AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

[The Empress Lilly]

For those who think the Spirit is paranoid...

I spoke to a friend last week who has this moderately succesful technology blog. Succesful articles by him, with lots of links back, get read ten to twenty thousand times. Not that many, but it's the right people. He explained the business to me.

He really does get paid interesting sums from the big players to spin technology news. In the order of 'XYZ Electronics' pays a blank $600 a month. In return, the blog is expected to keep track off and respond to critical news about XYZ Electronics with positive spin.
And 'Big Printer Company BPC' takes him on a nice trip every year, this year to Helsinki. All expenses paid, three day weekend, with one afternoon spend listening to marketing talk and hands-on experience with the latest models.
He's got a few more deals like those.

Meanwhile, the readers of the blog think they are reading two hobbyists. Well it is how they started alright.
I actually had no idea of the true extent, the sheer intensity, with which big companies are on top of social media.

 

[WDW1974]

Oh my! So WDW may be the first to cross the magical $100 per day number? (or am I doing my math wrong?)

Oh no, that's a GIVEN. ... I have heard ... well, let's just say some folks know that will be a tough psychological barrier and they have talked about all sorts of ways around that, including (and I am serious) eliminating one day tickets altogether, offering discounted one day tickets to two parks in one day (although I've heard but not confirmed that you wouldn't be able to use that at MK) and offering a higher priced one-day, but throwing in something (be it a QS meal, or extra FPs etc). Have no idea how serious they were, but the point is they don't want to sell one day tickets because they usually mean one day visitors. If they do, they want to make as much as possible. But they also know some folks will simply say enough is enough and they'll lose them. But you will see MAJOR changes in ticketing come next year.

If you thought Anaheim's ticket increases were extreme or are about this year's at WDW (as I am ... and God, I pray for the soul of the poor bumpkin that's gonna get me on the phone this week demanding my $65 refunded since my renewal clearly stated the lower price!) ... just wait. You ain't seen nothing yet.

What they seem to not grasp is 'New, New, New, But Not Really New Fantasyland' isn't Carsland and isn't WWoHP and, unlike those resorts that have much new product in addition to tout, WDW ... well, it doesn't.

Should an AP that sold for say $295 in early 2011, cost $525 in mid-2013 because Mermaid is open and Belle's meet and greet and two new dining facilities (the QS prices will be the highest you've ever seen at WDW!) ... Should a basic motel room at Pop Century start at $150? A moderate room start at $200?

 

[bubbles1812]

I don't think Disney hires anyone to do Internet stuff for them.

It would be a waste of money for them to do guerrilla marketing and clandestine blogging. They just don't need to do it.

Oh, they most certainly do. They don't want people criticizing their product (whether it is constructive or not) and its especially important in this day. Like you pointed out, Twitter is becoming a huge tool. So is facebook and other social media. Social media is virtually a totally ingrained part of society with no sign of that changing. People are constantly connected to the internet. Do they monitor everything? No. Do they comment on everything? No. Are they even capable of that? No.

But they definitely have people who monitor forums like this and have shills out there who post occasionally to try to paint Disney in a more positive light. I promise I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I know it happens. I've had several friends who have been paid to do stuff like that at a few companies. It's the same as you see for even say celebrities...they have PR teams that post comments on different sites to paint the actor/actress as the best thing since sliced bread. I've sometimes seen the same comment posted on 3 or 4 different websites in a day. Many companies, especially entertainment companies do it. Including Disney.

 

[WDW1974]

Yeah, I was personally a little surprised by that too. I find it more charming than Toontown, personally, but I don't understand the enormous amount of praise it is getting from some people....

I was surprised and, honestly as someone who knows, likes and respects Kevin, disappointed in his column. I was actually thinking of starting a thread, but I feared it would have hurt his feelings and come off like a bash-fest when I'd rather just see him pop in and discuss the topic ... somewhere.

I did find the following interesting, though, since it's a point I brought up here on MAGIC:

<<<The lack of a line is a touch troubling, though. If you had built a second Dumbo right next to the first one behind the castle, you would NOT get that line down to zero in the middle of a weekend afternoon. The only explanation is that demand is down, and it’s not hard to guess why. Location, location, location. Being off to one side of the park is making the ride less of a destination.

In retrospect, that makes perfect sense. The DAK spinner seldom has a line. The Aladdin spinner has a much shorter line than Dumbo. So for Dumbo to have a huge line a year ago, there could only be a couple of reasons why. Maybe it was because people just loved this movie from the 1940s and HAD to ride it. Or, it could be because it was a spinner ride in the middle of everything else. I guess we have our answer now. It makes me wonder if this playground will be around in five years if the ride never has a line. Perhaps the Seven Dwarfs Mine Coaster and the Little Mermaid will change the dynamic? >>>

But I don't get people who are lauding praise on this garish circus-themed kiddie area. Sure, it is more detailed than TentLand was. But there is nothing of substance there. They built a new train station ... a new restroom complex that they were too cheap to connect to the main MK water supply ... doubled Dumbo, yet removed it from an iconic area to one back in the middle of the swamp with lousy views that will only slightly improve when Mermaid opens ... and they repaved. Oh, and added the Casey Junior Pee While You Play Fountain and E-Coli Haven. How does someone look at this by any serious metrics of quality and say it is anything more than basic stuff largely for young children?

I am personally not surprised by this. They are anxious to reach their breaking point with consumers. Will be interesting to see how they handle it when attendance drops. They will eventually go to far at this rate...

This is Disney. One of the most arrogant companies out there. They don't believe attendance will ever drop. They believe they can get by, just by doing the very bare minium in their FLA parks as they have largely done for the last dozen plus years.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Yeah, I was personally a little surprised by that too. I find it more charming than Toontown, personally, but I don't understand the enormous amount of praise it is getting from some people....



I am personally not surprised by this. They are anxious to reach their breaking point with consumers. Will be interesting to see how they handle it when attendance drops. They will eventually go to far at this rate...

Honestly, I think WDW parks are all worth $100/day.

But I think even $105/day would start to make it seem outrageous.

Pricing is a delicate thing for any business. It's actually surprising when a price jumps and I realize I can live without something.

There's a brand of pizza I really like that used to be 2 for $10 until this spring. Then it was 2 for $11 for a while, and I was fine with it. Last week, it was 2 for $12. That's just $2 more than I was used to paying a few months ago but you know what, I realized I just didn't like the pizza that much for it to be $6/apiece. For some reason that prompted me to start buying pizza dough and going back to the homemade pizzas I used to make once upon a time (before I got lazy). The price increase forced me to be creative and go back to something I forget I used to like doing. I doubt I would go back to buying the frozen pizzas even if they went down to 2 for $8 now. They've lost me as a customer.

I go to WDW once a year. I've done this for probably 30 years now, more or less. There was maybe one year here or there when we didn't go down to Florida in the 90s, but the only other year we missed was in 2001 (when we were supposed to go in the fall but everything happened with 911 and we didn't want to fly for a while).

When we go to WDW, it's me, my husband, quite often both of my grown kids (they are in their 30s), and I have been taking my niece and nephew with us for the last 5 years (since they were both old enough to appreciate it). So that is 6 of us (sometimes just 5 of us, or 4 of us, if my kids can't come). It's a once a year thing I enjoy doing. I have no vices: I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't gamble, I don't buy fancy clothes, I don't have an addiction to Home Shopping, I don't go out to movies much, etc. So every month I put aside "vacation money" right off the top of my business profits and this is how I fund our Disney trips.

We usually stay for 6 days down in Orlando. The first day we don't go to any parks and we just enjoy the hotel and relax. Four of the days we have one=park tickets and the last day we all get park-hoppers because we like to try to hit all the parks on the last day as a family to do one thing in each one. I know it sounds crazy, but this is our last day tradition. It's like "The Amazing Race" and we hit MK first, then EPCOT, then DHS, and then DAK, and then we head to the airport.

I bet I would think about shrinking the trip to 5 days total if the ticket prices went up over $100. To be honest, I think I'd keep the 6 days if prices went up to $99...but the $100/day would be a psychological breaking point for me. I fund these trips out of my money so my husband doesn't chime in on anything but he would squawk about $100/day per ticket. I just know him too well.

If the price ever got up to something like $125/day, then I think we'd go down to a 4 day stay and we would probably start cutting out visits to DHS. If we ever had to do a 3 day stay, I'd probably have to start trying to cram EPCOT in on the day we flew in and then have MK be the first full day in Orlando and see AK the day we leave and eliminate the park hopping.

I know I've written a lot but I was kind of thinking through what I would do if the prices kept going up at Disney.

Unlike with my pizza example, the price would not get high enough to keep me from coming back with my family every year. I'd make it work whatever the cost because I just so enjoy going to WDW. But the length of my stay would decrease if prices went to $100 or more. I am content to pay up to $99/day and keep the current habit of 6 nights, but anything more and I'd be cutting back on the number of nights we're there.

Ironically, in my case at least, Disney would lose money if they raised the ticket prices over $100 because they'd lose what we spend at the hotel for that extra day. Pennywise and pound foolish, as they say.

 

[WDW1974]

For those who think the Spirit is paranoid...

I spoke to a friend last week who has this moderately succesful technology blog. Succesful articles by him, with lots of links back, get read ten to twenty thousand times. Not that many, but it's the right people. He explained the business to me.

He really does get paid interesting sums from the big players to spin technology news. In the order of 'XYZ Electronics' pays a blank $600 a month. In return, the blog is expected to keep track off and respond to critical news about XYZ Electronics with positive spin.
And 'Big Printer Company BPC' takes him on a nice trip every year, this year to Helsinki. All expenses paid, three day weekend, with one afternoon spend listening to marketing talk and hands-on experience with the latest models.
He's got a few more deals like those.

Meanwhile, the readers of the blog think they are reading two hobbyists. Well it is how they started alright.
I actually had no idea of the true extent, the sheer intensity, with which big companies are on top of social media.

It is DEEP ... very deep.

Be it Disney ... Hotel chains ... coffee companies ... tech companies ... auto companies etc ... and they absolutely have BRAND ADVOCATES that are paid to spin for the company. Like you say, most don't start out that way.

But if you're a fan of Disney who is net-savvy and you soon find you can get things for saying the right things and spinning to your audience, most people are gonna do it. they may even convince themselves they aren't doing anything wrong. They love Disney, after all. So what if they shill for it?

The fact you never know who is giving you the info and what is in it for them is makes all these Disney Lifestylers suspect.

Moving to O-Town to become a Disney Lifestyler has become sorta acceptable to the fan community and something to be desired. I can't imagine anything that would totally ruin the parks for me more than going 5-6 days a week, every week and convincing myself that it was a job and that I was providing a needed service and not simply avoiding life and contributing to society.

 

[ChrisFL]

I think the Disney parks are worth $110 or $120 a day...MEANING that I wish it would change the supply/demand curve and have LESS crowds, but Disney's profit could stay the same.

I hate going to WDW when its crowded, because it gets quite miserable, and its no longer considered a premium destination. I'm not trying to be snobbish, but its just what I think.

If that model were used, we wouldn't have to worry as much about fastpass, xpass, ypass, toys in the queue so you forget you're standing in line, etc.

 

[menamechris]

Honestly, I think WDW parks are all worth $100/day.

But I think even $105/day would start to make it seem outrageous.

Pricing is a delicate thing for any business. It's actually surprising when a price jumps and I realize I can live without something.

That was ALOT to read - but I did read it. The most basic flaw in Disney's potential cash grab with guests (especially in Florida) with an insane price hike is that they should be focused on EXTENDING a guest's stay at the resort - not raises prices to where people are cutting corners and leaving parks out. Especially with Universal's new value hotel that will be opening...tourists will be far less inclined to be loyal to Disney for an entire week-long trip. Especially if prices are competitive. And there will be many, MANY, (dare I say) "upper crust" guests that Disney so strives to attract, who will shortly say - "Wow, instead of Disney, how about a really nice trip to Hawaii or Europe..or even Las Vegas?"

 

[Patricia Melton]

I think the Disney parks are worth $110 or $120 a day...MEANING that I wish it would change the supply/demand curve and have LESS crowds, but Disney's profit could stay the same.

I hate going to WDW when its crowded, because it gets quite miserable, and its no longer considered a premium destination. I'm not trying to be snobbish, but its just what I think.

If that model were used, we wouldn't have to worry as much about fastpass, xpass, ypass, toys in the queue so you forget you're standing in line, etc.

You know what's funny? I've never used a FastPass.

But maybe that's because we go down to WDW every year so if we don't get on some ride one year, we'll do it the next year. Or it's because we use park hopper on the last day of the trip to get to anything we missed in each park on the day we were there.

I've never minded lines. I have my kids and my niece and nephew with me and my husband and a sea of people to watch. And yes I enjoy eavesdropping on others in line and hearing what they are talking about. Usually I end up striking up conversations with those in line.

I didn't intend to do this, but I think I might end up living my whole life and going to WDW every year without ever having used a FastPass.

 

[Patricia Melton]

That was ALOT to read - but I did read it. The most basic flaw in Disney's potential cash grab with guests (especially in Florida) with an insane price hike is that they should be focused on EXTENDING a guest's stay at the resort - not raises prices to where people are cutting corners and leaving parks out. Especially with Universal's new value hotel that will be opening...tourists will be far less inclined to be loyal to Disney for an entire week-long trip. Especially if prices are competitive. And there will be many, MANY, (dare I say) "upper crust" guests that Disney so strives to attract, who will shortly say - "Wow, instead of Disney, how about a really nice trip to Hawaii or Europe..or even Las Vegas?"

I really think that if the price goes over $100/day for a ticket that people will start cutting back days that they would have stayed.

And I think you are somewhat right in thinking people would choose to go to another destination instead. But, honestly, a trip to Disney is more expensive than going to Hawaii because of the park tickets at the current prices. With Hawaii, all you are spending is airfare, hotel, and then optional activities at the resort (like SCUBA for $100/day if you choose...but you don't have to do any extra activities and can just enjoy the beach). Food in Hawaii is cheaper than eating in the parks too.

But going to WDW is special and it's the destination that people want to go to, because there is nothing else like WDW.

Oddly enough, those very "upper crust" types you talked about (who have much more disposable money than anyone on this forum can dream about) would probably LIKE a per day price increase to $150/day or so because it would drastically lower the crowds. The "upper crust" is not pinching pennies. These would be people spending $4,000/night to sleep in the Cinderella Suite in the castle if Disney would let them. Having fewer people in the parks would be worth them spending $50 more on a ticket per day. Some of these people probably make $500 or more an hour at their firms...so $50/day extra for a ticket is chump change.

 

[HenryMystic]

$100 for any theme park is pushing it (Disney SEA excluded...maybe). $100+ for a day at DHS or DAK would be robbery.

 

[bubbles1812]

That was ALOT to read - but I did read it. The most basic flaw in Disney's potential cash grab with guests (especially in Florida) with an insane price hike is that they should be focused on EXTENDING a guest's stay at the resort - not raises prices to where people are cutting corners and leaving parks out. Especially with Universal's new value hotel that will be opening...tourists will be far less inclined to be loyal to Disney for an entire week-long trip. Especially if prices are competitive. And there will be many, MANY, (dare I say) "upper crust" guests that Disney so strives to attract, who will shortly say - "Wow, instead of Disney, how about a really nice trip to Hawaii or Europe..or even Las Vegas?"

Agree. Honestly, you can do A LOT with the budget many people have for Disney. You could sometimes spend a longer time in Europe and more cheaply depending on when you go compared to a Disney vacation. And Universal's new value hotel looks great! I believe it has some HP theming right? That will be a draw. People's loyalty only lasts to a certain price point...obviously this is different for different people but massive price hikes across the board aren't going to do much to help entice new customers or keep the old ones coming back. Forcing people to cut corners is not the way to run a successful business.

 

[menamechris]

Oddly enough, those very "upper crust" types you talked about (who have much more disposable money than anyone on this forum can dream about) would probably LIKE a per day price increase to $150/day or so because it would drastically lower the crowds. The "upper crust" is not pinching pennies. These would be people spending $4,000/night to sleep in the Cinderella Suite in the castle if Disney would let them. Having fewer people in the parks would be worth them spending $50 more on a ticket per day. Some of these people probably make $500 or more an hour at their firms...so $50/day extra for a ticket is chump change.

Hhmm..there are many different ways to interpret that. And no one way is correct.

The wealthy typically enjoy saving a buck as much as the next guy. Some are excessive, but most wealthy individuals remain that way because they are smart with money. The question being - is there a good chance that a good number of those families will splurge on a luxurious vacation somewhere around the globe? Or is their "splurge" going to be to hop a plane to Orlando and have a less than glamorous vacation for the same price at Disney World? Yes, Magic Kingdom can be terribly magically, but so can Paris...

 

[_Scar]

Inflation. Inflation. Inflation.

 

[bubbles1812]

Inflation. Inflation. Inflation. SUCKS

There. Fixed it for you

 

[Patricia Melton]

The thing people seem to forget when they talk about how "you could get a vacation in Europe for what you spend at Disney" is that some people don't want to go to Europe, even if it's less expensive.

Disney is a very controlled and distinct place to go to. I always know what we are going to get. I've been to Europe several times but there are a lot of hassles that go into traveling to other countries. I prefer those trips when it's just my husband and myself. Or just myself if I want to see a lot of art (which my husband is not into).

Going to WDW has much less hassle than going to Europe. There's also a very controlled though varied list of things you can do, in a relatively close proximity to one another.

I happen to love WDW for the Animal Kingdom Lodge. I went to Africa many years ago and loved it, but at my age now I feel less adventurous about all the hassles that trip had. I feel so much safer and relaxed going to the Disney version of Africa in Orlando. Just like I like the Disney version of Europe that's found at EPCOT. It's enough of the culture and the sights and sounds and tastes of foreign places without having to leave the country.

So, that's why WDW is worth it to my family even if we could use that Disney vacation fund to go to Europe for two weeks instead of 6 days at WDW.

 

[bubbles1812]

The thing people seem to forget when they talk about how "you could get a vacation in Europe for what you spend at Disney" is that some people don't want to go to Europe, even if it's less expensive.

Some people don't want to go to Disney at all or don't want to go every year even though the could afford it and heck, even if it were less expensive than a trip to Europe. I don't think anyone was indicating they had forgotten that some people don't want to go to Europe though that makes me sad they don't...even with the "hassles" of traveling to a foreign country...I don't think I've ever met a person who said it wasn't worth it. But everyone has a difference sense of worth and what is worthy of spending money on. I find it's worth my money to go to Disney only every few years or so but not every year. Personally, I think there is more out there, so so much more out there than just Disney even though I love it and it's one of my fav places to vacation. But I know others don't feel that way. Different strokes for different folks...

 

[HenryMystic]

Disney World isn't necessarily "hassle free" anymore.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Some people don't want to go to Disney at all or don't want to go every year even though the could afford it and heck, even if it were less expensive than a trip to Europe. I don't think anyone was indicating they had forgotten that some people don't want to go to Europe though that makes me sad they don't...even with the "hassles" of traveling to a foreign country...I don't think I've ever met a person who said it wasn't worth it. But everyone has a difference sense of worth and what is worthy of spending money on. I find it's worth my money to go to Disney only every few years or so but not every year. Personally, I think there is more out there, so so much more out there than just Disney even though I love it and it's one of my fav places to vacation. But I know others don't feel that way. Different strokes for different folks...

Bubbles --

I did the world traveling thing. I took my kids to Europe, to Australia, to Asia, and we went to Mexico and Canada too. I'm inching closer 60 every day and I just don't want to deal with going through customs again and I just don't want to worry about being in charge of making sure everyone I am with is safe in a foreign country. I did it all those times and I am done, hon.

So WDW is my annual vacation treat and I love it. Every time we go, I have a different experience. It never gets old for me. When my niece and nephew are in high school I think I will take them to Europe for a trip like I took my kids. I will be the good auntie who shows them all the cultural sites. I have five or six years before they are old enough for me to do this. I want them to have that nice memory and the chance to see in person things they learn about in school.

For now though, they can look forward to me taking them to WDW for a week every year. It's also a gift I give my sister because she can then have a week's vacation without the kids at home and she can do as she pleases. She's a single mom and I try to help her out as best I can.

I think I have about 10 more winters or less in me before I move to Florida. I want to live near WDW, and buy on Disney property in Celebration if we can swing that. When I live down there in the future, I think I'll want to vacation elsewhere so I bet my husband and I will become cruise people in our retirement. That is a few years away. But I see it on the horizon.

I'm just in a very WDW phase of my life right now. For a while I thought my son would become an Imagineer and I think all the trips to Disney did get him interested in architecture, though he does not work for Disney. I think all the trips down to Orlando got my daughter interested in acting. That's not her day job, but she does community theater and performs and turned out well. Every year we have a new picture of all of us at MK in front of the castle. I like seeing them all in my album and on my walls. I live in Ohio, my son is in Chicago, and my daughter is in NYC. I fly them down to Orlando for the trip each year and some years it is the only guaranteed time I will see them both in person at the same time.

So WDW is my annual tradition and it will be for as long as I can afford it. I work very hard to afford it and sacrifice other things in life to maintain my Disney vacation fund. I bet I am not the only super fan who does it.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Disney World isn't necessarily "hassle free" anymore.

Compared to traveling abroad, dealing with customs, changing money into euros, translating foreign languages, and clashing with cultures...it's pretty hassle-free to me in terms of vacationing.