AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

[Bairstow]

I don't think the arms bases themselves would necessarily be moving at high speed. This sort of thing hasn't even been demonstrated with non-inverted Kuka tracks yet.

Again, I think there's plenty of knowledge in the industry about how to engineer overhead arm tracks that can support massive stresses. Other than getting regulatory certification, I don't think adding riders into the equation presents any specialized concerns or challenges that automotive or aircraft manufacture does not.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I would guess that a Kuka arm on an inverted track would require supports extending to the left and ride of the track. This could potentially be very limiting.

 

[Bairstow]

I would guess that a Kuka arm on an inverted track would require supports extending to the left and ride of the track. This could potentially be very limiting.

That makes me wonder; with a robocoaster like Potter, surely there are ride elements and animatronics that pass within the arms' field of motion. Is proper programming the only thing keeping the arm from bashing riders into them?

 

[Scuttle]

I would guess that a Kuka arm on an inverted track would require supports extending to the left and ride of the track. This could potentially be very limiting.

It could, but it also has amazing potential! I hope this is exactly what WDI and JC have in mind. This would absolutely blow people away. See if they make an innovative attraction like this it won't matter if Avatar doesn't sell merchandise or if it's storyline is bad. It simply won't matter and guests will come to visit AK to visit this new groundbreaking attraction. I sure hope this is the same way WDI and JC are thinking and given JC's track record I wouldn't be surprised if we see something absolutely groundbreaking.

 

[Lee]

That makes me wonder; with a robocoaster like Potter, surely there are ride elements and animatronics that pass within the arms' field of motion. Is proper programming the only thing keeping the arm from bashing riders into them?

Pretty much...

 

[Bairstow]

Pretty much...

Cripes.

Makes me wonder what kind of fail-safes there are to keep collisions from happening. Independent ride-control and ride-monitoring systems with automatic shutdown protocols? Infrared/laser intrusion beams tied to a vehicle "killswitch"?

Considering how close to the decor these things sometimes get, it must have taken a lot of convincing to prove to the State of Florida that the computer is smart enough to thread these needles.

 

[Disaddict]

Yea. if you've ever seen the things in person (especially the Potter ones) they're massive. There's no way that thing is going on an inverted coaster track.

EPCOT's Sum of All Fears has one don't they? Granted, not on a track but at least those that have not been to Universal will know what you mean by the size. Putting this on a coaster track would be tricky.

 

[NoChesterHester]

I remember someone posting a patent some time back about a spinning attraction on independent arms. Could be utilized for one of the lower tier attractions in Pandora.

 

[nytimez]

If you wanted an inversion, why would the track itself have to leave the ground? Couldn't a KUKA arm accomplish it with a 360-degree motion at the "elbow" or "wrist" of the arm without having to take the base off a ground-based track?

 

[Bairstow]

The point of inverting the Kuka arms isn't to enable rider inversions, but to give a better ride experience simulating flight. Because of the arm design, a ground-tracked Kuka vehicle will constantly expose the arm itself to the riders' line of sight. Potter gets around this by mostly having the riders always travel to their left, rather than forward, and uses movie screens when forward motion must be simulated. Having the arm come down from a suspended track (like Peter Pan) lets the riders look down on show scenes as they move over them, and gets around the necessity of having to rely on movie screens to move the passengers "forward".

 

[GLaDOS]

Having the arm come down from a suspended track (like Peter Pan) lets the riders look down on show scenes as they move over them, and gets around the necessity of having to rely on movie screens to move the passengers "forward".

But it also opens up the possibility of having the vehicle in front of your's arm in plain view the entire time.

 

[Bairstow]

But it also opens up the possibility of having the vehicle in front of your's arm in plain view the entire time.

That's true of any forward-moving Omnimover, like Dinosaur, Pirates of the Caribbean, or Test Track. They would have to design around this with walls, spacing, and darkness, like they always do.

 

[Scuttle]

The point of inverting the Kuka arms isn't to enable rider inversions, but to give a better ride experience simulating flight. Because of the arm design, a ground-tracked Kuka vehicle will constantly expose the arm itself to the riders' line of sight. Potter gets around this by mostly having the riders always travel to their left, rather than forward, and uses movie screens when forward motion must be simulated. Having the arm come down from a suspended track (like Peter Pan) lets the riders look down on show scenes as they move over them, and gets around the necessity of having to rely on movie screens to move the passengers "forward".

Exactly. When I think about FJ I can't help but think how much better it could be. Now don't get me wrong I think it's the best attraction in the World right now, but think about what they will be able to do with KUKA arms in 10 years or 5 for Avatarland. An inverted KUKA arm system would be so much more realistic. Like Bairstow said it would give a completely different feel actually giving you forward motion instead of sideways motion.

 

[GLaDOS]

Exactly. When I think about FJ I can't help but think how much better it could be. Now don't get me wrong I think it's the best attraction in the World right now, but think about what they will be able to do with KUKA arms in 10 years or 5 for Avatarland. An inverted KUKA arm system would be so much more realistic. Like Bairstow said it would give a completely different feel actually giving you forward motion instead of sideways motion.

Forbidden Journey can go forwards...I don't get why you think it can't.

It just doesn't to hide the arm in front of you from view. There's no other reason for the sideways movements. And as i said before, you'd have the same problem with an inverted arm.

 

[StitchLightyear]

The idea sounds cool, but I don't think it'll work out. It worked with George Lucas but maybe not for James Cameron.

 

[jt04]

The idea sounds cool, but I don't think it'll work out. It worked with George Lucas but maybe not for James Cameron.

James Cameron rarely produces failures. At this moment I can't think of any. His one theme park contribution (that I know of) is still very effective and well done.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

James Cameron rarely produces failures. At this moment I can't think of any. His one theme park contribution (that I know of) is still very effective and well done.

Cameron I think is one of those people with an instinctive, perfect feeling for what people like. He understands what works and what doesn't. He can place himself in the mind of the audience and understand how they pereive the show.

This is something Disney is always in need of. Walt himself was a master at it, Eisner the studio boss too. And people like Frank Wells.

Interestingly, Joe Rohde has not mastered this art at all. Should be fun!

 

[jt04]

Cameron I think is one of those people with an instinctive, perfect feeling for what people like. He understands what works and what doesn't. He can place himself in the mind of the audience and understand how they pereive the show.

This is something Disney is always in need of. Walt himself was a master at it, Eisner the studio boss too. And people like Frank Wells.

Interestingly, Joe Rohde has not mastered this art at all. Should be fun!

It really does boil down to empathy in many cases. Not saying Joe or anyone else lacks it. But there is no doubt Cameron understands the audience.

Spielberg has it too as does Lucas. Spielberg even admitted he wanted a break from making films with mass appeal as he wanted to make films that were more personally important to him. I think he seeks to return to films with more popular appeal now.

I think Lucas and Cameron can be mentioned in the same sentence with Walt Disney with complete credibility. They have really maintained and built on the standards Walt set.

 

[whylightbulb]

The point of inverting the Kuka arms isn't to enable rider inversions, but to give a better ride experience simulating flight. Because of the arm design, a ground-tracked Kuka vehicle will constantly expose the arm itself to the riders' line of sight. Potter gets around this by mostly having the riders always travel to their left, rather than forward, and uses movie screens when forward motion must be simulated. Having the arm come down from a suspended track (like Peter Pan) lets the riders look down on show scenes as they move over them, and gets around the necessity of having to rely on movie screens to move the passengers "forward".

This is a very cogent and accurate explanation of the thinking behind the FJ design strategy. I argued for the use of both forward and side motion during the design phase and obviously lost the battle but there are ways around the RV POV problem you are referring to.

For example I pitched the idea of a realistic takeoff from load that would simulate soaring out of a window and flying forward into the moonlit sky. This would be accomplished by starting with the same kind of take off we have now except we would pass the first window as the RV rotates toward the second completely open window and our side motion changes to forward motion. The RV is still at about 5 feet before the arm accelerates upwards to full height, the wind machine is going at full force, the drop sets begin to drop and the particulate simulating clouds (also used to hide the RV in front during the "lift off") is on full blast and the music crescendos. Effects lighting adds the final touch to what would have been one of the most exhilerating and realistic experiences in any ride to date. This would have been a great example of using the technology to benefit the show and would have offered a complete visceral and thematic sequence.

Of course it is usually budget, ego or safety that prohibits things like this from becoming reality. In this case unfortunately it was a little ego and mostly budget. LN2 or CO2 is extremely expensive and the consumables budget was already pretty high. I think this would have been a better use of it but I did not have the final word. Also adding the drop sets in one more show action effect adds cost. Oh well...on to fight more battles.

 

[ChrisFL]

Exactly. When I think about FJ I can't help but think how much better it could be. Now don't get me wrong I think it's the best attraction in the World right now, but think about what they will be able to do with KUKA arms in 10 years or 5 for Avatarland. An inverted KUKA arm system would be so much more realistic. Like Bairstow said it would give a completely different feel actually giving you forward motion instead of sideways motion.

what do you mean forward motion instead of sideways? it has full 360 degree turn capability, so the idea of "forward" motion is a moot point.