AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

[NoChesterHester]

I've quoted the segments of your post that I feel deserves mention.

I've tried to put my finger on the reasons why Avatar in AK makes me squirm and I feel your post really crystalized what I've been feeling for months.

Avatar is a great, stunning, visual movie. However, as a movie, it's missing key elements that make it fit in Disney properties. When we talk about immersive themes/movies, it's not just that the theming is rich, lush. That misses the mark. To be immersive it is absolutely *essential* that the story bring the viewer/reader into the world and make them part of it.

Think about what you said about Star Wars. How many children since 1977 until today have gone into their backyards with play lightsabers and imagined themselves as Jedi Knights. Literally billions of play hours by children all over the world have been invested in fighting a Sith alongside Luke Skywalker or Han Solo. The fact of the matter is that they've imagined themselves *IN* the world they were watching in the movie. The mentally transported themselves, as they are, into these movies. There are other movie franchises that accomplish this. My kids do this with the pirates movies. I've had to install a huge Calico Jack pirate flag on my backyard swing set, because it's really a pirate ship, it's not a swing set and it hasn't been for 2 years. Let's take Harry Potter. Every stick outside becomes a wand....and my kids fight Lord Voldermort alongside each other and alongside Harry Potter at least once a week.

Now, lets talk about Avatar. you said it yourself. "Unsophisticated Story." I'll take it one step further. It's not just unsophisticated. Its not imersive!! Now before people challenge that. Yes, it's richly themed, its very lush. But it does *NOT* drag the viewer into the movie. Think about it. Harsh conditions. You can't breathe there. Every animal is going to eat your eyeballs for jujubes. The Navi don't like humans, they don't look like humans...and it took half the movie for the main character to get close to the Navi.

That's not an environment or story line that draws children inward. It's not a story that draws fantasy-minded adults in. I loved avatar, but for every second I watched it, I was FIRMLY aware that I was sitting in my living room, watching Dances with Wolves in outer space. My children don't want to fight alongside Jake Sully. They don't want to mate with a Navi. They don't want to breathe that air. It's not immersive. It doesn't pull the viewer in.

I seriously doubt that people have a problem with Avatar because it won't allow our pet projects to be developed. That's silly. If Avatar were truly a great idea, we'd all embrace it. The reason we're not is because there's this intangible that makes the Avatar project *very* un-disney. For me, the above description is what I don't like about it. Perhaps its the same for others. But the fact of the matter is most people are not comfortable with this idea because it makes our Disney Parks less Disney.

Given the likely cost of this expansion, I'm still scratching my head why they couldn't attract George Lucas instead. An entire theme park could have been developed around the Star Wars mythology...and this entire theme park could have easily been a very deadly blow to the huge momentum Universal has created for itself with WWOHP. It still boggles the mind.

Excellent post.

I agree with a lot stated here, but because you are logical and don't hate Avatar because it killed Mysterious Island doesn't mean it isn't true. The logic here is pretty shallow. The passion is high.

Lucas would listen... and has listened... it all comes down to money. I also think Disney is being short sighted in they believe Star Wars has reached its peak and is on its way down. If they released another movie tomorrow there would be nutjobs camping out for a month to be first in line.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You're missing the point in order to drive home something that isn't valid. The story is important in such that it is a conduit for the things that we identify with. Those things are characters, ideals, crusades, etc. It's *these* things that make a child want to fight Darth Vader on his bed. It's *these* things that make a child grab a twig, point it at the boy next door and go "expelliarmus!!" and its *these* things that will make a themed area based on a franchise a success or not.

You can argue the point that story doesn't matter....and assuming you stop at story and connect none of the characterization, ideas or crusades, you'd be right...and you can cite dinoland and Splash Mountain til the cows come home.

But we're not talking about discrete ideas for a land that can have zero connection to anything outside of the land, are we? We're talking about a franchise with an already established characterization....an already established set of ideas....an already established crusade/purpose and an already established mythology. Those things are rather cast in stone. You can't can't change them significantly. If you do, you'd better not call it 'Avatarland' or whatever WDW/TDO decides to call it.

Find me a single kid in his backyard trying to jump out of his tree to capture that dragon thing? You're not going to....that's the big problem here. I hate to bring in merchandising here, because it'll be misinterpreted. But go take a look at how many Avatar toys there were in the stores during the movie's height of popularity. Not many. Contrast that with the amount of Star Wars toys. The amount of Harry Potter toys. The amount of Toy Story toys...I can go on. The point is, that Avatar doesn't have that connection to people. People aren't immersed into the story line. They aren't immersed into the characters. They aren't immersed into the mythology.

Story line is definitely not that important when creating a theme park attraction. But the characterization, emotions and mythology that the story line allows the viewer to identify with is EVERYTHING.

No where am I arguing that Avatar is a better choice that Harry Potter or Star Wars. I think a Star Wars themed land is such a slam dunk idea it's really puzzling why it hasn't happened.

But back to Avatar, you're right in that there was no attachment to the characters or the story, but I would argue that in the case of this land the flaura and fauna are the things that resulted in that attachment. Right now it's an awful franchise for merchandise, but it's entirely conceivable that it could evolve in the second and third movies or based on the collaborative efforts of Imagineering/Cameron. We don't know the merchandise options other than what is currently available and that isn't much.

My interest in Avatar is that land that's created - believe me, I'll be right there with the naysayers if the most impressive thing in the land as a Sam Worthington animatronic.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record but I'm more interested in seeing the environments of a place like Pandora than I am getting invested in the story. You're right - I have no attachment to the story or characters, but the environment looks damn cool and that's what I want to visit. The same can be said about Tron - the environment looks cool but I didn't have much of an attachment to the characters or the story.

The reality is, so much of what will happen with World of Avatar is unknown. We can only speculate. We are basing this off our knowledge of the only movie and our existing theme park knowledge. I'm chosing to look at this as a potential positive because I think the movie lends itself to a theme park environment. However, I also don't have the slightest idea of what can be done for attraction concepts and that's largely where this land is going to be deemed a success or a failure. The theming could be amazing but if it doesn't have a significant attraction draw it won't really matter.

 

[xdan0920]

Having said all that, I don't know what that first choice would be for an additional land in the Animal Kingdom. It very well could be Avatar, I don't know yet. The way I look at it is Disney is likely adding a land based off of a new set of mythical creatures and this land doesn't behave the same way the lands of Earth behave. If something like that was part of the public pitch for Avatarland and the movie didn't exist we would all be incredible excited.





That's just silly.

About these two things.


1. This land is based off of the Movie. The movie is the entire reason this land exists. There is no getting around that. AvatarLand will forever be associated with Avatar the film. I agree with the sentiment that without the movie, we would be excited about the possibilities. Unfortunately the movie exists, and it is the reason Disney is even tied up in this endeavor. This is an outside "franchise" that Disney has bought the rights too. I mean, look at Star Tours, it features Luke, Darth, Han, ect....and it follows the overarching story of the movies. Why will Avatar be different? Granted we don't know for sure, but odds are we will be dealing with Jake? Mean army guy, and Sigourny Weaver. And what if the 2nd movie is a critical disaster with a less successful BO. Then the third continues the downward trend. Now what is WDW stuck with?

2. Why is it silly? Vacant land costs nothing. This is going to used up 5 years worth of WDW development. Who knows what other projects Avatar will wind up forcing to the back burner or the scrap heap? Not worth it. IMO.

 

[BigDeal]

I suppose you guys don't know about the 2 other new Avatar movies that are in production???

Yep, Uncle Jimbo is producing two at once, to be released a year or so apart from each other... The movie franchise will be very relavant when the Avatar section finally opens up. Since Jim's team is working with the Imagineers, I'm sure they tie in new stuff you'll see in the two new movies.

OMG! Think of the MONEY! The franchise royalties! The merchandising! The rides! The people dying to get in there!

There's going to be one rich little mouse in the house....

 

[xdan0920]

Jesus, this has gotten so friggin petty. Really.

How so?

 

[PirateFrank]

let me also add, having said everything I've said. I am looking forward to seeing what WDI comes up with for this land...

irrespective of my issues surrounding the characterization and mythology regarding an avatar fit in Disney....I do understand the huge potential for a very visually stunning environment, provided it's done right.

I 100% agree with RedSox1, if that the best WDI comes up with is a Sam Worthington animatronic, I'm going to be very, very disappointed.

 

[AvengersWDW]

How so?

Because you are making outrageous are childish claims..but you are a doom and gloomer. The only positive i could give your claims is that you have not mentioned Pokemon.

This is why more people need the "wait and see" approach...the world would not suck as much if more people had patience and did not cry about something they do not know how it will turn out

 

[PirateFrank]

I suppose you guys don't know about the 2 other new Avatar movies that are in production???

who cares?

The fact that we're 2-3 years removed from the first one and this thread is SO intensely packed with naysayers or people going "I just don't get it"....speaks volumes about the lack of staying power of Avatar.

So we sink half a billion into some Avatar land timed right with the release of the third movie. By the time they slap a strobe light on the Pandoran Dragon, all three movies will be dated and out of public interest.

 

[alissafalco]

who cares?

The fact that we're 2-3 years removed from the first one and this thread is SO intensely packed with naysayers or people going "I just don't get it"....speaks volumes about the lack of staying power of Avatar.

So we sink half a billion into some Avatar land timed right with the release of the third movie. By the time they slap a strobe light on the Pandoran Dragon, all three movies will be dated and out of public interest.

yep I agree 100%!!!

 

[ctxak98]

Am I the only one that thinks this fits pretty perfect in this park? To me this is a mythical world and has some awesome visuals and creatures that could be really cool for disney. I mean come on....what other movie like this could go in animal kingdom that can compete with something that universal has. NOTHING owned by disney in my opinion will be able to create a huge impact on WWOHP. I think this will be a good fit and we need to have more faith in them....ALSO since disney own marvel and there is an avenger movie coming out....they should start working on actually incorporating some of those characters to there rides

 

[GLaDOS]

I mean come on....what other movie like this could go in animal kingdom that can compete with something that universal has. NOTHING owned by disney in my opinion will be able to create a huge impact on WWOHP.

Star Wars can compete in DHS, a park that also desperately needs to be upgraded.

Avatar can't compete with Harry Potter's drawing power.

ALSO since disney own marvel and there is an avenger movie coming out....they should start working on actually incorporating some of those characters to there rides

They can't. Universal has the rights in Florida.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Star Wars can compete in DHS, a park that also desperately needs to be upgraded.

Avatar can't compete with Harry Potter's drawing power.



They can't. Universal has the rights in Florida.

What would you have them do at DHS? If you say gut Backlot Tour i am all on board

 

[RSoxNo1]

What would you have them do at DHS? If you say gut Backlot Tour i am all on board

A mini Lucas Land can be made with a theme redesign between Indiana Jones and Star Tours. A while ago someone suggested a forest theme to tie Star Wars and Indiana Jones. Re-theming Backlot Express into Mos Eisley Cantina and replacing American Idol/Sounds Dangerous with an additional Star Wars attraction would be a major step in the right direction.

 

[AvengersWDW]

A mini Lucas Land can be made with a theme redesign between Indiana Jones and Star Tours. A while ago someone suggested a forest theme to tie Star Wars and Indiana Jones. Re-theming Backlot Express into Mos Eisley Cantina and replacing American Idol/Sounds Dangerous with an additional Star Wars attraction would be a major step in the right direction.

I am down for anything being done at DHS that does not touch RnRC, TOT or TSM....i like your idea

 

[grunter]

Maybe if John carter does well at he box office hey will scrap avatar land for JC?

If there was even a slight chance to substitute John Carter's Mars for Avatarland, I would be out buying tickets hand over fist to make it happen.

Sadly, I think we're stuck with a 3D Ferngully movie "environment" and some fiber optic "theming."

It'll be "revolutionary" and "amazing." :hurl:

 

[xdan0920]

Because you are making outrageous are childish claims..but you are a doom and gloomer. The only positive i could give your claims is that you have not mentioned Pokemon.

This is why more people need the "wait and see" approach...the world would not suck as much if more people had patience and did not cry about something they do not know how it will turn out

I did not ask you. But since you insist on becoming involved, what outrageous claims have I made?

 

[disney fan 13]

At this point I am in a '' wait and see'' state, I dislike the movie but I have some faith that there will be a innovative ride and not a omnimover or a soarin type ride...

 

[ShookieJones]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or suggested in this thread....but is there a planned ground breaking on Pandora \ Avatarland etc.?
Is there a chance (fingers crossed) that the Disney brass would get smart, rethink this whole thing and pull the plug..?

I'm not an Avatar movie hater..but the idea of land or area based on this 'not yet a franchise' is absolutely ridiculous.

Especially when WDW already is working with an amazing franchise that has staying power - Star Wars. Why not hammer out whatever deal needs to get done with George Lucas and do a huge expansion in DHS? :shrug:

 

[invader]

Especially when WDW already is working with an amazing franchise that has staying power - Star Wars. Why not hammer out whatever deal needs to get done with George Lucas and do a huge expansion in DHS? :shrug:

Because then they might have to build / offer a quality product that Lucas has pushed for in years past...

I'm not going to lie, Avatarland excites me I just wish we had some plans. What scares me is they'll water it down instead of what it should be.

 

[Prototype82]

I think I'm the only person not dying to have a Star Wars world. As much as I love the franchise...