Attendence falls at WDW per lastest earnings release...

[captainkidd]

This is a very incorrect assumption. Young adults and older families are flocking to a Universal only vacation like never before. There is finally a reason to make the expense of flying or driving to Central Florida beyond Disney being worth it. I knew several families taking a day or three away from a beach holiday to visit HP instead of Disney. I also know a few families going this winter for a Universal only long weekend.

The same number will go see the new Twilight movie. Maybe Disney should counter with Twilightland.

 

[tirian]

Wow, so this is where the smart people on the boards hang out! I'm so glad to see the bus issue mentioned here intelligently. A couple weeks ago I was voicing my opinion on the horrible bus situation and what can be done about it.
I got attacked by several people here saying to shut up because it's free. And that I should hire a taxi or rent a car if I didn't like it. WDW is expensive enough, I don't need to spend extra money. They are offering the service so if it's not working right, fix it. Don't tell me to pay more to rent a car.
As I said then, the "free" bus service is part of a business plan to keep guests on property spending money. If everyone rented cars they might be more likely to drive right off property to Universal! Lets not even mention potential problems with drunk driving, congestion of WDW road, outside transportation businesses coming in to provide services, etc.
The largest turn offs for me about returning to WDW are horrible bus service, scooters multiplying faster than rabbits, and Vinylmation and pins everywhere. I LOVE Disney. I still love going there. However these things that are annoying but manageable now may turn into the straw that breaks the camels back next time I'm booking my vacation. Kind of like that toothpaste cap that is slightly annoying at the beginning of the relationship and ends up destroying it.
Disney fix these problems! Fix the damn bus service! Read Lee's post and consider what he is saying about a sound business plan! Give WDW some real care and attention. We are all starting to feel like the Orlando park is not getting what it needs. I do not have low expectations and for those who do here, I will not shut up. Ever.

Bus systems have always been unreliable, which is why back in the 60s, Walt knew a successful city of the future (*cough* E.P.C.O.T.) would require people movers and monorails.

The golden age for monorail expansion has ended; the cost has ballooned to several million per mile. But Disney did successfully operate their buses for years without significant issues. I remember when a new bus seemed to arrive every 15 minutes. Now the average is 45, even in the busy summer months. Considering that the outrageous hotel prices help finance the transportation system, Disney is probably cutting back on bus staff because of the hotel discounts.

And that brings us back to the value of rack-rate resort prices. Most Guests are staying on discounts anyway; you can get 40% off deluxe resorts right now! I won't pretend to have concrete financial numbers, but it seems that if Disney simply dropped their rack rates 20%–30% across property and stopped offering discounts, they wouldn't have to keep offering packages, and they would have more money available for maintenance and transportation.

Running WDW is a huge financial headache, and I don't envy those people's jobs. But Disney has to accept that the resort is an entertainment complex, not a business firm or a necessity, and entertainment requires balancing finances with creative risks.

As corny as it sounds, they also need to believe in their product. I'm not talking about making magic or pixie dust; I'm talking about really buying into the purpose of the parks. The only way to be a successful entertainer is to believe in what you're doing. Even though Disney has always been a business, their sincere desire to offer the best quality possible made them successful. The animated classics and every theme park from Disneyland to Tokyo Disney Sea exist because the business people also believed in what they were doing. WDW's expansion in the 80s and 90s didn't happen because the execs viewed Disney as a stepping stone to a better job in a Wall Street firm; the expansion happened because the company really believed Disney should be the best family vacation anywhere. It's very possible to be a great entertainer and run a successful, profitable business. Walt Disney and the Eisner/Wells team proved that.

 

[tirian]

My last rant will be about the merchandise. Other than Duffy, who I'm convinced is nothing more than an obvious attempt to sell merchandise to young kids, my kids didn't really beg me for anything. It was only my youngest child that wanted the Duffy stuff. (BTW - I haven't seen Duffy since we got home, so there's no chance we'll ever buy more of his stuff.) Why? Because it was the same stuff everywhere. There was nothing there that wasn't available in almost every store, and NO unique merchandise. Same guns at Pirates that were in Frontierland and Indiana Jones, same pins at every pin cart and store, same t-s in every store, same this, same that, same thing, same everywhere. They didn't even notice the stuff enough to bother begging for it. When a Dad takes a solo trip (DW stayed home) with his 3 kids, and they find less than $100 of merchandise to buy. You have a problem with what you're offering. The one thing we did buy, T-Shirts at Design-a-T in DTD. Why? Because we could make them unique to the trip, so it was something we could take home and it would help us remember this trip for a long time.

The merch problem is company-wide. I went to Disneyland about a month ago and couldn't find anything to buy. When I can get the same stuff inside a Disney Store or at Target, why would I want to pay more in the theme park?

 

[JimboJones123]

The same number will go see the new Twilight movie. Maybe Disney should counter with Twilightland.

Unless Universal grabs the rights first.

 

[tirian]

Last post in a row, I promise.

The complaints aren't discrediting the good things going on at WDW, and I'm impressed they're finally investing in maintenance and quality again within the parks. But fewer food options, cut Christmas decorations, overpriced and therefore over-discounted hotels, and free DDP (plus its side effect of making the food generic and outrageously expensive) still exhibit foolish business decisions that need to be rectified.

 

[tirian]

Unless Universal grabs the rights first.

They can have it. At least Disney emphasizes solid franchises in its parks, and not momentary fads. :hurl:

Oh, wait. Let's ignore the Tiki Room Under New Management. And Stitch's Great Escape. And all the Stitch merchandise. And the Disney Channel "talent."

 

[ChrisFL]

The same number will go see the new Twilight movie. Maybe Disney should counter with Twilightland.

Twilight and Harry Potter have NOTHING in common.

Now Lord of the Rings on the other hand...

I also agree that anyone who doesn't think there's any correlation between Universal's attendance seeing a MASSIVE increase and Disney seeing a big decline are fooling themselves.

Also, Universal won't be resting on their laurels if the recent rumors are any indication, they will probably be taking this spike in income and running with it, to add more new attractions.

 

[T-1MILLION]

The same number will go see the new Twilight movie. Maybe Disney should counter with Twilightland.

Disney won't even spend dollars at WDW to fix a broken signature animatronic..even if they wanted something like that what makes you think they would spend the money?

That being said your post is nonsense. This is a Part seven movie coming out, and worldwide is far more popular than Twilight. Let's also totally discount the seven possible best selling books of all time to Twlight's...really good selling books. The appeal of Potter is also of any age group where as Twilight is mostly female and prodimantly teen female.

It is really quite hilarious and sad at the same time to watch some of the Disney fans defend this as if it is not potter.

Let's say it only alters most WDW vacationer plans. There are thousands among thousands who visited this year and shaved a day off of their four or five day Disney stay they were already taking to go see Potter at Universal. Even if its just one day, you can be Disney is far less than happy with that.


Also I saw someone mention their dissapointment in Duffy. Universal has sold thousands more pygmy puffs than Duffy has and will sell. They can't even keep stuff at the wizarding world like Pygmy Puffs on the shelves.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Twilight and Harry Potter have NOTHING in common.

Now Lord of the Rings on the other hand...

I also agree that anyone who doesn't think there's any correlation between Universal's attendance seeing a MASSIVE increase and Disney seeing a big decline are fooling themselves.

Also, Universal won't be resting on their laurels if the recent rumors are any indication, they will probably be taking this spike in income and running with it, to add more new attractions.

Universal has been looking at both Avatar and Lord of the Rings as the next additions to Islands of Adventure.

 

[Lee]

The merch problem is company-wide. I went to Disneyland about a month ago and couldn't find anything to buy. When I can get the same stuff inside a Disney Store or at Target, why would I want to pay more in the theme park?

That's just another example of their flawed busniess model where every location has to turn a profit to justify it's existence.
A store in Adventureland, for example, that used to sell cool safari clothes and authentic African trinkets now sells generic park merchandise and toys.
Why? Because despite the fact that the old way added to the show and theme of the land, it has to sell items that guests are more likely to buy and have a higher profit margin. That means WDW 2010 sweatshirts, not nice khaki safari shirts.
That's why there is no longer a magic shop and others of it's ilk.
I fear for Sid's Cahuenga's future in this climate.

Universal has been looking at both Avatar and Lord of the Rings as the next additions to Islands of Adventure.

Potter will be expanded to take over the remains of Lost Continent well before either of those properties have a chance of being developed.

 

[captainkidd]

Disney won't even spend dollars at WDW to fix a broken signature animatronic..even if they wanted something like that what makes you think they would spend the money?

That being said your post is nonsense. This is a Part seven movie coming out, and worldwide is far more popular than Twilight. Let's also totally discount the seven possible best selling books of all time to Twlight's...really good selling books. The appeal of Potter is also of any age group where as Twilight is mostly female and prodimantly teen female.

It is really quite hilarious and sad at the same time to watch some of the Disney fans defend this as if it is not potter.

Let's say it only alters most WDW vacationer plans. There are thousands among thousands who visited this year and shaved a day off of their four or five day Disney stay they were already taking to go see Potter at Universal. Even if its just one day, you can be Disney is far less than happy with that.


Also I saw someone mention their dissapointment in Duffy. Universal has sold thousands more pygmy puffs than Duffy has and will sell. They can't even keep stuff at the wizarding world like Pygmy Puffs on the shelves.

Calm down dude - It was a joke.

 

[Atomicmickey]

Potter will be expanded to take over the remains of Lost Continent well before either of those properties have a chance of being developed.

This makes a lot of sense--because it is already successful, they would not have to negotiate any new licensing agreements, they could sell the same merchandise, and it's possible to re-theme further rides as well. Maybe a Wizard duel in the Poseidon's Fury building? Would be cool and could use a lot of the same effects . . . .

As for Disney countering with a new theme . . . I really thing the only thing that occupies the same space in the popular zeitgeist that could work for Disney is to make an entire STAR WARS-themed land. They already have their relationship with Lucasfilm. Makes sense.

I don't know where they'd put it, as an extension of the area in the studios, maybe, but it seems like a walk through Coruscant, an expanded Ewok village beyond just the queue, and a Mos Eisley street scene might be in order, if they want to directly answer.

Then again, they've already said that "CarsLand" IS their answer to HP. Never mind that it's not in Orlando, lol. They mean as far as execution of attraction/theme/retail in a space, I'm sure.

 

[SeaCastle]

The merch problem is company-wide. I went to Disneyland about a month ago and couldn't find anything to buy. When I can get the same stuff inside a Disney Store or at Target, why would I want to pay more in the theme park?

I can echo these remarks. It doesn't really matter which WDP&R property we've been to...we barely buy anything anymore.

One of the last vestiges of unique merchandise at WDW is World Showcase. I'm shocked the bastions of WDW (Wal-Marting Disney World) haven't gotten here yet. It's a pleasure to simply be in those shops...much less at the Emporium or anywhere in the Magic Kingdom where you can buy the same thing anywhere. Supposedly we have Dan Cockerell (current VP of EPCOT and son of Lee Cockerell) to thank for this, but from what I've read this seems more of a case of someone with no business in a certain position trying to run a park to the best of their ability rather than maliciously Wal-marting.)

Remember the days when movie execs ran the Magic Kingdom...where they would spend $1 million to buy unique products for the antique shop at Liberty Square, but only make $100,000 in return? I don't. Those were the days when show people ran the parks, and it's fair to say those days are far and gone.

 

[_Scar]

The merch problem is company-wide. I went to Disneyland about a month ago and couldn't find anything to buy. When I can get the same stuff inside a Disney Store or at Target, why would I want to pay more in the theme park?

I also agree with this except when I actually eventually (like maybe three times my last week long trip) the item will always be 5 dollars more than the maximum I'm willing to pay.


And on a different note, WDW prices for FL residents aren't too appetizing. I save more money renting thru DVC than using the FL resident discount which is pretty sad.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

As far as the economy goes WDW is as blind as DC ! Maybe someone from the Tea Party should run TDO !

May we be saved from that!

 

[T-1MILLION]

Calm down dude - It was a joke.

Sarcasm is difficult to read on internet forums and you would probably not be surprised to know that such nonsense in posts exist.




Everyone just wait until Universal eventually starts dishing out the holidays for Potter. My guess is as soon as next year. It will blow Mickey's Very Merry away when IOA has both Grinchmas and Potter's holiday celebrations.

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

I knew several families taking a day or three away from a beach holiday to visit HP instead of Disney.

Unless you know millions, thousands, or even hundreds of families who skip Disney and just visit HP... Your statement is pretty much pointless.

in fact, less than 5% of Americans will visit WDW this year.

5% of 300 million is only 15 million. The Magic Kingdom park alone brings in 17 million visitors.

2x the number of Americans will go see HP 7.1 the opening weekend.

Why are you trying to compare theme park visitors to movie goers?

That's comparing Apples to Oranges and doesn't translate at all into theme park guests.

They are not the only big fish in the pond anymore.

Disney will always hold a permanent monopoly in the theme park business... There's just no beating them.

You can't compare WDW's 40+ million visitors a year to Universal's 11+ million. To suggest that Universal could even come close to matching Disney's number is foolish...

It's also foolish not to have seen Universal's increase coming. Sure maybe IOA will rise to 6 or 7 million visitors this year... While Magic Kingdom could drop to 16 million or so...

But 16 million is ALWAYS going to beat 6 or 7 million... period.

Disney is and will always be the biggest fish in the theme park pond.

 

[JimboJones123]

Unless you know millions, thousands, or even hundreds of families who skip Disney and just visit HP... Your statement is pretty much pointless.



5% of 300 million is only 15 million. The Magic Kingdom park alone brings in 17 million visitors.



Why are you trying to compare theme park visitors to movie goers?

That's comparing Apples to Oranges and doesn't translate at all into theme park guests.



Disney will always hold a permanent monopoly in the theme park business... There's just no beating them.

You can't compare WDW's 40+ million visitors a year to Universal's 11+ million. To suggest that Universal could even come close to matching Disney's number is foolish...

It's also foolish not to have seen Universal's increase coming. Sure maybe IOA will rise to 6 or 7 million visitors this year... While Magic Kingdom could drop to 16 million or so...

But 16 million is ALWAYS going to beat 6 or 7 million... period.

Disney is and will always be the biggest fish in the theme park pond.

Your post makes me feel kinda funny inside, are you hitting on me?

 

[T-1MILLION]

Your post makes me feel kinda funny inside, are you hitting on me?

Like when you used to climb the rope in Gym Class?

To Disneyorkian.

Yes 15 or 16 million will always beat 6 or 7 million. Disney also has about 20 years on Universal as a resort and were there first.

The fact is Universal had a rapid growth because they did something. Disney is falling because they didn't.

You can't deny that the example of people leaving a day early or more from their disney trips to go check out HP is not uncommon. Facts are Facts. WDW's guest number dropped and Universal's rose.

Disney expects to be the big deal so dropping this much within this time is a pretty significant deal. I hope powers at be people have a fun time explaining to shareholders how exactly their ESPN deal reasoning lead to WDW's drop in attendance.

 

[JimboJones123]

Like when you used to climb the rope in Gym Class?

To Disneyorkian.

Yes 15 or 16 million will always beat 6 or 7 million. Disney also has about 20 years on Universal as a resort and were there first.

The fact is Universal had a rapid growth because they did something. Disney is falling because they didn't.

You can't deny that the example of people leaving a day early or more from their disney trips to go check out HP is not uncommon. Facts are Facts. WDW's guest number dropped and Universal's rose.

Disney expects to be the big deal so dropping this much within this time is a pretty significant deal. I hope powers at be people have a fun time explaining to shareholders how exactly their ESPN deal reasoning lead to WDW's drop in attendance.

You can totally deny it. They just did in their post. So -- there!