Are we to blame for WDW cutbacks?

[Krack]

If this guy truly believes that the powers that be at WDW base their decisions on a bunch of internet posters than maybe he needs his head examined.

See, here's the problem with that logic ... when Disneyland was falling apart, this guy (Lutz) more or less spearheaded an assault on Anaheim management (relentlessly pointing out everywhere they were screwing up) and while it may not have singlehandedly affected change - there is no question in my mind it played a part. Disneyland is better because of Lutz. What he's saying is "You could do it in Orlando, too. When you finally get fed up, you will. You're obviously not there yet."

 

[rsoxguy]

I would agree that we are way down on the depth chart but I still can not wrap my head around Al's reasoning. You would think that Disney would either completely ignore the fanboys or take some heed to what they are saying and try to please them. The way Al makes it sound Disney is reading a comment on a forum like "Why did we get short changed on PotC?" and responding with "Oh so you don't like PotC just wait to you see what we cut out of the space mountain refurb! You will be sorry then!". I just have a hard time buying into an entire division of a multi billion dollar company could behave like a scorned teenage girl.

Well stated :lol:. I agree.

 

[DisneyNut2007]

Interesting statements that run along the line of what I am trying to say. I do believe that all things are weighed in the balance at Disney, but I have a hard time believing that forums are the larger portion of their resources.

Absolutely. Krack-head is definetely wrong.

If anyone is to blame, it should be Lutz, Kevin Yee and all their follow Disney-hating morons (who are HIGHLY overrated and get way too much credit), because their dirty mouths and overly-negative and nihilistic attitudes give us Disney-lovers a bad name and only continue to kill any chances of the company taking us seriously.

Those haters really truly do need to think before they talk and learn to be more constructive and tasteful in their criticisms, if they really want the company to listen to them.

 

[tigsmom]

See, here's the problem with that logic ... when Disneyland was falling apart, this guy (Lutz) more or less spearheaded an assault on Anaheim management (relentlessly pointing out everywhere they were screwing up) and while it may not have singlehandedly affected change - there is no question in my mind it played a part. Disneyland is better because of Lutz.

Was he there, seeing all that WAS wrong and fixed it or did he read the internet and then fix what everyone was complaining about?

My point was that those in charge will do what needs to be done and not base their decisions on a bunch of fans complaining on some internet fan sites. And how can complaints about what is wrong justify cutbacks? Wouldn't you invest more to make the fans happy? Happy fans = more $$$

I see so many threads like "Oh the lightbulbs are out on such and such, Disney doesn't care anymore" and so on...bulbs blow out that's life; it doesn't mean that nobody cares anymore or the place is going to hell.

 

[Master Yoda]

See, here's the problem with that logic ... when Disneyland was falling apart, this guy (Lutz) more or less spearheaded an assault on Anaheim management (relentlessly pointing out everywhere they were screwing up) and while it may not have singlehandedly affected change - there is no question in my mind it played a part. Disneyland is better because of Lutz. What he's saying is "You could do it in Orlando, too. When you finally get fed up, you will. You're obviously not there yet."

Now it is starting to make a little more sense. Do you think he is saying that we are the problem because we complain but we still show up at the park?

 

[tigsmom]

Now it is starting to make a little more sense. Do you think he is saying that we are the problem because we complain but we still show up at the park?

maybe you do :lol:

Really, there are many more people who continue to show up than are fanboy posters, no?

 

[Lucky]

If anyone caught Al Lutz's "Ask A Columnist" today you undoubtedly noticed his following quote:

"...the rabid Walt Disney World fan boys who attack anything online they perceive as negative about the resort (to the sheer delight of the management there, whose use these posts to justify further cutbacks) along with the many WDW-focused sites that delete critiques of any kind, it practically insures that the East Coast complex will only continue to fall further behind quality-wise. They get the parks they deserve out there I guess..."

I

I think some people are misinterpreting this statement. Lutz is saying the rabid fan boys attack anything online they perceive as negative [meaning, I think, posts that are critical of WDW] and that many sites even delete critiques of WDW. And when criticisms of WDW are censored - not on this site of course - or shouted down by hordes of Disney apologists, there's less pressure on WDW to maintain or improve quality.

Personally I find many of the criticisms overly harsh. But, as I think Lutz is saying, a certain amount of it can serve a useful purpose.

 

[Lucky]

See, here's the problem with that logic ... when Disneyland was falling apart, this guy (Lutz) more or less spearheaded an assault on Anaheim management (relentlessly pointing out everywhere they were screwing up) and while it may not have singlehandedly affected change - there is no question in my mind it played a part. Disneyland is better because of Lutz. What he's saying is "You could do it in Orlando, too. When you finally get fed up, you will. You're obviously not there yet."

Exactly. This is pretty much the opposite of the way some people had been interpreting Lutz.

 

[Master Yoda]

maybe you do :lol:

Really, there are many more people who continue to show up than are fanboy posters, no?

Quite a few more. I doubt we make up even a percentage point of WDW annual attendance

I think people are misinterpreting this statement. Lutz is saying the rabid fan boys attack anything online they perceive as negative [meaning, I think, posts that are critical of WDW] and that many sites even delete critiques of WDW. And when criticisms of WDW are censored - not on this site of course - or shouted down by hordes of Disney apologists, there's less pressure on WDW to maintain or improve quality.

Personally I find many of the criticisms overly harsh. But, as I think Lutz is saying, a certain amount of it can serve a useful purpose.

Al really needs to make a quick edit and explain what he means. The main focus of an article should not be this ambiguous.

 

[DisneyNut2007]

I wish someone like Steve or Enderikari would reply to this thread immediately.

 

[slappy magoo]

I'm not saying this is the way it ought to be, but just how I think it currently is.

I know, there are people who go to Anaheim and never step foot off of Disney property. And there are people who go to WDW and still spend plenty of time off-site. But WDW is practically a city in and of itself. As a result there's a perception amongst Disney brass that they've got to invest more TLC in Anaheim in order to keep people coming and staying, whereas in Orlando, the relatively small financial investment that is Disney's Magical Express does most of the heavy lifting.

After all, in Anaheim, the footprint of DL is smaller, it's right in the thick of things, there are only three onsite hotels, only 2 parks. It's much more a PART of people's vacations, as opposed to WDW which can consume entire vacations (plus make it seem more cost-effective to make the trip longer, or come back more often). It's not necessary in WDW to make you WANT to stay, just make it seem more COST-EFFECTIVE to stay, and more difficult to leave.

Good proof of this: If you go to the citypass website, Disneyland parks are a big part of the southern California Citypass, along Universal Studios, Sea World and other parks. Whereas the comparable Orlando Flexticket includes Uni Parks and Sea World Parks. Wet 'n Wild. Maybe Busch Gardens. But No Disney World. Disney understands they're a part of a larger vacation on the West, but on the East, they can easily be the whole thing.

And what's frustrating to the repeat customer is how little is invested in the new and exciting. You're saving a few hundred dollars on a rental car, or you're not spending that money on Mears shuttles anymore, and the longer a ticket you buy, the more cost-effective it seems, to the point where it's pocket change to upgrade from a 7 day to 8 day/9 day/10 day ticket. In exchange, you're in a park that, until they announced FLE, was becoming kinda stagnant. Heck, sometimes it seemed like it ws de-evolving, what with the lack of TLC at DisneyQuest, losing Pleasure Island, plans for a new shopping center/hotel/apartment/timeshare complex but not new parks or expansions into MORE parks for those vacationers to go to once they get there.

I don't see the center holding at WDW the way they currently develop their plans. It seems people are balking at what they see as a declining experience, despite prices going up faster than rates of inflation - followed by "incredible deals" that make you feel like you're saving tons of dough, not unlike department stores that mark items up 500%, then offer a half-off sale and still make out like bandits. Sire, they could just mark stuff up 250% and still make out like bandits. But they don't. Because some people out there, not looking or aware or caring for those special deals, will pay the 500% markup in the first place.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I don't think I really buy Al's reasoning. It's hard for me to believe that comments from a small group of Disneyphiles really alter Disney company policy or plans in any way. Otherwise, the Yeti would be fixed by now!

But if the Disney suits DO get discouraged from fan complaints, then fie on them. More evidence that things have changed for the worst since Walt's day. Walt believed that if things in the parks are built well and plussed beyond customer expectation, then that brings out the best in people (the opposite of which, he believed, would lead to customer apathy and even vandalism). The suits should read our comments as evidence that WE CARE. And that we do appreciate their efforts to try to please us - I've done my share of griping, but I've also lavished praise on elements in the parks that are just plain amazing. And even with the broken yeti and infestations of things like the Muppets in the parks, which I don't approve of, I'd still visit WDW in a red hot minute. For my part, it's because WDW does still have a lot of offer. It's no big chore for me to avoid the Muppet attraction, for instance, and hang around the Tower of Terror or Rock'n'Roller Coaster instead, or just enjoy the truly wonderful ambiance the Imagineers created in DHS. It's a triumph IMO, and that's why DHS is my favorite WDW park. I just want MORE of that artistry in the rest of the park, and better upkeep and more attention to Walt's philosophy when the parks get refurbed or expanded upon. They and we deserve nothing less.

I have to say, though, that Universal's Harry Potter attraction trumps anything Disney has done lately. It's like the artisans behind it take Walt's philosophy more seriously than the Disney suits do, and that's a bummer. It's my continuing admiration and affection for Walt that keeps me hopeful for better things for WDW; otherwise my allegiance could very well swing to Universal when it comes to spending my time and money in theme parks. Hopefully the FLE will bowl me over and bring sad, neglected, tiny Fantasyland into full flower. I have my fingers crossed...

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Al Lutz is a person with an axe to grind against Disney, for him to say Disney enjoys his endless rants is nothing more for him to justify his worthless spew.

Disney makes decisions about their business by how they can improve it, and how CHEAP they can get it done, like any profitable business in the world, it has nothing to do with fanboys or internet posters. To think that is absurd. Like Al Lutz.



Jimmy Thick- I better fix my hair, Disney is watching [/sarc]

 

[fosse76]

I'm not saying this is the way it ought to be, but just how I think it currently is.

I know, there are people who go to Anaheim and never step foot off of Disney property. And there are people who go to WDW and still spend plenty of time off-site. But WDW is practically a city in and of itself. As a result there's a perception amongst Disney brass that they've got to invest more TLC in Anaheim in order to keep people coming and staying, whereas in Orlando, the relatively small financial investment that is Disney's Magical Express does most of the heavy lifting.

After all, in Anaheim, the footprint of DL is smaller, it's right in the thick of things, there are only three onsite hotels, only 2 parks. It's much more a PART of people's vacations, as opposed to WDW which can consume entire vacations (plus make it seem more cost-effective to make the trip longer, or come back more often). It's not necessary in WDW to make you WANT to stay, just make it seem more COST-EFFECTIVE to stay, and more difficult to leave.

Good proof of this: If you go to the citypass website, Disneyland parks are a big part of the southern California Citypass, along Universal Studios, Sea World and other parks. Whereas the comparable Orlando Flexticket includes Uni Parks and Sea World Parks. Wet 'n Wild. Maybe Busch Gardens. But No Disney World. Disney understands they're a part of a larger vacation on the West, but on the East, they can easily be the whole thing.

Exactly. But also, Southern California has a lot more to offer than Orlando (even the entire state of Florida), so people who plan to visit LA don't restrict themselves to just Anaheim. There's really nothing else to Orlando than Disney World, as a majority of vacationers are there for that, and will maybe take day or two to explore the other parks. Disneyland MUST cater to locals and offer them incentive to return. WDW doesn't need that incentive.

But also, I think people's reading comprehension skills are diminished, where people no longer seem to be able to read between the lines. What he was saying is that TDO isn't doing much simply because people are going to B***h and moan about it anyway. So why bother? If they don't do something, people complain. If they do add something new, or pluss something, they'll complain. If they are going to complain, it's cheaper to complain about not building something then it is to hear complaints about something that cost hundreds of millions of dollars. And as it is the most visited theme park in the country, they currently have no incentive to really do anything.

 

[whylightbulb]

I would agree that we are way down on the depth chart but I still can not wrap my head around Al's reasoning. You would think that Disney would either completely ignore the fanboys or take some heed to what they are saying and try to please them. The way Al makes it sound Disney is reading a comment on a forum like "Why did we get short changed on PotC?" and responding with "Oh so you don't like PotC just wait to you see what we cut out of the space mountain refurb! You will be sorry then!". I just have a hard time buying into an entire division of a multi billion dollar company could behave like a scorned teenage girl.

No what he is saying is that many on these forums are defending TDO's actions and therefore giving them license to continue their campaign of mediocrity. After all if the little crumbs they are providing seem to appease the public why would they need to do any more?

 

[devoy1701]

No what he is saying is that many on these forums are defending TDO's actions and therefore giving them license to continue their campaign of mediocrity. After all if the little crumbs they are providing seem to appease the public why would they need to do any more?

I don't think many of us are defending TDO's actions here... if anything we seem to complain about anything they do.

 

[Krack]

I don't think many of us are defending TDO's actions here... if anything we seem to complain about anything they do.

For every two complaint posts on here, there's at least one "Well, I like it. So go away, Disney doesn't need you anyway!" post. That's what he's talking about. With Anaheim, it got to the point where nobody could defend them anymore - it was overwhelming discontent among the fan community (particularly APers).

 

[devoy1701]

For every two complaint posts on here, there's at least one "Well, I like it. So go away, Disney doesn't need you anyway!" post. That's what he's talking about. With Anaheim, it got to the point where nobody could defend them anymore - it was overwhelming discontent among the fan community (particularly APers).

gotcha...

 

[DisneyNut2007]

Exactly. But also, Southern California has a lot more to offer than Orlando (even the entire state of Florida), so people who plan to visit LA don't restrict themselves to just Anaheim. There's really nothing else to Orlando than Disney World, as a majority of vacationers are there for that, and will maybe take day or two to explore the other parks. Disneyland MUST cater to locals and offer them incentive to return. WDW doesn't need that incentive.

But also, I think people's reading comprehension skills are diminished, where people no longer seem to be able to read between the lines. What he was saying is that TDO isn't doing much simply because people are going to B***h and moan about it anyway. So why bother? If they don't do something, people complain. If they do add something new, or pluss something, they'll complain. If they are going to complain, it's cheaper to complain about not building something then it is to hear complaints about something that cost hundreds of millions of dollars. And as it is the most visited theme park in the country, they currently have no incentive to really do anything.

You, sir, are once again completely wrong!

 

[MarkTwain]

Personally I think it all comes down to incentive. What incentive does WDW have to invest more in their parks? MK is the most visited them park in the world and WDW holds the same rank as a vacation destination. With numbers like that it is easy for management to cut everything to the bone and just do basic maintenance and rake in the cash. The best thing that could ever happen to WDW would be for DL and DCA to take over the #1 and #2 spots on the top ten theme parks attendance list.

I agree with this. Until WDW starts seeing some serious competition and is no longer topping the list of most-heavily-attended theme parks in the world, they are not going to feel the need to invest more in their parks.

On the other hand, I think there might be some truth to what Al is saying. But I don't think you'll find many of those apologists here... as others have said, this is reasonably honest forum, very much the "watchdog" of WDW the way MiceAge/MiceChat was for Disneyland. I think the site that Al might be referring to is the largest Disney forum in the world, aka the one with the bouncing Goofy heads in all the signatures... :lookaroun