Attendence falls at WDW per lastest earnings release...

[Korfar]

The place was busy when we went in September. Supposedly value season but is sure seemed like summer with all the people there. I think everyone is making a mountain out of a mole hill. Also everyone will have different opinions on the state of the parks. I thought it looked good when we were there. No better or worse than any of our other trips. It's all about expectations. If it doesn't live up to yours then you aren't happy and want to see changes. But not everyone has the same expectations. So therefore some of us are happy with WDW and others are not. I don't think anyone can tell another person thier perception of Disney is wrong yet that is all I see on this thread. If you aren't happy with it, fine but you can't tell someone else that is happy with it that they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[goofyoverdisney]

We just returned from WDW on Sunday. Arrived there the previous Wednesday. We chose a quick trip this time of year planning to be there with low crowds. We were NOT there with lower crowds. The parks were packed, the transportation was packed, dining places packed, lines long and school aged children were numerous. People were buying LOTS of things in the stores. When I took some family members to WDW in March, it was the same way. So, I don't buy the lower earnings, or fewer visitors, or rooms not being filled...nonsense. The parks are full, people are finding a way to "escape reality and hard times" and doing what they want to do anyway. Even if they cannot afford it, they are going to WDW on vacation. Maybe the Disney earnings are being consumed by all the new resort buildings that are going up locally and in Hawaii. Also, the cost for the new Cruise Ships and the International Cruises. Doesn't take an accountant to figure all that out. WDW business is as strong, or stronger than I have ever seen it. We have been going there for for more than 22 years, and there are more park visitors than ever before.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Purely annecdotal evidence, but my sister took her family to Orlando in August.

Late or early August? That might explain your sister's light crowds and Tigger's "magical days" from what I understand.

 

[janoimagine]

I would hope that by "shareholders" you're not referring to the fanboys who own one share of stock that's hung up on the wall. While by technicality I am a "shareholder", I only own one piece of stock and I'm virtually incapable of making any impact on Disney by selling my piece of stock.

I fall into both categories, I am a fan and have a decent amount of my portfolio in Disney stock. That being said I do not approve of what I see happening in Orlando ... Anaheim, is doing a great job with there property, how these two parks that fall under the same CEO can be going in opposite directions is beyond me.

 

[SeaCastle]

That seems to be the real problem with companies these days. They want an almost instant return on their investment. Look at movies: if the movie doesn't make its budget back on opening weekend it's practically considered a flop. There doesn't seem to be much difference with WDW. If they can't increase the profit from the previous year when they want to make a capital investment on the property, they simply won't make the investment. Any decrease in profits is rated poorly on Wall Street without consideration of the reason, which in the long run is bad for the consumer.

I own about 20 shares myself, and as long as the price is at or more than what I paid, I am content.

The problem as I see it is that the only parks that seem to be getting significant capital investments in the future are the parks that need it the most, like Disney California Adventure, Walt Disney Studios Paris, Hong Kong Disneyland, etc. If the WDW parks were struggling financially and attendance-wise, obviously they would be more willing to spend money there to save face. However, the parks seem to be (at least from a corporate stand point) doing fine. From a guest point of view, we're getting "Wal-marted"and shorted, but there are still guests coming and spending in the park, and in essence that's all that matters.

I fall into both categories, I am a fan and have a decent amount of my portfolio in Disney stock. That being said I do not approve of what I see happening in Orlando ... Anaheim, is doing a great job with there property, how these two parks that fall under the same CEO can be going in opposite directions is beyond me.

After the Christmas/Halloween party fiasco, I think it becomes more obvious the resort is being milked for cash, but at least they're adding to guest experience to compensate for it. Maintenance is great and they're constantly adding new things to the guest experience there. The resorts on both coasts are for the expressed purpose of making money...it's a business. It appears TDA is interested in spending money to make money (if you build it, they will come) while TDO maintains their "discount, increase profit margins, cross your fingers, they'll come).

In a way, I feel that the way the parks are now is in part dictated by the economy and simply the location of the parks themselves. The vast majority of Disneyland guests aren't tourists. They don't have to spend hundreds on airfare to play in the parks. They seem to have a fairly constant steam of visitors from which to attract. But WDW seems to rely more on visitors flying into Orlando, which isn't cheap. It would take more effort to get those guests in, but instead of offering more to lure guests in, they continue to discount. I would hope our Orlando friends learn that occasionally you have to make an effort to bring Guests into your park. New Fantasyland seems like a good start.

 

[disneyrcks]

DH and I went down on August 8th and stayed till August 23rd for our honeymoon. The crowds the first week were not bad. The usual suspects had long waits (peter pan, soarin, toy story mania). However our second week was when the free dining plan started and it was much more crowded! It didn't impact us at all but it there was a noticible difference with the start of free dining/last week before school.

 

[lebeau]

Late or early August? That might explain your sister's light crowds and Tigger's "magical days" from what I understand.

If I recall correctly, they were there the second week of August.

When they told me the cast members were insisting that HP was having a very noticeable effect on attendance at WDW, I tried not to roll my eyes. To say the least, I'm skeptical. But I thought I'd repeat the story since it was relevant to the thread.

 

[lebeau]

That seems to be the real problem with companies these days. They want an almost instant return on their investment. Look at movies: if the movie doesn't make its budget back on opening weekend it's practically considered a flop. There doesn't seem to be much difference with WDW. If they can't increase the profit from the previous year when they want to make a capital investment on the property, they simply won't make the investment. Any decrease in profits is rated poorly on Wall Street without consideration of the reason, which in the long run is bad for the consumer.

Not that I disagree with your point, but movies are actually a really bad analogy. The way movies work these days, if they don't make back the bulk of their investment in the opening weekend, the odds are they aren't going to. Movies are so front-loaded these days. That wasn't always the case.

I'll stop now because I could post a rant that would totally derail this thread. Just saying, movies are a different animal.

 

[fosse76]

People were buying LOTS of things in the stores. When I took some family members to WDW in March, it was the same way. So, I don't buy the lower earnings, or fewer visitors, or rooms not being filled...nonsense.

Disney just released a financial statement that proved otherwise. Just because it may have been particularly busy during your visit does not make that the norm. Not to mention you don't know WHAT or HOW MUCH people are spending.

The parks are full, people are finding a way to "escape reality and hard times" and doing what they want to do anyway. Even if they cannot afford it, they are going to WDW on vacation.

That's nonsense. If you are trying to assert that the parks are crowded because people without means are indebting themselves I'd like some proof, because that's a ridiculous statement to make. While there is no doubt people travel in debt, I seriously doubt you can attribute a crowd level to that.

Maybe the Disney earnings are being consumed by all the new resort buildings that are going up locally and in Hawaii. Also, the cost for the new Cruise Ships and the International Cruises. Doesn't take an accountant to figure all that out. WDW business is as strong, or stronger than I have ever seen it. We have been going there for for more than 22 years, and there are more park visitors than ever before.

Corporations itemize their earnings under different divisions. So the building opf new resorts and cruise ships has nothing to do with the decrease in profit and attendance at the parks. They are measured separately.

The fact is WDW saw a decrease in attendance and profit. Period. All the other Disney parks saw an increase, so the excuse about the ending date doesn't really fly, since the same period applies to the other properties. As I said in a previous post, Disney won't make any kind of investment in the park unless they think the profit can still be increased from the year before. Not making capital investments because they know people are coming is the definition of resting on laurels. And Perhaps when the entire financial year is over, maybe the numbers will convince them to actually add something new.

 

[fosse76]

Not that I disagree with your point, but movies are actually a really bad analogy. The way movies work these days, if they don't make back the bulk of their investment in the opening weekend, the odds are they aren't going to. Movies are so front-loaded these days. That wasn't always the case.

I'll stop now because I could post a rant that would totally derail this thread. Just saying, movies are a different animal.

I wasn't trying to make a perfect analogy, just make a simple point. And it isn't entirely off, since the industry itself essentially set it up that way, making it virtually impossible for them to make a profit if they don't do well opening weekend. Corporations are the same way...if their product isn't an instant success (i.e., imediate return), they suffer the consequences. While it's not an ideal analogy, it isn't as far off as you state. Disney is practically setting itself up for continued decreases in attendance by not only increasing prices, but not offering anything to justify those increases. How many people are now chosing to stay off-site because the on-site resorts? People can argue the added expense of renting a car or the parking fees, but that is negligible, and based on the WDW prices and off-site prices, it's all off-set by the savings anyway.

 

[Jim L Clifton]

Foss,
I don't know about earlier in the yr....but try & get a Reservation at WL,Poly or BC...for DEC.Thanks to WANNABEBELLE,I have 12/6-12/9...no way to get an extra night...ALL booked! I tried,I will try to get another day when I get there.
Jim

 

[lebeau]

I wasn't trying to make a perfect analogy, just make a simple point. And it isn't entirely off, since the industry itself essentially set it up that way, making it virtually impossible for them to make a profit if they don't do well opening weekend.

In that respect, you are correct. They got greedy and created this one-weekend monster. I miss the days when a movie could build up word of mouth. Now that happens on video, but it's not the same.

Disney is practically setting itself up for continued decreases in attendance by not only increasing prices, but not offering anything to justify those increases. How many people are now chosing to stay off-site because the on-site resorts? People can argue the added expense of renting a car or the parking fees, but that is negligible, and based on the WDW prices and off-site prices, it's all off-set by the savings anyway.

There's an interesting debate going on about Disney Resorts at this thread:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=657547

 

[lebeau]

I don't get all of these "Well, it was busy while I was there" posts. What do you think that proves? The only facts that can be known are the ones in Disney's statement which clearly indicate that attendance and earnings were down for WDW and up for every other Disney park.

The question isn't whether or not attendance and earnings were down. They were. End of story.

The question is why? Is this the start of a trend? Has Disney been relying on discounts too long and is that strategy finally starting to bite them? Is it the economy? If so, why don't the other parks seem to be effected the same way. How big a role (if any) did Harry Potter play?

 

[Jrn14]

We just returned from WDW on Sunday. Arrived there the previous Wednesday. We chose a quick trip this time of year planning to be there with low crowds. We were NOT there with lower crowds. The parks were packed, the transportation was packed, dining places packed, lines long and school aged children were numerous. People were buying LOTS of things in the stores. When I took some family members to WDW in March, it was the same way. So, I don't buy the lower earnings, or fewer visitors, or rooms not being filled...nonsense. The parks are full, people are finding a way to "escape reality and hard times" and doing what they want to do anyway. Even if they cannot afford it, they are going to WDW on vacation. Maybe the Disney earnings are being consumed by all the new resort buildings that are going up locally and in Hawaii. Also, the cost for the new Cruise Ships and the International Cruises. Doesn't take an accountant to figure all that out. WDW business is as strong, or stronger than I have ever seen it. We have been going there for for more than 22 years, and there are more park visitors than ever before.

Umm I hate to call you out, but I just returned from a Weekend trip myself and though the parks were by no stretch empty, They certainly were not crowded.. We got an unecessary fast pass for Test Track (Because there was no standby line when we went in), Mission Space and Dinosaur were also walk ons. Five Minutes for Tower of Terror, 10 minute waits for Everest and Kilimanjaro Safari, and about 25 for Rock N Roller Coaster. Toy Story Mania and Soarin were posting long waits, but nothing obscene. The lines at the food court at All Star Music were not long, we ate a Pizzafari practically alone, and DownTown Disney was some what busy, but alot of empty registers... so... that just shows that your experience does not speak for the resort as a whole.

 

[MAF]

I don't get all of these "Well, it was busy while I was there" posts. What do you think that proves? The only facts that can be known are the ones in Disney's statement which clearly indicate that attendance and earnings were down for WDW and up for every other Disney park.

But actual facts prove NOTHING! :lol:

 

[bjlc57]

one the simple laws of economics state , you raise price, you lose sales. how much depends upon the elasticity of your product..

maybe, just maybe, WDW is starting to reach that price point where.. the numbers really start to drop..

we got 40% off our room at the Pop Century last March.. it doesn't seem to be that way this year.. and the place WAS NOT SOLD OUT..

this year, its 25% off.. I don't see it..
plus rates and parking went up again..

the law of deminishing returns is always in effect.. keep raising those prices and the law is going to be proven..

 

[cheezbat]

you know i have to say the parks still are busy, but not as busy as they have been over the years. I've seen it. And Disneyland? Absolutely PACKED each time I went. It looked like the Magic Kingdom of a few years ago!

WDW needs to get back to spending money to bring people in, and to keep them coming back. Over the past two years my trips there have declined significantly thanks to lack of any new additions.