AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
Yes, I too have started to use my real life name on this forum. I'm really called The Empress Lilly. Legally changed my name into it. It used to be 'Moonbeam' - yes, proud child of sixties hippie parents. 'Moonbeam Dominic Anthony III'.
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So you really are the real 'Empress Lilly'! I knew it. We met once. I was the one who asked for your autograph at Emerils last year.
 
OSUPhantom

OSUPhantom

Well-Known Member
George said:
Well, I guess we'll get to see how Cameron does at theme park attractions/lands. It sounds like Uni has so much going on that they could sign Rohde if they wanted and have lots o' things for him to do. Huge PR win in the theme park community.....At some point Disney is going to have to counter their competitor's momentum.
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Agreed. But the questions become; do they and with what?
 
JustInTime

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
Sped2424 said:
Ferngully came in came out in 1992 and Pocahontas came out 1995 the plot to avatar has way more similarities than pocahontas have you seen the film? Here is a link to the plot synopsis (x). The film basically follows a human who was on a demolition crew to the rainforest (Cough cough) they are running down the trees with a tree leveler, then he gets shrunk down and becomes the size of the fairies living there but after a while he learns and appreciates their way of life and even falls in love in a weird nighttime lit scene where things glow (Cough cough). The tree leveler comes to level their sacred tree which holds all life in the forest (sacred tree ewya etc) the main female character begins to fall in love with him and her jealous counterpart (sound familiar?) Doesn't trust the human for squat eventually the tree level makes its way to the forest he comes clean to the fairies they are shocked but he claims he has changed and wants to help, they all rise up and together fight back the tree leveler and save the sacred tree, zak and crystal then realize they must part ways but he leaves with a newfound appreciation for the land.
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You do realize that Pocahontas's story, while wildly exaggerated in the Disney version, is a true story right? Ferngully IS the story of Pocahontas practically. it doesn't matter when Ferngully was made because Pocahontas's story actually happened like 400 years ago...

If you are confused about anything, this wiki should help. Disney may have exaggerated, but they got the gist of it. Everything that came after (Ferngully and Avatar included) would be borrowing from her story. Not the other way around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocahontas
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
JustInTime said:
You do realize that Pocahontas's story, while wildly exaggerated in the Disney version, is a true story right? Ferngully IS the story of Pocahontas practically. it doesn't matter when Ferngully was made because Pocahontas's story actually happened like 400 years ago...

If you are confused about anything, this wiki should help. Disney may have exaggerated, but they got the gist of it. Everything that came after (Ferngully and Avatar included) would be borrowing from her story. Not the other way around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocahontas
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Her story wasn't "keep the evil English out, they can learn our ways"...her story was, "I got captured, converted to a new religion, and found the English superior."

Without getting overly political, she's a terrible choice to represent "American Indian" women. And, while the Disney movie tried to paint over that, it hasn't changed.

That being said, the early 90s to mid 90s were full of a new "green movement", and these movies shamelessly tried to capitalize on it.

"I be done seen about everything when I've seen an old tree cry..." - Classic Disney (not)
 
JustInTime

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
englanddg said:
Her story wasn't "keep the evil English out, they can learn our ways"...her story was, "I got captured, converted to a new religion, and found the English superior."

Without getting overly political, she's a terrible choice to represent "American Indian" women. And, while the Disney movie tried to paint over that, it hasn't changed.

That being said, the early 90s to mid 90s were full of a new "green movement", and these movies shamelessly tried to capitalize on it.

"I be done seen about everything when I've seen an old tree cry..." - Classic Disney (not)
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Not really. That is PART of her story. Her time with John Smith is what has been told and retold. That is the portion of her life that pop culture repeatedly borrows from...

Foreign people explore mysterious new land in search of gold, meet savages, savages allow one foreigner to become part of their world at the Chief's daughter's request, other foreigners still deiced to destroy their home in search of what they came for, mass genocide ensues.

Every single bullet point from her story happens in Avatar. Some happen in Ferngully.
 
Sped2424

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
JustInTime said:
You do realize that Pocahontas's story, while wildly exaggerated in the Disney version, is a true story right? Ferngully IS the story of Pocahontas practically. it doesn't matter when Ferngully was made because Pocahontas's story actually happened like 400 years ago...

If you are confused about anything, this wiki should help. Disney may have exaggerated, but they got the gist of it. Everything that came after (Ferngully and Avatar included) would be borrowing from her story. Not the other way around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocahontas
Click to expand...
Plot wise and theme wise is what I am arguing here, there is no sacred tree in real life and her story remains true with saving john smith yes but thats about it for the historical aspect. The issue here is the entire plot, john smith didn't help the natives all that much and if anything more conflicts arose soon after she saved him heck she even left the new world "In 1616, the Rolfes traveled to London. Pocahontas was presented to English society as an example of the civilized "savage" in hopes of stimulating investment in the Jamestown settlement" From the page you linked. Not the same story James Cameron or Disney or Ferngully was trying to tell. Which is what I was saying, the plot itself is borrowed and many of themes within the film Sacred tree, Outsider who becomes one with the native people, learning about how we are all connected to nature. The same issues aren't really evident in Pocahontas's actual history, she protected john smith yes, but then she later left to england and left that whole world behind her even converted to christianity, as a matter of fact it was never actually documented that her and john smith were even lovers at all, they weren't suitable for each other age wise either. So in essence if we are going to say that a movie copied or borrowed many themes and elements from another film which is what we were discussing that film for avatar would have been Fern Gully.
http://dbmoviesblog.wordpress.com/2...lly-the-last-rainforest-a-case-of-plagiarism/.
 
JustInTime

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
Sped2424 said:
Plot wise and theme wise is what I am arguing here, there is no sacred tree in real life and her story remains true with saving john smith yes but thats about it for the historical aspect. The issue here is the entire plot, john smith didn't help the natives all that much and if anything more conflicts arose soon after she saved him heck she even left the new world "In 1616, the Rolfes traveled to London. Pocahontas was presented to English society as an example of the civilized "savage" in hopes of stimulating investment in the Jamestown settlement" From the page you linked. Not the same story James Cameron or Disney or Ferngully was trying to tell. Which is what I was saying, the plot itself is borrowed and many of themes within the film Sacred tree, Outsider who becomes one with the native people, learning about how we are all connected to nature. The same issues aren't really evident in Pocahontas's actual history, she protected john smith yes, but then she later left to england and left that whole world behind her even converted to christianity, as a matter of fact it was never actually documented that her and john smith were even lovers at all, they weren't suitable for each other age wise either. So in essence if we are going to say that a movie copied or borrowed many themes and elements from another film which is what we were discussing that film for avatar would have been Fern Gully.
http://dbmoviesblog.wordpress.com/2...lly-the-last-rainforest-a-case-of-plagiarism/.
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okay, agree to disagree here. Lets move on.
 
Sped2424

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
JustInTime said:
Hey, please use the quote button. And clearly I was using the term in context of the two films. Both sides in both films consider the natives "savges". Don't be so touchy.
englanddg said:
Her story wasn't "keep the evil English out, they can learn our ways"...her story was, "I got captured, converted to a new religion, and found the English superior."

Without getting overly political, she's a terrible choice to represent "American Indian" women. And, while the Disney movie tried to paint over that, it hasn't changed.

That being said, the early 90s to mid 90s were full of a new "green movement", and these movies shamelessly tried to capitalize on it.

"I be done seen about everything when I've seen an old tree cry..." - Classic Disney (not)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
This is exactly my point you can't attribute her actual history to the romanticized films the themes prevalent in the film are not found in her actual backstory.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
JustInTime said:
Okay, got it, we don't agree. Gotcha. Cool.
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Go visit a reservation, and tell me how "the river runs" and how wonderful that arrogant "princess" who does nothing but according to the Disney story saves us all. (on the flip side, tell me how a harmony with nature makes for a great and successful civilization, it doesn't) This movie was a flop because it was overly preachy, had a terrible story with terrible characters who no one could relate with, and was the start of the crap we saw Disney turn out over the next decade.

In it's defense, this crap led to the rise of Pixar...

This movie was the start of the decline of the Disney storytelling mantra, as they went with making a 14 year old into a sexy 20 something who seduced a white dude, mixed in with crappy supporting characters and a forgettable plot.

Screw this movie.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Mulan was the last breath of the second great age of Disney Animantion, and even that movie saw the writing on the wall and resorted to jokes more than presentation.
 
dcibrando

dcibrando

Well-Known Member
In my opinion, the movies started going down after lion king because they were becoming more educational or with a history lesson in some ways rather than focusing on entertainment and fun. I liked some of them don't get me wrong I just feel like they took a different turn after the lion king. Tangled was the best movie (non-Pixar) since then by far
 
D

dman1373

Active Member
englanddg said:
Mulan was the last breath of the second great age of Disney Animantion, and even that movie saw the writing on the wall and resorted to jokes more than presentation.
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No, stitch was the last breath of fresh air in the second great age of Disney animation. But i agree that they started focusing too much on jokes then presentation or story.
 
B

bassman02

Member
Back to the subject at hand.
I really can't see why disney would be interested in AVATAR for AK.
Yes it was an ok movie,a bit too overhyped but visually stunning.
But in my opinion unless it was created by disney,albeit with a partner,ie Pixar.It has no place in a disney park,disney didn't make AVATAR.no one associates AVATAR with Disney so why build an entire land dedicated to it.
You say toy story,cars,wall-E monster inc to anyone and their mind goes straight to disney,or at least disney Pixar.
Say AVATAR and people go "oh yeah that was a good film,James Cameron did it right" see no mention of disney.

Using a non disney product just isn't how they work,or used to work,star wars has always seemed a bit out of place n not very disney.

I just think AVATARland will ruin AK.
 

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