful
so im going on history as an indicator on whether the land will be successful

to quote Patrick Henry "i know of no way of judging the future but by the pass"

BTW this is in the wrong thread if you would like to continue this discussion move over to the original Avatar thread
 

disney4life2008

Well-Known Member
im sure Cameron heard very similar things when he was releasing the movie or doing the Toruk Cirque show etc all successful
so im going on history as an indicator on whether the land will be successful

to quote Patrick Henry "i know of no way of judging the future but by the pass"

BTW this is in the wrong thread if you would like to continue this discussion move over to the original Avatar thread

Lol the movie is one thing a land is another where it is well known it has no immense fan base.
 

disney4life2008

Well-Known Member
and the cirque show is probably successful because of what?

You do realize that is in las Vegas? That is no different than Disney world. People will eat it up. Anytime a woman can sit on a stage and bobble her head while playing with chopsticks, and people pay money to see that , you know you are in Vegas.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
James Cameron has been collaborating with disney building this land. As he said in recent interviews, there will be things in this land that are involved in all new installments and original movie. Avatar was huge when it was released, and a lot of people have seen the movie even though it's not really a movie that pops in the heads of people commonly. The other reason i believe disney choice an existing IP to tie into the land was because they didn't really have to write a story behind the land and all the background details, ect. Avatar is a stunning movie just for how small some details are, A entire language made for the movie? Check, original species, Plants, Cultures, and Religions? Check, and finally, Avatar will most likely bring in all kinds of guest (Wont be something viewed as girly)

I know Cameron has collaborated. And I suspect minor elements he is planning for the new movies will pop up in the land. But they will be minor, and the key word is planning. Cameron could cancel all future plans for the series (and I think there's about a 45% chance he does) and Disney would have no recourse because they don't control it.

As to why I think it's not in the same league as Mysterious Island - I base that opinion on the same images and video you use to support your opposing opinion. So far, we have seen some slightly lackluster "floating" rocks and some foliage with unusual fake plants. I've said before that it looks most reminiscent of Jurassic Park at IOA, more "plantlife" then built structures, an area Universal has proved eager to make more interesting.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
its a traveling tour so...

Do we have the actual data on how successful the Cirque show is in relation to their other shows?

Here's the most recent example of Avatar's questionable popularity - last week it was announced that the next film was indefinitely delayed. Had that happened with Star Wars or Marvel, the internet would have melted down. For Avatar, the announcement made barely a ripple.
 

disney4life2008

Well-Known Member
so you re saying when JC and his avatar team, team up and partner with a really good brand they produce an excellent product which in turn is very successful, in that case we can agree

I didn't say i disagree. I clearly said people will eat it up. People will eat up avatar land even more because it's Disney. If for anything, i expect the movie to suddenly be released and the new generation will fall in love all over again. T
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Do we have the actual data on how successful the Cirque show is in relation to their other shows?

Here's the most recent example of Avatar's questionable popularity - last week it was announced that the next film was indefinitely delayed. Had that happened with Star Wars or Marvel, the internet would have melted down. For Avatar, the announcement made barely a ripple.
yes we do
top cirque show in the world and one of the top tours period in the world
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Do we have the actual data on how successful the Cirque show is in relation to their other shows?

Here's the most recent example of Avatar's questionable popularity - last week it was announced that the next film was indefinitely delayed. Had that happened with Star Wars or Marvel, the internet would have melted down. For Avatar, the announcement made barely a ripple.
you mean like episode 8 was delayed?
 

disney4life2008

Well-Known Member
Do we have the actual data on how successful the Cirque show is in relation to their other shows?

Here's the most recent example of Avatar's questionable popularity - last week it was announced that the next film was indefinitely delayed. Had that happened with Star Wars or Marvel, the internet would have melted down. For Avatar, the announcement made barely a ripple.

Exactly. The issue with star wars and Marvel, they have huge multi generation following. Avatar has little to none. Yes, successful movie but completely old at this point.

Thought, if for anything the opening will do one of two things. Breathe life back into the movie or it will be a complete disappointment.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
you mean like episode 8 was delayed?

You mean when they shifted 8 from a firm Summer to a firm Holiday release after the wildly successful holiday opening of 7? That isn't even remotely the same thing as Avatar shifting off a firm release date two years in the future to an indefinite, who-knows-if-it-will-ever-be-made date around the end of the decade (maybe).

And where are those Cirque figures from?
 

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