Autism lawsuit court date set Feb 2020

[Ravenclaw78]

I have autism and anxiety and I sometimes have problems with the wait times. While I do have DAS set up, I don't use it very often unless I know I'll legitimately panic in the line for a ride. Unfortunately it seems that some people like to abuse the system, and this court case gives me a foreboding feeling about the future of the DAS for autistic people.

I only have DAS so if I need it I can use it. Same with my mom, who has her own due to a leg injury. But enough people game the system that I'm starting to worry. And lawsuits about an old version of the DAS seem to me to be a cue for higher-ups to restrict it further.

You should never have to feel like you shouldn't use your DAS passes freely just because some other people abuse the system. I hope you're using it as much or as little as makes the most sense for your family, but if using it more than you do now would improve your experience in the parks even a little, you've every right to do that. We've found that we quickly reached a balance that worked perfectly for us (too much and we waste time and energy going back and forth across the park, but too little and our anxiety levels remain too high to really enjoy our time in the parks) once we were able to let go of the guilt from the pressure that society places on us to believe our disabilities are somehow less important than everyone else's.

(My daughter and I both have anxiety disorders that are especially triggered by feeling trapped in situations like long lines, and sensory processing issues as well. I am probably somewhere on the spectrum, but nobody was diagnosing kids in the 70's and 80's with those types of disorders unless they were severely impaired. So we're in a similar situation to yours.)

The lawsuit, as @trojanjustin said, won't result in a restriction of DAS, even in the extremely unlikely event that it is decided in favor of the plaintiff. At most, it will add an optional front-of-line DAS tier for severely autistic guests, and those of us who do not need that level of access will continue using the existing system.

 

[unmitigated disaster]

I am just trying to imagine the questions the parents are going to be asked. "So, your child can't wait? How do you handle holidays? Doctor's office visits? Birthday celebrations? New episodes of TV shows or movie sequels?" If the kid was female I'd so be asking " how does your kid handle the omnipresent Disney bathroom lines? " and watch them skulk off the stand.

 

[Ravenclaw78]

BTW to fellow adults, never be afraid to act like a kid. Judgmental people can stuff it. I found this Niffler plush over at Universal last year that is just exactly the perfect texture my brain needs to soothe my nerves during an anxiety attack. I bring it with me around WDW and anywhere I'm going to be in a situation where one of my triggers is unavoidable (i.e. airport security) and just ignore the odd looks I get for snuggling a plushy like my life depends on it while my daughter clings to her own sensory aids as well. Do what gets you through the day, and to heck with the rest of the world.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

BTW to fellow adults, never be afraid to act like a kid. Judgmental people can stuff it. I found this Niffler plush over at Universal last year that is just exactly the perfect texture my brain needs to soothe my nerves during an anxiety attack. I bring it with me around WDW and anywhere I'm going to be in a situation where one of my triggers is unavoidable (i.e. airport security) and just ignore the odd looks I get for snuggling a plushy like my life depends on it while my daughter clings to her own sensory aids as well. Do what gets you through the day, and to heck with the rest of the world.

AMEN!!!

 

[unmitigated disaster]

Everybody needs a cute niffler plush.

 

[larryz]

BTW to fellow adults, never be afraid to act like a kid. Judgmental people can stuff it. I found this Niffler plush over at Universal last year that is just exactly the perfect texture my brain needs to soothe my nerves during an anxiety attack. I bring it with me around WDW and anywhere I'm going to be in a situation where one of my triggers is unavoidable (i.e. airport security) and just ignore the odd looks I get for snuggling a plushy like my life depends on it while my daughter clings to her own sensory aids as well. Do what gets you through the day, and to heck with the rest of the world.

Congrats on finding an unobtrusive coping mechanism that helps you in your life. Clinging to a plushy doesn't impact other people around you and anyone put off by that should just mind their own business.

However, if one's preferred coping mechanism requires being given immediate access to all attractions without consideration for hundreds of people who are already waiting in line, then I believe Disney is right in applying a standard procedure like the DAS card, a consistent, fair, reasonable measure to ensure equitable accommodation that doesn't negate the value of time invested by everybody else.

And enforcing that standard makes a DAS card far less attractive as a loophole for those inclined to cheat their way into an attraction.

 

[Ravenclaw78]

Congrats on finding an unobtrusive coping mechanism that helps you in your life. Clinging to a plushy doesn't impact other people around you and anyone put off by that should just mind their own business.

However, if one's preferred coping mechanism requires being given immediate access to all attractions without consideration for hundreds of people who are already waiting in line, then I believe Disney is right in applying a standard procedure like the DAS card, a consistent, fair, reasonable measure to ensure equitable accommodation that doesn't negate the value of time invested by everybody else.

And enforcing that standard makes a DAS card far less attractive as a loophole for those inclined to cheat their way into an attraction.

100% agreed.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Congrats on finding an unobtrusive coping mechanism that helps you in your life. Clinging to a plushy doesn't impact other people around you and anyone put off by that should just mind their own business.

However, if one's preferred coping mechanism requires being given immediate access to all attractions without consideration for hundreds of people who are already waiting in line, then I believe Disney is right in applying a standard procedure like the DAS card, a consistent, fair, reasonable measure to ensure equitable accommodation that doesn't negate the value of time invested by everybody else.

And enforcing that standard makes a DAS card far less attractive as a loophole for those inclined to cheat their way into an attraction.

YES.

 

[King Panda 77]

Everybody needs a cute niffler plush.

I'm holding out for a real one ...

 

[SirWillow]

Very interesting reading on the whole thing. We have an autism strand running in my wife's family. Her niece is autistic, a cousin, we think her father may have been on the spectrum in some ways (he passed a few years back) and we're suspicious that her brother and very likely my daughter is on the spectrum as well (going through testing with my daughter- we know there is something there but the actual diagnosis is still debatable). My niece would need accommodations, and likely my wife's cousin. But the others wouldn't.

Then I worked with and experienced many autistic guests at WDW. Some asked why take them to a place like Disney? Because Disney has an amazing way of breaking through the barriers that many of them struggle with on a daily basis. I saw them able to break through, deal with, learn, and relate in ways at Disney that they couldn't in other places. I actually talk about one such incredible experience I witnessed on my video earlier this week ("Crying Behind the Lens" if you look for it on YouTube).

After seeing that up close and personal, and seeing how similar trips impacted my niece, there's no way I would deny them the opportunity to go to Disney.

But I also see this lawsuit as a means to try to game the system and take advantage. The current system works very well. Is it perfect? No, but I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect system. There are means of adjusting it on a case by case basis though (as seen with Make a Wish and others) and it works about as well as any system out there I think.

As such, I don't see the lawsuit getting much further. They certainly aren't going to win.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Very interesting reading on the whole thing. We have an autism strand running in my wife's family. Her niece is autistic, a cousin, we think her father may have been on the spectrum in some ways (he passed a few years back) and we're suspicious that her brother and very likely my daughter is on the spectrum as well (going through testing with my daughter- we know there is something there but the actual diagnosis is still debatable). My niece would need accommodations, and likely my wife's cousin. But the others wouldn't.

Then I worked with and experienced many autistic guests at WDW. Some asked why take them to a place like Disney? Because Disney has an amazing way of breaking through the barriers that many of them struggle with on a daily basis. I saw them able to break through, deal with, learn, and relate in ways at Disney that they couldn't in other places. I actually talk about one such incredible experience I witnessed on my video earlier this week ("Crying Behind the Lens" if you look for it on YouTube).

After seeing that up close and personal, and seeing how similar trips impacted my niece, there's no way I would deny them the opportunity to go to Disney.

But I also see this lawsuit as a means to try to game the system and take advantage. The current system works very well. Is it perfect? No, but I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect system. There are means of adjusting it on a case by case basis though (as seen with Make a Wish and others) and it works about as well as any system out there I think.

As such, I don't see the lawsuit getting much further. They certainly aren't going to win.

Good luck with your daughter's testing - I'll keep your family in my prayers.

 

[Hcalvert]

Do any of you offering "fixes" for this actually have an autistic child/sibling ?

I do, but I haven't commented until now. My son hasn't needed to use DAS and after turning 16-years-old, he has refused to go with us (he said because of the crowds).

 

[mergatroid]

The lawsuit, as @trojanjustin said, won't result in a restriction of DAS, even in the extremely unlikely event that it is decided in favor of the plaintiff. At most, it will add an optional front-of-line DAS tier for severely autistic guests, and those of us who do not need that level of access will continue using the existing system.

The problem with that outcome as far as I understand is that the law says Disney can't demand to see proof that an individual is disabled in any way. So that would mean any of us could say "I'm severely autistic" and Disney would be obliged to accept this and allow us to the front of the line. They could say "We don't believe you, you'll have to use the line like everyone else" but the bad PR this would create if a cast member made the wrong call would likely mean they'd rather just allow everyone saying it to the front of the line and avoid complaints or lawsuits.

The judge could rule that severely autistic guests get a front of line DAS, I get that. However they couldn't rule that a guest has to prove their condition (as far as I'm aware) as there's greater laws prohibiting this that he or she couldn't change. So basically the judge ruling this would be opening up the gates for DAS abuse, that's not their concern though as that's a separate issue for Disney to contend with.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

The problem with that outcome as far as I understand is that the law says Disney can't demand to see proof that an individual is disabled in any way. So that would mean any of us could say "I'm severely autistic" and Disney would be obliged to accept this and allow us to the front of the line. They could say "We don't believe you, you'll have to use the line like everyone else" but the bad PR this would create if a cast member made the wrong call would likely mean they'd rather just allow everyone saying it to the front of the line and avoid complaints or lawsuits.

The judge could rule that severely autistic guests get a front of line DAS, I get that. However he couldn't rule that a guest has to prove their condition (as far as I'm aware) as there's greater laws prohibiting this that he couldn't change. So basically the judge ruling this would be opening up the gates for DAS abuse, that's not his concern though as that's a separate issue for Disney to contend with.

And that's exactly why the DAS system was created.

 

[LittleGiants'16]

As the parent of an autistic child, the Disability Access Pass system is excellent and well-implemented. As an attorney, I can't believe this hasn't been laughed out of court.

It’s the plaintiff’s bar at its finest, friend.

Very interesting reading on the whole thing. We have an autism strand running in my wife's family. Her niece is autistic, a cousin, we think her father may have been on the spectrum in some ways (he passed a few years back) and we're suspicious that her brother and very likely my daughter is on the spectrum as well (going through testing with my daughter- we know there is something there but the actual diagnosis is still debatable). My niece would need accommodations, and likely my wife's cousin. But the others wouldn't.

Then I worked with and experienced many autistic guests at WDW. Some asked why take them to a place like Disney? Because Disney has an amazing way of breaking through the barriers that many of them struggle with on a daily basis. I saw them able to break through, deal with, learn, and relate in ways at Disney that they couldn't in other places. I actually talk about one such incredible experience I witnessed on my video earlier this week ("Crying Behind the Lens" if you look for it on YouTube).

After seeing that up close and personal, and seeing how similar trips impacted my niece, there's no way I would deny them the opportunity to go to Disney.

But I also see this lawsuit as a means to try to game the system and take advantage. The current system works very well. Is it perfect? No, but I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect system. There are means of adjusting it on a case by case basis though (as seen with Make a Wish and others) and it works about as well as any system out there I think.

As such, I don't see the lawsuit getting much further. They certainly aren't going to win.

Judges do dumb things regularly. From my understanding, the plaintiff got past a motion to dismiss or a motion for summary judgment, probably both. If the judge didn’t think there was something here, she would’ve probably booted the case years ago. But she didn’t, so I’m more concerned.

 

[Ravenclaw78]

The problem with that outcome as far as I understand is that the law says Disney can't demand to see proof that an individual is disabled in any way. So that would mean any of us could say "I'm severely autistic" and Disney would be obliged to accept this and allow us to the front of the line. They could say "We don't believe you, you'll have to use the line like everyone else" but the bad PR this would create if a cast member made the wrong call would likely mean they'd rather just allow everyone saying it to the front of the line and avoid complaints or lawsuits.

The judge could rule that severely autistic guests get a front of line DAS, I get that. However they couldn't rule that a guest has to prove their condition (as far as I'm aware) as there's greater laws prohibiting this that he or she couldn't change. So basically the judge ruling this would be opening up the gates for DAS abuse, that's not their concern though as that's a separate issue for Disney to contend with.

Basically. There are other parks that use a 2-tier system (Legoland, for instance), but they're far smaller than WDW. I can't see a reasonable way to make it work at Disney, but the judge does not necessarily have to be mindful of practical constraints. As I see it, there are three possible outcomes to this case. The first, and most likely by far, is that the parties settle out of court or the judge finds in favor of Disney, and they keep using the current DAS system (which was designed specifically to address the abuse you describe). Second, and this is the plaintiff's goal, is for Disney to end DAS and re-establish the old system (unlimited front-of-line access for everyone with accessibility cards). Third, the judge forces Disney to establish a 2-tier system, which I think is likely to be a nightmare for everyone involved even though I support this approach in theory at less populated parks. I think DAS as it stands today is the most reasonable compromise between accessibility and reducing abuse of the system.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Basically. There are other parks that use a 2-tier system (Legoland, for instance), but they're far smaller than WDW. I can't see a reasonable way to make it work at Disney, but the judge does not necessarily have to be mindful of practical constraints. As I see it, there are three possible outcomes to this case. The first, and most likely by far, is that the parties settle out of court or the judge finds in favor of Disney, and they keep using the current DAS system (which was designed specifically to address the abuse you describe). Second, and this is the plaintiff's goal, is for Disney to end DAS and re-establish the old system (unlimited front-of-line access for everyone with accessibility cards). Third, the judge forces Disney to establish a 2-tier system, which I think is likely to be a nightmare for everyone involved even though I support this approach in theory at less populated parks. I think DAS as it stands today is the most reasonable compromise between accessibility and reducing abuse of the system.

Legoland also caters to a MUCH younger crowd, so it's less likely to be abused.

 

[Ravenclaw78]

Legoland also caters to a MUCH younger crowd, so it's less likely to be abused.

True. Honestly, pretty much anywhere except WDW and maybe Universal Orlando is going to have less abuse of disability services. I don't know whether it's driven by the crowds, the lines, ticket costs, unrealistic guest expectations, FP+ being too complicated, or maybe it's just purely a figment of our imaginations, but it certainly seems like there's a much higher percentage of guests at WDW that feel entitled to ignore rules any time they're inconvenient.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I sure hope this guy never has to wait to use the bathroom.

Also, please. Like they've never waited at the doctor's.

I'd like to take that comment and pose it more respectfully to those who have autism or family with autism. (I have a nephew I was told was "on the spectrum" at a young age, but he lives in another state and there was some debate as to whether he actually had autism or not. My brother doesn't talk about it. I haven't asked.)

So, is waiting at the doctor's office different...because it's a different kind of experience? In other words, nobody is excited to get into the doctor's office, so it's not the same as waiting to go on Haunted Mansion? Serious question, not challenging anything, just don't know and would like to understand.

And waiting for the bathroom - first of all, how often does one really have to do that? I've rarely encountered lines at a bathroom except at a club on Saturday night (not ever at WDW) and obviously a bathroom line will never be as long as standby at Peter Pan, so is it something easier to just "get through" if you come across it?

I'd like to have answers ready for someone who might ask those questions in a flippant manner.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

My daughter and I both have anxiety disorders that are especially triggered by feeling trapped in situations like long lines

I haven't been diagnosed with anything (when I was a kid in the 70's, the only things people were diagnosed with were scoliosis and lice. I got scoliosis LOL.) But I recently discovered a very small dose of alprazolam (xanax) will make me function more "normally" in stressful situations. (It was prescribed to help me shut the brain off to go to sleep at night, and then kind of expanded from there.) ETA: I couldn't admit "anxiety" and "stress" were real things until about 3 years ago.

But I can get panicky if I feel like I can't get out of a certain place easily. Standing in line at the beginning of the Peter Pan queue is cool. Getting stuck in the relatively small, dark space almost to the boats on Pirates (I think there are steps or a slope?) because the ride goes down for ten minutes, I have to avoid getting into my head or I will feel like just running out of there.

I've found my phone to be a Godsend. I can just play solitaire or chat here, and it takes me almost out of that situation temporarily. (Solitaire works better.) Does that help you at all? I also do this while standing on a crowded bus back to the hotel. My husband knows if I'm playing solitaire, I'm stressed lol.