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doctornick

Well-Known Member
Tom said:
Unless they've changed the plans (which would have required a drastic re-design from the nearly-complete plans that were leaked in 10/2012), the ride system mostly likely to be used would be Vekoma's Panoramic Flight Simulator:
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I have no idea what the plans actually are, but I'll point out that the leaked blueprints were from a period before the plans were finalized. In fact, there was a period of tense time when it seemed the project was going to be cancelled due to a lack of agreement between Cameron and Disney.

Now, I'm not saying that it means that the plans definitely changed, but I don't think we can say that the Fall 2012 leaked blueprints are definitely the active plans either.
 
Tom

Tom

Beta Return
doctornick said:
I have no idea what the plans actually are, but I'll point out that the leaked blueprints were from a period before the plans were finalized. In fact, there was a period of tense time when it seemed the project was going to be cancelled due to a lack of agreement between Cameron and Disney.

Now, I'm not saying that it means that the plans definitely changed, but I don't think we can say that the Fall 2012 leaked blueprints are definitely the active plans either.
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You're absolutely right. Nobody in the fan community has seen any actual plans since October 2012...and I say that because there hasn't been one single leak since then, and that could only happen if fans didn't have access to any. Some major holes were plugged after that major leak.

Those plans, however, were very detailed, and came with extensive narratives on the mechanical and electrical systems, as well as a complete foundation and structural steel design. They were also identified as "Budget Plans", which are used once you're ready to put dollar amounts to a project to see where you are. From there, you make minor adjustments to get it within budget.

But yes, they could have very easily thrown the entire set of plans away and started over. We'll know very soon, once we see some aerials of the foundations. If things start to look like these plans, the end result will be very similar to what was drawn 2 years ago.
 
D

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Tom said:
You're absolutely right. Nobody in the fan community has seen any actual plans since October 2012...and I say that because there hasn't been one single leak since then, and that could only happen if fans didn't have access to any. Some major holes were plugged after that major leak.

Those plans, however, were very detailed, and came with extensive narratives on the mechanical and electrical systems, as well as a complete foundation and structural steel design. They were also identified as "Budget Plans", which are used once you're ready to put dollar amounts to a project to see where you are. From there, you make minor adjustments to get it within budget.

But yes, they could have very easily thrown the entire set of plans away and started over. We'll know very soon, once we see some aerials of the foundations. If things start to look like these plans, the end result will be very similar to what was drawn 2 years ago.
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Sure. And my inclination is that those are indeed the current plans, or at least a substantive basis for them. My point is only that it is conceivable that the plans significantly changed from the time of the leak to 6-8 months later when there was actually some final agreement between Cameron and Disney -- that's enough time that some different plans could have been picked up and modified for the final product. If that happened, though, I don't think they "[threw] the entire set of plans away and started over" necessarily, but might have picked up a different option that had been developed and ran with that.

We'll find out eventually. But it is interesting that even the insiders on here and elsewhere have not offered much of any specific details of the planned rides. And there's been rumors that Cameron's group and WDI have set up some very secured space where the development has gone on, suggesting that it's at least possible they have come up with new fangled plans that very few people know about.
 
Atomicmickey

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
doctornick said:
Sure. And my inclination is that those are indeed the current plans, or at least a substantive basis for them. My point is only that it is conceivable that the plans significantly changed from the time of the leak to 6-8 months later when there was actually some final agreement between Cameron and Disney -- that's enough time that some different plans could have been picked up and modified for the final product. If that happened, though, I don't think they "[threw] the entire set of plans away and started over" necessarily, but might have picked up a different option that had been developed and ran with that.

We'll find out eventually. But it is interesting that even the insiders on here and elsewhere have not offered much of any specific details of the planned rides. And there's been rumors that Cameron's group and WDI have set up some very secured space where the development has gone on, suggesting that it's at least possible they have come up with new fangled plans that very few people know about.
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That said, the preview video showed development of a completely screen based attraction that would fit well with those leaked plans. It's not unreasonable to assume similar of not exact plans are being executed. The boat ride remains the big mystery here. Yes--security has been tight since then.
Hoping for more leaks on the boat ride!
 
S

Sassagoula-Rvr

Well-Known Member
I'm seriously pumped for this! The one Vekoma attraction looks amazing...but...I didn't think it looked like it had a ton of capacity...where the other Vekoma flight simulator looks like Soarin on steroids.

Just awesome, I can't wait. Especially with Cameron involved...something tells me that the "bean counters" won't be able to cut back on this one as easily...can't tick off the principal creator of it all.
 
dstrawn9889

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
Sassagoula-Rvr said:
I'm seriously pumped for this! The one Vekoma attraction looks amazing...but...I didn't think it looked like it had a ton of capacity...where the other Vekoma flight simulator looks like Soarin on steroids.

Just awesome, I can't wait. Especially with Cameron involved...something tells me that the "bean counters" won't be able to cut back on this one as easily...can't tick off the principal creator of it all.
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vekoma says ~900/hr depending on show length x 4 theatres = 3600/hr bldg capacity making it better than most omnimover-style rides :::

Disneyland's Haunted Mansion has 131 cars, with a guest capacity of 2,618
guests per hour, granting 2.25 guests per car, assuming no ride stops
(wheelchairs or slow guests). A typical hour at full capacity is
2000-2400.
 
D

doctornick

Well-Known Member
dstrawn9889 said:
vekoma says ~900/hr depending on show length x 4 theatres = 3600/hr bldg capacity making it better than most omnimover-style rides :::

Disneyland's Haunted Mansion has 131 cars, with a guest capacity of 2,618
guests per hour, granting 2.25 guests per car, assuming no ride stops
(wheelchairs or slow guests). A typical hour at full capacity is
2000-2400.
Click to expand...

One would hope that, with that kind of capacity, they will have variable scenes a la Star Tours 2. With a high capacity that would allow for guests to re-ride and have multiple experiences.
 
dstrawn9889

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
and that is for the small theatre version, (90 seats), and it also comes standard as a 160 seat theatre. 1600/hr x4 = 6400/hr if they built with that theatre instead.
 
dstrawn9889

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
that assumes a three minute show and ~3 minutes of cattle wrangling... ten shows an hour... think that maybe the attraction would last longer than 3 minutes. the said capacity would drop. (extrapolating the numbers here, vekoma claims an 900/hr cap per theatre, with 90 seats in the theatre, so 10 shows... 10 shows/60 mins = 6 mins/show start)
 
Tom

Tom

Beta Return
dstrawn9889 said:
and that is for the small theatre version, (90 seats), and it also comes standard as a 160 seat theatre. 1600/hr x4 = 6400/hr if they built with that theatre instead.
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The leaked plans showed three Ride Floors, each with two 8-seat gondolas. That's only 48 riders per cycle, per theater, or 192 riders total per show cycle. Assuming a 15 minute start-to-start cycle time, that's only 768 riders per hour - which is awful.

I hope they incorporate more seats in each theater, or else the capacity will be very underwhelming.
 
Tom

Tom

Beta Return
dstrawn9889 said:
that assumes a three minute show and ~3 minutes of cattle wrangling... ten shows an hour... think that maybe the attraction would last longer than 3 minutes. the said capacity would drop. (extrapolating the numbers here, vekoma claims an 900/hr cap per theatre, with 90 seats in the theatre, so 10 shows... 10 shows/60 mins = 6 mins/show start)
Click to expand...

So if we use the numbers I just posted, at 6 cycles per hour, per theater, that's an hourly capacity of 1152 for the entire building. Still not good.
 
dstrawn9889

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
Tom said:
The leaked plans showed three Ride Floors, each with two 8-seat gondolas. That's only 48 riders per cycle, per theater, or 192 riders total per show cycle. Assuming a 15 minute start-to-start cycle time, that's only 768 riders per hour - which is awful.

I hope they incorporate more seats in each theater, or else the capacity will be very underwhelming.
Click to expand...
vekoma websites say a ten seat car, and that they are in banks of three (at least that is what is shown in the pictures on the website--the arrangement not the capacity per car) perhaps the person drawing the plan did not know exactly the specs, so instead of just blocking out the plans in hash, they drew a 'likeness' to make it more easily identifiable space for the execs? the other thing is looking in the plans for a cut away elevation...
 
Tom

Tom

Beta Return
dstrawn9889 said:
vekoma websites say a ten seat car, and that they are in banks of three (at least that is what is shown in the pictures on the website--the arrangement not the capacity per car) perhaps the person drawing the plan did not know exactly the specs, so instead of just blocking out the plans in hash, they drew a 'likeness' to make it more easily identifiable space for the execs? the other thing is looking in the plans for a cut away elevation...
Click to expand...

Right, but it also says "...as well as custom designed to your specifications." And all of their photos show 5-seat gondolas. So, I assume they'll design and build whatever the end-user wants.

Granted, the only place the seating configuration shows up is on the color-mapped HVAC zoning plans. Each of the three ride levels has two gondolas shown in each theater, with 8 seats across. There is no evidence of the ride system on any of the architectural plans, elevations or sections.

It's certainly a possibility that they were drawn as a placeholder, especially since they don't show up on any other plan. Doesn't seem like very many seats.
 

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