Attendance sinking on the West Coast too?

[Consumer]

I can’t even imagine how devastating that would be to the parks attendance. Probably a 25% attendance drop overnight if they eliminated all the locals who can only afford it due to payment plans, the area around DL is not an affluent area, the payment plan is probably the only option for the vast majority who live within 10 miles of the parks to ever come.

I’d love to see Disney eliminate the Keys program simply to laugh at their arrogance, my guess is they’d suffer a 50%+ attendance drop overnight and they’d have to bring their $160 inflated price tag down to $100 within days just to survive.

Disney will never eliminate the pass program because they can’t survive without it.

Oh no?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Oh no?

It would be nice for guests but Disney would lose billions, they love to complain about APs but there’s a reason it‘s just talk, they cant make the profits they do without them

 

[Professortango1]

I can’t even imagine how devastating that would be to the parks attendance. Probably a 25% attendance drop overnight if they eliminated all the locals who can only afford it due to payment plans, the area around DL is not an affluent area, the payment plan is probably the only option for the vast majority who live within 10 miles of the parks to ever come.

I’d love to see Disney eliminate the Keys program simply to laugh at their arrogance, my guess is they’d suffer a 50%+ attendance drop overnight and they’d have to bring their $160 inflated price tag down to $100 within days just to survive.

Disney will never eliminate the pass program because they can’t survive without it.

The cost of a pass would be the same, so it would be just as affordable as with the payment plan. But some folks would want instant gratification and just buy day tickets rather than saving up.

The AP program is necessary, but the payment plans have made it incredibly unbalanced and they keep raising day ticket prices to compensate for a large portion of their guests paying well below under $100 a visit .

 

[Disney Irish]

The cost of a pass would be the same, so it would be just as affordable as with the payment plan. But some folks would want instant gratification and just buy day tickets rather than saving up.

The AP program is necessary, but the payment plans have made it incredibly unbalanced and they keep raising day ticket prices to compensate for a large portion of their guests paying well below under $100 a visit .

The cost would be the same, but it wouldn't be as attainable (which I think if your whole reason for suggesting this in the first place). I also think you're greatly overestimating the amount of AP/Keys that would just end up buying day tickets.

All you have to ask yourself, if the payment plans weren't profitable then why do all theme parks offer it?

 

[Professortango1]

The cost would be the same, but it wouldn't be as attainable (which I think if your whole reason for suggesting this in the first place). I also think you're greatly overestimating the amount of AP/Keys that would just end up buying day tickets.

All you have to ask yourself, if the payment plans weren't profitable then why do all theme parks offer it?

I do think they are profitable, but I also think they are watering down their parks to a value that is equal to the gym membership pricing.

When gyms were charging a few hundred annually, people would complain a lot more about broken machines or facilities. When they went to monthly, folks are less likely to complain because "I'm only paying $15 a month." Disney's parks are not worth a single day ticket. Not anymore. California Adventure's attendance relies heavily on APs that can park hop because who in their right mind would pay $180 to visit DCA when Disneyland is available?

And Disney is now putting a tiny effort into converting spaces into AP Lounges and exclusives because they know the discount crowd will eat it up and its cheaper and easier than actually improving the guest experience at the park.

For me, Disney has presented me with a huge problem. I love the parks, but they are overpriced for the value if buying a day ticket. But since I have a regular job and other responsibilities, I would need to buy an AP which included weekends and holidays. Which means I would have to buy the top tiers. But since I have a job and responsibilities and enjoy travel and other experiences, I'm unlikely to go to Disney more than 4-5 times a year max. So I basically have to buy a day ticket, which is now so expensive to compensate for the AP's who bleed the park.

What ends up happening is now I just go for free instead of giving them my money. As do many others I know. Disney seems like it actively doesn't want day tickets which is a strange message to give the general public.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Basically every park is priced now to encourage season/annual pass sales, or at least multiday/multipark ticket sales vs the one day ticket of the past. This isn't new. And by encouraging people to visit as much as they can, they're more likely to get those guests to spend money on food/souvenirs/etc, which helps their bottom line.

It was posited on a coaster board I mostly read that Pay One Price, while attractive to the consumer, has been a net negative to parks, but you can't just ask people to go back to the ticket system, because people would feel like they were being ripped off. So you introduce upcharges like FOL passes and other things to get some more dough rolling in. Hence also the overall shift of the industry to incentivize multi-day visit through either ticket deals or annual passes, to get people back to the way things used to be without outright throwing out the current admission model: price things to get people into the gate as often as possible so that you get money from them as much as possible.

 

[Disney Irish]

I do think they are profitable, but I also think they are watering down their parks to a value that is equal to the gym membership pricing.

When gyms were charging a few hundred annually, people would complain a lot more about broken machines or facilities. When they went to monthly, folks are less likely to complain because "I'm only paying $15 a month." Disney's parks are not worth a single day ticket. Not anymore. California Adventure's attendance relies heavily on APs that can park hop because who in their right mind would pay $180 to visit DCA when Disneyland is available?

And Disney is now putting a tiny effort into converting spaces into AP Lounges and exclusives because they know the discount crowd will eat it up and its cheaper and easier than actually improving the guest experience at the park.

For me, Disney has presented me with a huge problem. I love the parks, but they are overpriced for the value if buying a day ticket. But since I have a regular job and other responsibilities, I would need to buy an AP which included weekends and holidays. Which means I would have to buy the top tiers. But since I have a job and responsibilities and enjoy travel and other experiences, I'm unlikely to go to Disney more than 4-5 times a year max. So I basically have to buy a day ticket, which is now so expensive to compensate for the AP's who bleed the park.

What ends up happening is now I just go for free instead of giving them my money. As do many others I know. Disney seems like it actively doesn't want day tickets which is a strange message to give the general public.

Except you started out by saying -

If they took away the payment plan nonsense, they would be making more money with folks buying day tickets

There is no proof of this. This is an assumption based on your own buying habits not the buying habits of all AP/Keys. There is no data that suggests this would actually happen if Disney dropped the payment option, just because that is what you do. Again if it would more profitable to drop the payment option Disney would do it tomorrow.

Also there is plenty of people buying single day tickets to DCA as part of a multi-day trip. Just because there isn't value to you doesn't mean there isn't value to others. For example some may use DCA as the park they go to on their arrival or departure days. And based on rumors Disney knows some don't see it as a full day park and is planning on adding more to the park in the coming years. Now it may not be what you'd personally enjoy but it'll add more to the line-up.

I think we all tend to make assumptions on others park going activities based on our own preferences and experiences. The reality is that every park going experience is unique. The payment option makes the Parks more accessible as it spreads the cost over a year. And while you call it watering down the Parks, to others it makes the Parks accessible in a way they weren't before.

 

[Disney Irish]

Basically every park is priced now to encourage season/annual pass sales, or at least multiday/multipark ticket sales vs the one day ticket of the past. This isn't new. And by encouraging people to visit as much as they can, they're more likely to get those guests to spend money on food/souvenirs/etc, which helps their bottom line.

It was posited on a coaster board I mostly read that Pay One Price, while attractive to the consumer, has been a net negative to parks, but you can't just ask people to go back to the ticket system, because people would feel like they were being ripped off. So you introduce upcharges like FOL passes and other things to get some more dough rolling in. Hence also the overall shift of the industry to incentivize multi-day visit through either ticket deals or annual passes, to get people back to the way things used to be without outright throwing out the current admission model: price things to get people into the gate as often as possible so that you get money from them as much as possible.

Exactly, the idea that the AP/Keys is going away or will eliminate the payment option is silly. All amusement/theme parks in the world offer this, its an industry wide thing and not going away. They get money from you monthly whether you go or not. Of course they hope you don't go as often as the pass allows, but every time you enter the gates for "free" they know they get more money from you. And they use things like blockout days and reservations to control how many actually can be in the parks at one time. Its all to extract more money from you. Which is why this idea of "leaving money on the table" by having the payment option is silly, its just not reality.

 

[CaptinEO]

I feel during Christmas and Halloween season the high prices work out fine and the parks have plenty of crowds. Summer it's been slow since at least 2018. 2019 will always be the best.

Surprised they don't reopen some blocked days to lower tier APs, which they've done in the past.

 

[Figments Friend]

I skipped because I hate Pixar Fest that much.

( High fives fellow Pixar ‘hater’ )



-

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disneyland passholders are there because they have the passes. That’s their culture

If they eliminated them…the drop in attendance would put the place in the red overnight

It wouldn’t be people buying day tickets instead

That kind of gutless stupidity is reserved for Florida

Disney messes with the California market at their peril.

 

[Disney Irish]

Disneyland passholders are there because they have the passes. That’s their culture

If they eliminated them…the drop in attendance would put the place in the red overnight

It wouldn’t be people buying day tickets instead

That kind of gutless stupidity is reserved for Florida

Disney messes with the California market at their peril.

Disney isn't going to mess with the AP/Keys too much in Anaheim, despite some insistence that Disney would make more money if they eliminated them completely or get rid of the payment plan option.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

For me, Disney has presented me with a huge problem. I love the parks, but they are overpriced for the value if buying a day ticket. But since I have a regular job and other responsibilities, I would need to buy an AP which included weekends and holidays. Which means I would have to buy the top tiers. But since I have a job and responsibilities and enjoy travel and other experiences, I'm unlikely to go to Disney more than 4-5 times a year max. So I basically have to buy a day ticket, which is now so expensive to compensate for the AP's who bleed the park.

We’re in the same position, we chose not to renew our passes last year because we feel Genie has drastically decreased the experience (and APs have become prohibitively expensive if you can’t go every month), after a few months we priced out our first non-AP weekend and realized tickets alone would be nearly $800 for just the 2 of us, suddenly $2400 for the year sounded reasonable. Unfortunately we’ve regretted that decision because we still haven’t enjoyed the parks nearly as much as we used to.

We have no intention on renewing our passes again, we aren’t sure if that means we’ll just pay day prices once or twice a year or just stop going entirely, as people who’ve had APs for over a decade and averaged 8 or 9 weekend trips a year in the parks it’s hard to imagine not going to DL but it’s also hard to justify the current cost for what you get.

Even at our “discounted” AP admission rate we were averaging $1000 a weekend on food, drink, souvenirs, etc… even if we pay the higher day ticket price Disney will still lose about $8000 a year from us because we’ll be going one or two weekends a year instead of 8 or 9 times, there’s no way they’ll make more money in the long run by turning frequent AP trips into rare full price trips.

For us DL is worth $100 a day, it’s not worth $150 though, it’s definitely not worth the $190 peak price they charge some days now, especially since you have to spend more for LL just to make it somewhat enjoyable now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I do think they are profitable, but I also think they are watering down their parks to a value that is equal to the gym membership pricing.

When gyms were charging a few hundred annually, people would complain a lot more about broken machines or facilities. When they went to monthly, folks are less likely to complain because "I'm only paying $15 a month." Disney's parks are not worth a single day ticket. Not anymore. California Adventure's attendance relies heavily on APs that can park hop because who in their right mind would pay $180 to visit DCA when Disneyland is available?

And Disney is now putting a tiny effort into converting spaces into AP Lounges and exclusives because they know the discount crowd will eat it up and its cheaper and easier than actually improving the guest experience at the park.

For me, Disney has presented me with a huge problem. I love the parks, but they are overpriced for the value if buying a day ticket. But since I have a regular job and other responsibilities, I would need to buy an AP which included weekends and holidays. Which means I would have to buy the top tiers. But since I have a job and responsibilities and enjoy travel and other experiences, I'm unlikely to go to Disney more than 4-5 times a year max. So I basically have to buy a day ticket, which is now so expensive to compensate for the AP's who bleed the park.

What ends up happening is now I just go for free instead of giving them my money. As do many others I know. Disney seems like it actively doesn't want day tickets which is a strange message to give the general public.

We’re in the same position, we chose not to renew our passes last year because we feel Genie has drastically decreased the experience (and APs have become prohibitively expensive if you can’t go every month), after a few months we priced out our first non-AP weekend and realized tickets alone would be nearly $800 for just the 2 of us, suddenly $2400 for the year sounded reasonable. Unfortunately we’ve regretted that decision because we still haven’t enjoyed the parks nearly as much as we used to.

We have no intention on renewing our passes again, we aren’t sure if that means we’ll just pay day prices once or twice a year or just stop going entirely, as people who’ve had APs for over a decade and averaged 8 or 9 weekend trips a year in the parks it’s hard to imagine not going to DL but it’s also hard to justify the current cost for what you get.

Even at our “discounted” AP admission rate we were averaging $1000 a weekend on food, drink, souvenirs, etc… even if we pay the higher day ticket price Disney will still lose about $8000 a year from us because we’ll be going one or two weekends a year instead of 8 or 9 times, there’s no way they’ll make more money in the long run by turning frequent AP trips into rare full price trips.

For us DL is worth $100 a day, it’s not worth $150 though, it’s definitely not worth the $190 peak price they charge some days now, especially since you have to spend more for LL just to make it somewhat enjoyable now.

If you’re Disney…and you cared (which they don’t)…what would be alarming is how many obviously longterm, dedicated fans are gravitating toward this stance and flooding the zone now

There’s an ugly rumor June attendance was down 25% in Orlando…and hotel bookings more than that

Trouble

 

[Ismael Flores]

Yes the crowds really are so light lately. And you’d think with this major discount for summer tickets crowds would pick up, but I really think Disney has severely damaged their reputation with the drastic ticket prices last few years.


Also interesting to note there stock price is down almost 25% since they announced Peltz won’t be joining the board, there stock going back down….

The next earnings call will not be good.

Actually the stock went up when Peltz lost the bid for the board. From what i have read the stock went down when Disney released the breakdown for the announced investments for parks and resort came out. The huge investment number was assumed to be going mostly for theme park investment but the break down showed that a huge amount is going for tech development and enhancements and another large amount is going to expand the cruise line business. With theme parks driving the company at the moment a much larger percentage going to parks was more enticing for wall street. There is belief that once the streaming service becomes profitable and wall street actually sees movement in expansion that the stock will stabilize and possible gain quite a bit. This is coming from Forbes and analyst which are rating the stock a strong buy especially now that it dipped way below the price target

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Actually the stock went up when Peltz lost the bid for the board. From what i have read the stock went down when Disney released the breakdown for the announced investments for parks and resort came out. The huge investment number was assumed to be going mostly for theme park investment but the break down showed that a huge amount is going for tech development and enhancements and another large amount is going to expand the cruise line business. With theme parks driving the company at the moment a much larger percentage going to parks was more enticing for wall street. There is belief that once the streaming service becomes profitable and wall street actually sees movement in expansion that the stock will stabilize and possible gain quite a bit. This is coming from Forbes and analyst which are rating the stock a strong buy especially now that it dipped way below the price target

That’s straight from the PR office

It’s been underperforming for quite some time

Their trajectory sucks

 

[Disney Irish]

It’s been underperforming for quite some time

Unfortunately so have a lot of the studio stocks this year.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Unfortunately so have a lot of the studio stocks this year.

Which means the problem might not be so easily Dismissed to “fake” worry over Disney plus.

Since there’s really no profit in streaming

 

[Disney Irish]

Which means the problem might not be so easily Dismissed to “fake” worry over Disney plus.

Since there’s really no profit in streaming

Agreed, its an overall issue with the shift going on with Hollywood.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Agreed, its an overall issue with the shift going on with Hollywood.

Yes…

I think analysts also see Disneys mistakes in marketing and pricing tactics

The golden goose (parks) is not valuable if you kill it.
We were talking about this around the boards today…they have major attendance issues now and in the forecasts…price increases to mask it is gonna run out of runway.