AVATAR breaks ground

[marni1971]

I hope the "roll" continues. Is was born of survival. Nothing wrong with that though. Everyone wins when rampant capitalism reigns.

Still looking for the panic, jt. Can you point the direction? Thanks

 

[SirLink]

Still looking for the panic, jt. Can you point the direction? Thanks

Which way is the panic coming from though ... I got it its coming from the fanboi's.

No offense Martin

 

[Gabe1]

This permit would cover some work in that area:

521 W. Savannah Cir (Old FotLK) - Morpho - Area Development Early Package

Just not sure how far they can go without the SFWMD permit.

Thanks!

That permit seems broad enough for Disney to dump a load of dirt and stick a shovel in it.

Truth is if Uni had not committed to a build out the likely when have been bought out. They are doing what they had to do. And it is a good thing. Disney just sticks to their long range plan. See attendance numbers for proof.

And blog spin does not work on me. Quoting anonymous "cast members" is spin since all you would need is two to make such a claim.

~Pandora Bound~

Meh, I'm not impressed with the long range plan Disney has had for AK. The Discovery River Boats tanked so quickly they use the docks for seating areas, so much for long range plans. The worst of the worst being the carnival game area, the Wildlife train that is lack luster and didn't live up to its name in route to Rafiki's Watch. Disney's petting zoo is beyond underwhelming, more what you'd expect from a tiny zoo that $100 day theme park or for the hike it takes to reach the nothingness. The building isn't nearly as thoughtful as Innoventions at Epcot.

I can't say AK attendance records are anything to brag about and speak volumes to how underwhelming the park can be and it has so little it can't even stay open in the evening after 15+ years. I'm more impressed with Comcasts plans for Orlando than I am with Disney's for Animal Kingdom or for that matter, DHS or Future World. There isn't long range planning, it is flying by the seat of their pants these days.

 

[Atomicmickey]

I'm surprised that the majority of negative reactions to the new land are rooted in the choice of IP and not the rumored contents of the land itself. In theory, there is nothing wrong with building a land around Avatar. Whether you liked the film or not, there is a lot about the franchise that lends itself to a themed land. The visual potential alone is staggering. The real issue with this expansion, aside from the long delay between announcement and construction, is the lack of a truly groundbreaking attraction. I don't care how many bells and whistles WDI throws at the Soarin' ride tech, the fact remains that a big IMAX screen with moving seats is not going to cut it. I know Disney isn't really interested in creating groundbreaking (and potentially problematic) ride systems anymore but the fact that Cameron relented and signed off on the current plan is disappointing. I'm sure Pandora will be beautiful and bring Animal Kingdom closer to a full-day park experience but it isn't going to have the same impact Carsland had on DCA or the Sunset Blvd. expansion had on DHS. And the fact that Pandora will be opening a full 3 years after Universal's Diagon Alley certainly won't help expectations either. A whopping 7 years after the first phase of the Wizarding World opened and shocked the industry, Disney World finally responds with... a simulator and a boat ride.

OK, I'm going to go out on a conceptual limb, here. Everyone is wondering where the E ticket is. It remains to be seen about the Banshee ride--but I have a strong suspicion it will be an E. That's just me with mouse colored glasses, though.

But--swerve your thinking a bit. What if we started to think of THE AREA as an E Ticket? It looks like this place is going to be full of effects, possibly animatronics, the bioluminescence, and various 'experiences' have been promised throughout the land. The interactivity and responsiveness of Pandora lend themselves to this sort of thing. Let's put it this way--if, like CarsLand, you're moved by the variety of the environment and it's internal experiences to spend several hours enjoying the land---that's an E ticket equivalent. And you have not had to stand in line, not had to get a FastPass+. You've had hours of enjoyment with no lines, no waiting.

What's the difference between this land and, say 'Tomorrowland' as a concept? How can 'a land' be an E ticket? It has to do with technology and the experience. I think they're putting a ton of money into the land itself, and the responsiveness of the environment--the bioluminescence at night, and who knows what during the day, result in an "E ticket environment". No, you're not being hurtled upside down or anything, but the investment in the land itself is something to not be ignored in this unique case.

OK, I've sorta talked myself into it. I don't expect everyone to jump on that idea, and of course, it
all depends on the execution. I am making up a pile of things. But I can see it happening that way.

If I was in charge! But, of course . . not.

 

[wdisney9000]

Still looking for the panic, jt. Can you point the direction? Thanks

Only thing Uni has to panic over is hiring more staff as quickly as possible to cater to their constantly growing park and hotel attendance.

 

[Groxtak]

Yeah, Disney will need James Cameron on board.... Captain James Cameron. Why? Because that's all that's new attraction-wise (after 7DMT) coming in the foreseeable future to hinge onto... Captain Cameron - an experienced captain. No one is better qualified or experienced.... With sinking ships!

 

[jdmdisney99]

Still looking for the panic, jt. Can you point the direction? Thanks

I found it!

 

[tirian]

OK, I'm going to go out on a conceptual limb, here. Everyone is wondering where the E ticket is. It remains to be seen about the Banshee ride--but I have a strong suspicion it will be an E. That's just me with mouse colored glasses, though.

But--swerve your thinking a bit. What if we started to think of THE AREA as an E Ticket? It looks like this place is going to be full of effects, possibly animatronics, the bioluminescence, and various 'experiences' have been promised throughout the land. The interactivity and responsiveness of Pandora lend themselves to this sort of thing. Let's put it this way--if, like CarsLand, you're moved by the variety of the environment and it's internal experiences to spend several hours enjoying the land---that's an E ticket equivalent. And you have not had to stand in line, not had to get a FastPass+. You've had hours of enjoyment with no lines, no waiting.

What's the difference between this land and, say 'Tomorrowland' as a concept? How can 'a land' be an E ticket? It has to do with technology and the experience. I think they're putting a ton of money into the land itself, and the responsiveness of the environment--the bioluminescence at night, and who knows what during the day, result in an "E ticket environment". No, you're not being hurtled upside down or anything, but the investment in the land itself is something to not be ignored in this unique case.

OK, I've sorta talked myself into it. I don't expect everyone to jump on that idea, and of course, it
all depends on the execution. I am making up a pile of things. But I can see it happening that way.

If I was in charge! But, of course . . not.

That's how Universal approached both HP expansions. WWHP is just 1 amazing new ride—the entire land is an "E." It looks like Diagon Alley will be the same way.

I think a better question for all of us to ask is whether or not this is an IP people will care about. Unfortunately, no matter how many people enjoyed Avatar, it's not a strong IP. Kids don't go to sleep in blue cat pajamas. People don't host Avatar-themed parties. The public doesn't feel a deep connection to its mythology.

We fans keep saying we want Disney to create new experiences instead of relying on tried-and-true cartoon characters. But we want authentic Disney creations, not attractions based on movies that most people don't care about any more.

Then again, Avatar is a vanity project for Bob Iger, and this might turn out to be an incredible area. We'll see. IMO there's too much back-and-forth on this project to predict its success.

 

[Gabe1]

My DD, 22 is sitting next to me watching Avatar on her laptop for the very first time. She just blurted out who wrote this, me, Cameron. Does he do drugs? They are going to expand AK based on this movie? yep, Don't you think the Incredibles would have been more appropriate in a Disney Park, this is so Universal. lol.

Yep that is my Baby.

And just blurted out....they could have easily made this a two hour movie

 

[SirLink]

That's how Universal approached both HP expansions. WWHP is just 1 amazing new ride—the entire land is an "E." It looks like Diagon Alley will be the same way.

I think a better question for all of us to ask is whether or not this is an IP people will care about. Unfortunately, no matter how many people enjoyed Avatar, it's not a strong IP. Kids don't go to sleep in blue cat pajamas. People don't host Avatar-themed parties. The public doesn't feel a deep connection to its mythology.

We fans keep saying we want Disney to create new experiences instead of relying on tried-and-true cartoon characters. But we want authentic Disney creations, not attractions based on movies that most people don't care about any more.

Then again, Avatar is a vanity project for Bob Iger, and this might turn out to be an incredible area. We'll see. IMO there's too much back-and-forth on this project to predict its success.

That is why for Star Wars makes so much sense for Disney's alternative to Harry Potters Medieval Magic to be Star Wars' Space Magic. But hearing things from that you still need multiple rides and shows to tie it together to be entertaining. You can't just add a small area of of Shops, F&B, walkthrough exhibit and E-ticket and call it a day.

But if Iger wanted a true vanity project - why not try and turn Epcot into a "FUN-cational vaction" about science, technology and world culture. That would be one huge political win-win-win point.

 

[Figments Friend]

Someone may have already asked about this....but where is James Cameron in this shot..?
I would think he would have wanted to have been here for this.

Is he currently filming somewhere...thus his absence?

I am happy to see this project finally going forward.
This is going to be a amazing themed area....wait n' see, folks.

 

[englanddg]

Someone may have already asked about this....but where is James Cameron in this shot..?
I would think he would have wanted to have been here for this.

Is he currently filming somewhere...thus his absence?

I am happy to see this project finally going forward.
This is going to be a amazing themed area....wait n' see, folks.

I thought that was him right in the middle...

 

[Figments Friend]

I thought that was him right in the middle...

Ha...no...just his good friend Jake Sulley.
I am sure James had a valid reason for not being available.

 

[danlb_2000]

I thought that was him right in the middle...

No, that's Bruce Vaughn Chief Creative Executive of Imagineering.

 

[schuelma]

I'm surprised that the majority of negative reactions to the new land are rooted in the choice of IP and not the rumored contents of the land itself. In theory, there is nothing wrong with building a land around Avatar. Whether you liked the film or not, there is a lot about the franchise that lends itself to a themed land. The visual potential alone is staggering. The real issue with this expansion, aside from the long delay between announcement and construction, is the lack of a truly groundbreaking attraction. I don't care how many bells and whistles WDI throws at the Soarin' ride tech, the fact remains that a big IMAX screen with moving seats is not going to cut it. I know Disney isn't really interested in creating groundbreaking (and potentially problematic) ride systems anymore but the fact that Cameron relented and signed off on the current plan is disappointing. I'm sure Pandora will be beautiful and bring Animal Kingdom closer to a full-day park experience but it isn't going to have the same impact Carsland had on DCA or the Sunset Blvd. expansion had on DHS. And the fact that Pandora will be opening a full 3 years after Universal's Diagon Alley certainly won't help expectations either. A whopping 7 years after the first phase of the Wizarding World opened and shocked the industry, Disney World finally responds with... a simulator and a boat ride.

Good post. As someone who has never seen Avatar, I'm excited about what WDI has shown off so far. That excitement obviously has nothing to do with the IP- rather with the environmental renders I've seen. I would never go so far as to say I will go to WDW just for Avatar, but I would say I will probably plan a trip to hopefully coincide with its opening. Most of my favorite rides and areas in WDW have little to nothing to do with well known Disney properties- I think its possible to get "Disney magic", whatever you want to call it, from a truly immersive area, whether it is tied to a film franchise or not.

The issue, which you and others have touched on, is that without a truly stellar attraction I believe the novelty will wear off and the land will be underwhelming for guests after they get over the initial theming.

I think a realistic goal for Disney is that Avatar and the other nighttime enhancements make AK a true full day park. But if you do not build at least one really compelling attraction, that goal gets a lot iffier and you could end up with a very pretty and relatively empty swath of walking paths.

I'm hoping for the best. Shrug.

 

[englanddg]

No, that's Bruce Vaughn Chief Creative Executive of Imagineering.

Hrm. I thought Bruce was right next to Joe...

Well, the one thing I learned from Avatar is what happened to Violet from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory after she was rolled off to the squeezing room.

 

[ford91exploder]

I'm surprised that the majority of negative reactions to the new land are rooted in the choice of IP and not the rumored contents of the land itself. In theory, there is nothing wrong with building a land around Avatar. Whether you liked the film or not, there is a lot about the franchise that lends itself to a themed land. The visual potential alone is staggering. The real issue with this expansion, aside from the long delay between announcement and construction, is the lack of a truly groundbreaking attraction. I don't care how many bells and whistles WDI throws at the Soarin' ride tech, the fact remains that a big IMAX screen with moving seats is not going to cut it. I know Disney isn't really interested in creating groundbreaking (and potentially problematic) ride systems anymore but the fact that Cameron relented and signed off on the current plan is disappointing. I'm sure Pandora will be beautiful and bring Animal Kingdom closer to a full-day park experience but it isn't going to have the same impact Carsland had on DCA or the Sunset Blvd. expansion had on DHS. And the fact that Pandora will be opening a full 3 years after Universal's Diagon Alley certainly won't help expectations either. A whopping 7 years after the first phase of the Wizarding World opened and shocked the industry, Disney World finally responds with... a simulator and a boat ride.

You have got to be kidding this is the ultimate TDO style cheap out. I was expecting a star tours type quad copter sim with one of the new 3D projection systems


But a rehashed Soarin system and a boat ride that's even worse than the IP the land is based on and it's gonna take 3 years to build that steaming pile of c---

From descriptions the Train to. Diagon alley will be more immersive than this c--- and it only took a year to build

 

[Zweiland]

You have got to be kidding this is the ultimate TDO style cheap out. I was expecting a star tours type quad copter sim with one of the new 3D projection systems


But a rehashed Soarin system and a boat ride that's even worse than the IP the land is based on and it's gonna take 3 years to build that steaming pile of c---

From descriptions the Train to. Diagon alley will be more immersive than this c--- and it only took a year to build

Why the "you have got to be kidding"? It seems to me like you mainly agree with the post you quoted.

 

[englanddg]

Interesting article.

Disney hopes big Animal Kingdom expansion keeps visitors in park longer
Jason Garcia, Orlando Sentinel

2:46 pm, January 11, 2014
On New Year's Eve, one of the busiest days of the year at Walt Disney World, three of the giant resort's four theme parks stayed open until 1 a.m. or later.

The fourth — Disney's Animal Kingdom — shut down at 8 p.m.

The contrasting holiday schedules underscore what has become a persistent problem for Animal Kingdom, the 15-year-old park that combines a handful of marquee rides and shows with a collection of more than 1,700 animals. Although the park draws plenty of people through its gates each morning — nearly 27,400 a day, on average — it doesn't keep them very long. Some fans dismiss it as a "half-day" park.

To fix that problem — and to better compete with Comcast Corp.'s rapidly growing Universal Orlando — Walt Disney Co. last week broke ground on an estimated $800 million renovation and expansion of Animal Kingdom. The goal of the multiyear project, whose centerpiece will be a lavishly themed new land based on the "Avatar" film franchise, is to transform Animal Kingdom into a full-day destination that can command crowds' attention well into the evening.

Senior Disney executives are enthusiastically talking up the project, likening it to their $1.1 billion, five-year rebuilding of Disney California Adventure in Anaheim, Calif., which has propelled the entire Disneyland Resort to record attendance and profit. The Animal Kingdom work is a personal priority of Tom Staggs, chairman of Disney's global theme-park division, who helped negotiate Disney's "Avatar" licensing deal with filmmaker James Cameron and 20th Century Fox.

Disney would not make any executives available to discuss the project, which was first announced in 2011 and won't be complete until 2017. But in a prepared statement, Staggs called it an "opportunity to take a park that already is home to some of our guests' favorite attractions and make it even better.

"The expansion enables us to bring the popular stories of 'Avatar' to life and introduce evening entertainment that will make the park a true full-day, must-see experience that further rounds out our overall Walt Disney World experience," Staggs added.

Disney says the parallels with California Adventure aren't perfect. Although company leaders publicly acknowledged that the original California Adventure fell far short of projections, they say they have been pleased with Animal Kingdom's performance.

Disney says Animal Kingdom is home to three of Disney World's 10 highest-rated attractions: Expedition Everest, Kilimanjaro Safaris and Festival of the Lion King. According to the Themed Entertainment Association, Animal Kingdom drew 10 million visitors in 2012. That was about 90,000 more than Disney's Hollywood Studios and 2 million more than Universal's Harry Potter-powered Islands of Adventure.

Still, the park's struggle to keep guests for a full day has become a hard-to-ignore flaw because it has exacerbated overcrowding problems elsewhere at Disney World. Many of the visitors checking out of Animal Kingdom in midafternoon head for the Magic Kingdom, which is bursting with more than 17 million annual visitors, or the Downtown Disney retail area, which struggles with parking shortages in the evenings.

"What's ultimately driving this is that they're trying to increase the capacity of Walt Disney World," said Robert Niles, publisher of ThemeParkInsider.com. "With Animal Kingdom, they've had this huge, expensive asset sitting there that they aren't utilizing to the same extent as the other parks."

Crowding and long lines are one of the most commonly cited deterrents for travelers thinking about Disney World vacations. Many of Disney's most recent Orlando expansions have been aimed at creating more breathing room and better spreading people across its property.

For example, the not-yet-completed $425 million Fantasyland expansion was designed to relieve pressure in the Magic Kingdom, which was already the busiest park in the world.

And one goal of the $1 billion MyMagic+ technology project, which remains in testing, is to get as many as 90 percent of Disney World visitors reserving some of their rides in advance. Only a bit more than 50 percent of the resort's visitors use Disney World's current Fastpass system, and those that do typically obtain Fastpasses for only two rides per day.

Disney has so far disclosed only a few details about its Animal Kingdom work. Additions will include an evening show combining live music, floating lanterns, water screens and swirling animal imagery, along with a revamped, nighttime version of its Kilimanjaro Safaris ride. The "Avatar" land, which will be the final phase and will open sometime in 2017, will feature floating mountains, lush jungle scenery and a ride meant to evoke riding a "banshee," a birdlike predator featured in the film.

Disney would not say how much it will spend on the work. Analysts at the investment-research firm MoffettNathanson, however, estimate the budget is about $800 million — about three-quarters of the amount Disney spent on its California Adventure overhaul.

Getting visitors to spend more time inside the Animal Kingdom is only part of the calculus. Disney also expects the project to drive higher overall attendance and to spur more in-park spending on food and souvenirs.

One reason Disney liked "Avatar" for Animal Kingdom is that the luminescent environment depicted in the film could look especially striking after dark in a theme park. But some industry watchers say they are skeptical that a land based on the science-fiction film will mesh with the wildlife-themed park.

That's more than a cosmetic concern, said Duncan Dickson, a professor at the University of Central Florida's Rosen College of Hospitality Management. If Avatar and Animal Kingdom ultimately appeal to different audiences, many fans might opt to do just the new land and skip the rest of the park — which would magnify the same length-of-stay problem Disney hopes to fix.

"I'm just not sure it fits Animal Kingdom. Are you going to Animal Kingdom to see everything or just to blow in to do 'Avatar' and then go someplace else?" Dickson said. "You really need to create reason for them to stay in the park as a whole."

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78858695/

 

[danlb_2000]

Hrm. I thought Bruce was right next to Joe...

Well, the one thing I learned from Avatar is what happened to Violet from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory after she was rolled off to the squeezing room.

From left to right George A. Kalogridis, president of Walt Disney World Resort; Meg Crofton, president of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts Operations, United States and France; Tom Staggs, chairman, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts; a Na’vi; Jon Landau, AVATAR producer; Bruce Vaughn, chief creative executive of Walt Disney Imagineering; and Joe Rohde, creative executive, Walt Disney Imagineering,