AVATAR breaks ground

[danlb_2000]

Look it's happening, and it'll be great. I'm fine with that. Yes the movie's plot was m'eh yet the visuals were outstanding. My biggest problem with the entire concept of devoting land, time and especially $$ to Avatar is that Avatar does not, nor never will have the "nostalgia" factor. A main factor people go to Disney for the magical nostalgic warm and fuzzies. Parents bring their kids there because their parents brought them there and so on and so on and so on. Every bit of the reasons why people go to Disney is to feel like a kid again.

Hopefully the land will be visually awe-inspiring and fun - but when you get down to it, not matter how well executed, it's going to miss that Disney nostalgic magic.

If the attractions are high quality they will have the same nostalgia factor for the next generation as any other attractions at Disney. I would bet the vast majority of kids (and lot of adults) that ride Splash Mountain today haven't ever seen Song of the South (or even know it exists) yet they still love the attraction and probably have nostalgic feelings for it. And here we are not even talking about a movie that has just lost popularity but one that Disney actively tries to deny the existence of.

 

[ford91exploder]

Yes, but unlike some people around here I am not going to judge the quality of an attraction before we even know anything about it. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see something concrete to judge.

Why should we give Disney the benefit of the doubt?, The Ariel Ride in NFL had the potential to be AMAZING and if the amount of thought that went into the queue had been extended to the ride itself it WOULD have been amazing. Ariel DESERVED a lot better ride than she got.

I'm judging Disney on current track record and it's not good

 

[marni1971]

Once again, if its good enough the IP doesn't matter.

And again, pretty surroundings but with lacklustre innards don't equal a wonderful development.

 

[ford91exploder]

On the flip side - when was the last time you saw "the twilight zone" anything in the stores? I know it's only one ride vs a land but I'm sure there were plenty of nay-sayers "you're making a thrill ride based of a 1950's black and white television show...ok there buddy!!"

If you recall when it was built there was a new 'Twilight Zone' series on and Rod Serling was having a upsurge in popularity.

 

[tirian]

No I just think people are being overly harsh towards something that isn't even fully built yet. Cant you people have faith in Disney? I guess not.

This will be my last reply because I feel like I'm wasting time—and I don't even completely disagree with you.

Fans have lost faith because of a decade of...
• maintenance cuts
• unfinished refurbs
• no new E-ticket in the MK for 22 years
• empty and half-empty pavilions throughout Epcot
• a giant, plastic hat that clashes with the only well-themed portion of the Studios
• nets around the Tree of Life
• generic merchandise
• cutbacks on entertainment, landscaping, and custodial
• cutbacks on holiday overlays and decorations
• cutbacks on hard-ticket fireworks shows and perks—yet higher prices
• simplified menus in full-service restaurants thanks to the DDP
• impossible-to-book, yet mediocre restaurants thanks to the DDP and mommy blog websites that have convinced tourists the Disney vacation isn't perfect without a meal at ----- (Chef Mickey's? Le Cellier?)
• broken AAs throughout existing attractions
• FP+ queues on people-eating attractions that don't need it (Captain EO? POTC? HM? SSE?)
• $600/night rooms on the monorail circuit. (Have you stayed there? I have. They're about the same as a Hilton.)
• Overpriced rooms everywhere else (almost $200/night for Pop around Christmas!)
• Artificially booked resorts (rooms are simply blocked off)
• Skyrocketing ticket prices
• Extremely high food prices
• High crowd levels without enough attractions to absorb everyone
• Inadequate transportation for those crowds, since many of them are staying off property


There have been a few good things, too...
• The FLE, which is only decent because of fan outcry—it was originally nothing but M&Gs and a C-ticket Mermaid ride
• A very good Splash Mt. refurb that happened after 2 years of neglect and bad Internet PR
• Quick-service food quality has risen in response to overbooked sit-down restaurants
• Merch prices leveled off because sales have plummeted

Yet the crowds do keep pouring in, because Disney has also managed four things well:
(1) Deep discounts for foreign Guests
(2) Decent discounts on American packages, plus Free Dining
(3) Clever advertising that's thick on nostalgia.
(4) DVC sales (although their fan base is starting to complain about staleness)

—All of which have made the Vacation Kingdom of the World a place that essentially functions on nostalgia, time shares, and discounts. It produces quick profits without investing in long-term growth.

You'll always have scary fanboys who live in their parent's basement and are never happy with anything, but most fan complaints are justified.

 

[ford91exploder]

Nav'i on a big blue ship? That maybe sinks?

If the attractions are high quality they will have the same nostalgia factor for the next generation as any other attractions at Disney. I would bet the vast majority of kids (and lot of adults) that ride Splash Mountain today haven't ever seen Song of the South (or even know it exists) yet they still love the attraction and probably have nostalgic feelings for it. And here we are not even talking about a movie that has just lost popularity but one that Disney actively tries to deny the existence of.

Very good point, The key of course is can TODAY's Disney still build attractions like the used to, The other shop down I-4 definitely can but can TDO resist the urge to cheap out on everything they touch.

 

[tirian]

I agree wholeheartedly with this - In my case my utter disgust with the Avatar story colors my viewpoint.

I also think that Disney will 'value engineer' Pandora so that all the beautiful visuals will be lost, Look at NFL concept art vs reality. I expect that Disney will do the same here

Biolumenscent plants would be amazing at night but the fiber optics to pull that off would be $10 bucks per leaf I just can't see TODAYS Disney doing that, 1990's Disney Absolutely would, What we will get is a tunnel with UV lights causing painted leaves to glow.

No, they're bio-engineered to glow. I've seen them.

 

[Atomicmickey]

This will be my last reply because I feel like I'm wasting time—and I don't even completely disagree with you.

Fans have lost faith because of a decade of...
• maintenance cuts
• unfinished refurbs
• no new E-ticket in the MK for 22 years
• empty and half-empty pavilions throughout Epcot
• a giant, plastic hat that clashes with the only well-themed portion of the Studios
• nets around the Tree of Life
• generic merchandise
• cutbacks on entertainment, landscaping, and custodial
• cutbacks on holiday overlays and decorations
• cutbacks on hard-ticket fireworks shows and perks—yet higher prices
• simplified menus in full-service restaurants thanks to the DDP
• impossible-to-book, yet mediocre restaurants thanks to the DDP and mommy blog websites that have convinced tourists the Disney vacation isn't perfect without a meal at ----- (Chef Mickey's? Le Cellier?)
• broken AAs throughout existing attractions
• FP+ queues on people-eating attractions that don't need it (Captain EO? POTC? HM? SSE?)
• $600/night rooms on the monorail circuit. (Have you stayed there? I have. They're about the same as a Hilton.)
• Overpriced rooms everywhere else (almost $200/night for Pop around Christmas!)
• Artificially booked resorts (rooms are simply blocked off)
• Skyrocketing ticket prices
• Extremely high food prices
• High crowd levels without enough attractions to absorb everyone
• Inadequate transportation for those crowds, since many of them are staying off property


There have been a few good things, too...
• The FLE, which is only decent because of fan outcry—it was originally nothing but M&Gs and a C-ticket Mermaid ride
• A very good Splash Mt. refurb that happened after 2 years of neglect and bad Internet PR
• Quick-service food quality has risen in response to overbooked sit-down restaurants
• Merch prices leveled off because sales have plummeted

Yet the crowds do keep pouring in, because Disney has also managed four things rather well:
(1) Deep discounts for foreign Guests
(2) Decent discounts on American packages, plus Free Dining
(3) Clever advertising that's thick on nostalgia.
(4) DVC sales (although their fan base is starting to complain about staleness)

—All of which have made the Vacation Kingdom of the World a place that essentially functions on nostalgia, time shares, and discounts. It produces quick profits without investing in long-term growth.

You'll always have scary fanboys who live in their parent's basement and are never happy with anything, but most fan complaints are justified.

Awesome summary. This should be a sticky at the top of all the forums, lol.

 

[ford91exploder]

This will be my last reply because I feel like I'm wasting time—and I don't even completely disagree with you.

Fans have lost faith because of a decade of...
• maintenance cuts
• unfinished refurbs
• no new E-ticket in the MK for 22 years
• empty and half-empty pavilions throughout Epcot
• a giant, plastic hat that clashes with the only well-themed portion of the Studios
• nets around the Tree of Life
• generic merchandise
• cutbacks on entertainment, landscaping, and custodial
• cutbacks on holiday overlays and decorations
• cutbacks on hard-ticket fireworks shows and perks—yet higher prices
• simplified menus in full-service restaurants thanks to the DDP
• impossible-to-book, yet mediocre restaurants thanks to the DDP and mommy blog websites that have convinced tourists the Disney vacation isn't perfect without a meal at ----- (Chef Mickey's? Le Cellier?)
• broken AAs throughout existing attractions
• FP+ queues on people-eating attractions that don't need it (Captain EO? POTC? HM? SSE?)
• $600/night rooms on the monorail circuit. (Have you stayed there? I have. They're about the same as a Hilton.)
• Overpriced rooms everywhere else (almost $200/night for Pop around Christmas!)
• Artificially booked resorts (rooms are simply blocked off)
• Skyrocketing ticket prices
• Extremely high food prices
• High crowd levels without enough attractions to absorb everyone
• Inadequate transportation for those crowds, since many of them are staying off property


There have been a few good things, too...
• The FLE, which is only decent because of fan outcry—it was originally nothing but M&Gs and a C-ticket Mermaid ride
• A very good Splash Mt. refurb that happened after 2 years of neglect and bad Internet PR
• Quick-service food quality has risen in response to overbooked sit-down restaurants
• Merch prices leveled off because sales have plummeted

Yet the crowds do keep pouring in, because Disney has also managed four things rather well:
(1) Deep discounts for foreign Guests
(2) Decent discounts on American packages, plus Free Dining
(3) Clever advertising that's thick on nostalgia.
(4) DVC sales (although their fan base is starting to complain about staleness)

—All of which have made the Vacation Kingdom of the World a place that essentially functions on nostalgia, time shares, and discounts. It produces quick profits without investing in long-term growth.

You'll always have scary fanboys who live in their parent's basement and are never happy with anything, but most fan complaints are justified.

Thanks @tirian, I think this post needs to be a Sticky as to why many of us who have been going to Disney most of our lives starting as children and taking own kids there why we are SO upset with the current state of WDW. All we really want is for Disney to live up to the standard it set for ITSELF.

 

[tirian]

Awesome summary. This should be a sticky at the top of all the forums, lol.

Well, to be fair, some areas are actually improving right now—

—in California.

 

[marni1971]

Well, to be fair, many areas are actually improving right now.

Hellfire back in Hallowishes? Space Mountain being rebuilt properly? Spaceship Earth being finished?

Or bigger burgers on the cheeseburgers?

 

[ford91exploder]

Hellfire back in Hallowishes? Space Mountain being rebuilt properly? Spaceship Earth being finished?

Or bigger burgers on the cheeseburgers?

I'll take all 3 on the burgers though you would think that Disney could at least make them as large as the one ones on Wendy's dollar menu for 9 bucks though...

 

[tirian]

Hellfire back in Hallowishes? Space Mountain being rebuilt properly? Spaceship Earth being finished?

Or bigger burgers on the cheeseburgers?

@marni1971 That post was an accident. You quoted it before I fixed my intentions.

 

[Figaro928]

If you recall when it was built there was a new 'Twilight Zone' series on and Rod Serling was having a upsurge in popularity.

Chicken or egg? Was the attraction announced and then came the series or visa versa

 

[marni1971]

@marni1971 That post was an accident. You quoted it before I fixed my intentions.

I see. Very nice!

 

[danlb_2000]

Why should we give Disney the benefit of the doubt?, The Ariel Ride in NFL had the potential to be AMAZING and if the amount of thought that went into the queue had been extended to the ride itself it WOULD have been amazing. Ariel DESERVED a lot better ride than she got.

I'm judging Disney on current track record and it's not good

Because I have nothing to loose by giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I agree wholeheartedly with this - In my case my utter disgust with the Avatar story colors my viewpoint.

I also think that Disney will 'value engineer' Pandora so that all the beautiful visuals will be lost, Look at NFL concept art vs reality. I expect that Disney will do the same here

Biolumenscent plants would be amazing at night but the fiber optics to pull that off would be $10 bucks per leaf I just can't see TODAYS Disney doing that, 1990's Disney Absolutely would, What we will get is a tunnel with UV lights causing painted leaves to glow.

I disagree with your assessment of NFL, I think visually it is fantastic and lives up to the concept art. The problem with NFL is content, not execution.

As for story, I watched Tranformers 3 the other night and turned it off 3/4 of the way though and it only made it that long because I was doing other things while watching it. Despite this I can't wait to check out the Tranformers ride at Uni and I don't seem to be the only one since it has turned out to be a very popular ride.

 

[ford91exploder]

Chicken or egg? Was the attraction announced and then came the series or visa versa

I don't recall but at that time there was a surge of interest in Rod Serling and I think Disney rode the wave so to speak. And it only took them a year or so to bring the ride online.

 

[ford91exploder]

Because I have nothing to loose by giving them the benefit of the doubt.



I disagree with your assessment of NFL, I think visually it is fantastic and lives up to the concept art. The problem with NFL is content, not execution.

As for story, I watched Tranformers 3 the other night and turned it off 3/4 of the way though and it only made it that long because I was doing other things while watching it. Despite this I can't wait to check out the Tranformers ride at Uni and I don't seem to be the only one since it has turned out to be a very popular ride.

Agree with you on NFL content, My complaint is where are the TREES that were in the art, At least 'Toontown had TREES - NFL is like standing in a (stroller) parking lot if you stand still you are gonna die of heatstroke there.

 

[ford91exploder]

Because I have nothing to loose by giving them the benefit of the doubt.



I disagree with your assessment of NFL, I think visually it is fantastic and lives up to the concept art. The problem with NFL is content, not execution.

As for story, I watched Tranformers 3 the other night and turned it off 3/4 of the way though and it only made it that long because I was doing other things while watching it. Despite this I can't wait to check out the Tranformers ride at Uni and I don't seem to be the only one since it has turned out to be a very popular ride.

I think to properly enjoy transformers you need to be between 7-14 years old.

 

[danlb_2000]

Agree with you on NFL content, My complaint is where are the TREES that were in the art, At least 'Toontown had TREES - NFL is like standing in a (stroller) parking lot if you stand still you are gonna die of heatstroke there.

I am waiting until the Mine Ride is done to judge the tree situation since it it going to add a lot of foliage to the area.