Well, here I thought it was going to be traditionally animated! Just as a side note to Philharmagic, I was pondering to myself what Mickey might look like in CGI, and then it came to me. If you happened to be wondering the same thing, just remember the ending of MuppetVision 3D!
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Are we being cheated?
- Thread starter Duane
- Start date
Well, here I thought it was going to be traditionally animated! Just as a side note to Philharmagic, I was pondering to myself what Mickey might look like in CGI, and then it came to me. If you happened to be wondering the same thing, just remember the ending of MuppetVision 3D!
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
He certainly looks different in 3D, but I think it looks kewl! This attraction should be good given the time it is getting for construction and its healthy budget. I'm glad Mickey will be getting a home in the Magic Kingdom...and I was kinda wondering why this was the only park w/o a 3D attraction, anyway...
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Well, I don’t remember anything specific about the costs or financial situation with the studios in Paris (if Steve is reading, I’m sure he can clear this one up). As for Hong Kong, Disney is getting off cheap. Disney is putting about $314 million in U.S. dollars into the project while Hong Kong’s government will be putting about $2.9 Billion U.S. dollars into it.
Mr. P, good God how do you find the time to write these posts? Those two might be the longest posts I have ever read here. 
>>>Epcot saw record numbers for the 1999/2000 season because it was the center of the Millennium Celebration<<<
No, it didn't. Epcot had 10.6 million guests in 2000, up from 10.1 million in 1999. Epcot's record year was during the 25 Years Celebration, when 11.8 million guests walked through the turnstiles. In 2001 Epcot only had 9 million visitors, which is far below the park's average of around 10 million. That is a serious problem for the park. It doesn't help that Epcot is also leading the pack in terms of attendance loss this year either.
>>>I don’t think that the 100 year celebration has had anywhere near the impact on MGM<<<
All it has done is help MGM cut it's losses, if it even that much (there are "rumors" that the 100 Years Celebration may have not had any effect on attendance this year at all).
>>>Even with the (expected) big hit that Epcot’s numbers took (which artificially brought the average for all of WDW down – something that many people referencing those numbers tend to omit either on purpose or by accident)<<<
No, it didn't. The MK was down by 700,000, MGM down by 600,000, and AK down by 600,000.
>>>Universal is in really big trouble when you look at the attendance drop for their flagship park<<<
Actually, Universal's marketing tends to promote IOA as their flagship park now. OTH, you're still right about the Studio's drop off in attendance. That is mainly because IOA has been cannibalizing it for the past several years (and it is hoped that with the opening of the Royal Pacific the resort as a whole will help boost attendance), and also the fact that they failed to tell anybody about MIB when it opened in 2000 (poor marketing is not a surprise at Universal. IOA's original commercials made the park look like a drug fantasy).
>>>they don’t seem as concerned with AK figures as everyone else seems to think they should be<<<
That maybe because Burbank has a bigger fish to fry right now (DCA).
>>>one or two particularly bad years with factors totally out of Disney’s control thrown in is not a good marker<<<
The problem is that there aren't too many factors left. The economy is stabilizing, the effects of 9/11 have worn off, and the competition is reporting gains. Maybe WDW's is having a bad year due to the percieved loss of value in a trip there (I am seeing more and more conversations between "average visitors" that include "WDW isn't as nice as it used to be" or "They closed my favorite ride down and replaced it with a piece of crap).
>>>Do you consider Space Ranger Spin to be filler? It’s got Fast Pass and frequently has waits that rival that of Space Mountain.<<<
I consider it to be more a D-ticket. Disney also promotes it as such.
>>>From what I understand Philharmagic is supposed to carry some next generation interactive effects<<<
Nope, nothing new in Philarmagic. They are learning how to use older effects more efficiently (and thankfully not for shock value this go around), but there won't be anything ground breaking in Philharmagic, other than the CGI film itself.
>>>The T-gazillion thing comes out at the audience which suggests you are part of the show but I don’t recall them explaining how the whole theater managed to get inside the building and in the future for such a thing to happen<<<
If I remember right, the storyline is that once the characters are sent into the future your are basically watching it from third person, no audience interactivity at all. How we are supposed to see the future from a theater screen is beyond me...
>>>I don’t think the thing was filmed correctly for the 3D medium<<<
I agree. The 3D is more a cheap enhancement than the centerpiece, but that is okay. T2 has much more repeatibility as an actual film rather that an audience-centric show. That is the problem I have with Disney's newer 3D films (Captain EO was much more superior as a whole IMO). Once you've seen them once, the shock value wears off and you have little reason to go back other than to see how the audience reacts to the film. At WDW, this is not much a problem yet due to more varied crowd that visits their parks, but at DLR this is a huge problem. Attendance at HISTA in Disneyland has fallen off dramatically since it opened in 1998.
>>>Epcot saw record numbers for the 1999/2000 season because it was the center of the Millennium Celebration<<<
No, it didn't. Epcot had 10.6 million guests in 2000, up from 10.1 million in 1999. Epcot's record year was during the 25 Years Celebration, when 11.8 million guests walked through the turnstiles. In 2001 Epcot only had 9 million visitors, which is far below the park's average of around 10 million. That is a serious problem for the park. It doesn't help that Epcot is also leading the pack in terms of attendance loss this year either.
>>>I don’t think that the 100 year celebration has had anywhere near the impact on MGM<<<
All it has done is help MGM cut it's losses, if it even that much (there are "rumors" that the 100 Years Celebration may have not had any effect on attendance this year at all).
>>>Even with the (expected) big hit that Epcot’s numbers took (which artificially brought the average for all of WDW down – something that many people referencing those numbers tend to omit either on purpose or by accident)<<<
No, it didn't. The MK was down by 700,000, MGM down by 600,000, and AK down by 600,000.
>>>Universal is in really big trouble when you look at the attendance drop for their flagship park<<<
Actually, Universal's marketing tends to promote IOA as their flagship park now. OTH, you're still right about the Studio's drop off in attendance. That is mainly because IOA has been cannibalizing it for the past several years (and it is hoped that with the opening of the Royal Pacific the resort as a whole will help boost attendance), and also the fact that they failed to tell anybody about MIB when it opened in 2000 (poor marketing is not a surprise at Universal. IOA's original commercials made the park look like a drug fantasy).
>>>they don’t seem as concerned with AK figures as everyone else seems to think they should be<<<
That maybe because Burbank has a bigger fish to fry right now (DCA).
>>>one or two particularly bad years with factors totally out of Disney’s control thrown in is not a good marker<<<
The problem is that there aren't too many factors left. The economy is stabilizing, the effects of 9/11 have worn off, and the competition is reporting gains. Maybe WDW's is having a bad year due to the percieved loss of value in a trip there (I am seeing more and more conversations between "average visitors" that include "WDW isn't as nice as it used to be" or "They closed my favorite ride down and replaced it with a piece of crap).
>>>Do you consider Space Ranger Spin to be filler? It’s got Fast Pass and frequently has waits that rival that of Space Mountain.<<<
I consider it to be more a D-ticket. Disney also promotes it as such.
>>>From what I understand Philharmagic is supposed to carry some next generation interactive effects<<<
Nope, nothing new in Philarmagic. They are learning how to use older effects more efficiently (and thankfully not for shock value this go around), but there won't be anything ground breaking in Philharmagic, other than the CGI film itself.
>>>The T-gazillion thing comes out at the audience which suggests you are part of the show but I don’t recall them explaining how the whole theater managed to get inside the building and in the future for such a thing to happen<<<
If I remember right, the storyline is that once the characters are sent into the future your are basically watching it from third person, no audience interactivity at all. How we are supposed to see the future from a theater screen is beyond me...
>>>I don’t think the thing was filmed correctly for the 3D medium<<<
I agree. The 3D is more a cheap enhancement than the centerpiece, but that is okay. T2 has much more repeatibility as an actual film rather that an audience-centric show. That is the problem I have with Disney's newer 3D films (Captain EO was much more superior as a whole IMO). Once you've seen them once, the shock value wears off and you have little reason to go back other than to see how the audience reacts to the film. At WDW, this is not much a problem yet due to more varied crowd that visits their parks, but at DLR this is a huge problem. Attendance at HISTA in Disneyland has fallen off dramatically since it opened in 1998.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by pheneix
Mr. P, good God how do you find the time to write these posts? Those two might be the longest posts I have ever read here.
>>>Epcot saw record numbers for the 1999/2000 season because it was the center of the Millennium Celebration<<<
No, it didn't. Epcot had 10.6 million guests in 2000, up from 10.1 million in 1999. Epcot's record year was during the 25 Years Celebration, when 11.8 million guests walked through the turnstiles. In 2001 Epcot only had 9 million visitors, which is far below the park's average of around 10 million. That is a serious problem for the park. It doesn't help that Epcot is also leading the pack in terms of attendance loss this year either.
>>>I don’t think that the 100 year celebration has had anywhere near the impact on MGM<<<
All it has done is help MGM cut it's losses, if it even that much (there are "rumors" that the 100 Years Celebration may have not had any effect on attendance this year at all).
>>>Even with the (expected) big hit that Epcot’s numbers took (which artificially brought the average for all of WDW down – something that many people referencing those numbers tend to omit either on purpose or by accident)<<<
No, it didn't. The MK was down by 700,000, MGM down by 600,000, and AK down by 600,000.
>>>Universal is in really big trouble when you look at the attendance drop for their flagship park<<<
Actually, Universal's marketing tends to promote IOA as their flagship park now. OTH, you're still right about the Studio's drop off in attendance. That is mainly because IOA has been cannibalizing it for the past several years (and it is hoped that with the opening of the Royal Pacific the resort as a whole will help boost attendance), and also the fact that they failed to tell anybody about MIB when it opened in 2000 (poor marketing is not a surprise at Universal. IOA's original commercials made the park look like a drug fantasy).
>>>they don’t seem as concerned with AK figures as everyone else seems to think they should be<<<
That maybe because Burbank has a bigger fish to fry right now (DCA).
>>>one or two particularly bad years with factors totally out of Disney’s control thrown in is not a good marker<<<
The problem is that there aren't too many factors left. The economy is stabilizing, the effects of 9/11 have worn off, and the competition is reporting gains. Maybe WDW's is having a bad year due to the percieved loss of value in a trip there (I am seeing more and more conversations between "average visitors" that include "WDW isn't as nice as it used to be" or "They closed my favorite ride down and replaced it with a piece of crap).
>>>Do you consider Space Ranger Spin to be filler? It’s got Fast Pass and frequently has waits that rival that of Space Mountain.<<<
I consider it to be more a D-ticket. Disney also promotes it as such.
>>>From what I understand Philharmagic is supposed to carry some next generation interactive effects<<<
Nope, nothing new in Philarmagic. They are learning how to use older effects more efficiently (and thankfully not for shock value this go around), but there won't be anything ground breaking in Philharmagic, other than the CGI film itself.
>>>The T-gazillion thing comes out at the audience which suggests you are part of the show but I don’t recall them explaining how the whole theater managed to get inside the building and in the future for such a thing to happen<<<
If I remember right, the storyline is that once the characters are sent into the future your are basically watching it from third person, no audience interactivity at all. How we are supposed to see the future from a theater screen is beyond me...
>>>I don’t think the thing was filmed correctly for the 3D medium<<<
I agree. The 3D is more a cheap enhancement than the centerpiece, but that is okay. T2 has much more repeatibility as an actual film rather that an audience-centric show. That is the problem I have with Disney's newer 3D films (Captain EO was much more superior as a whole IMO). Once you've seen them once, the shock value wears off and you have little reason to go back other than to see how the audience reacts to the film. At WDW, this is not much a problem yet due to more varied crowd that visits their parks, but at DLR this is a huge problem. Attendance at HISTA in Disneyland has fallen off dramatically since it opened in 1998.
Well, it seems I exaggerated the numbers for Epcot a bit. That’s my mistake and I totally admit to it but they still saw a 5% increase in attendance (the highest in all of WDW) at a time when Universal Studios attendance was considered flat… That still gives them room to go down… I still say, I’ll continue this discussion in about five years after things go up and down a time or two more.
Not too many factors left? Hmm.. I guess somebody needs to talk to my employer because they have yet to put the percentage scale that they lowered last year for merit raises back to where it was before… This kind of thing still leaves me in a recession.
and is still a factor in my spending… As far as the “they closed my favorite ride” discussion… I’ve been hearing that one since 2000 leagues turned up dry. Anytime they close ANYTHING they are going to hear that… As far as “average visitors” commenting about it not being as nice as it used to be, I can’t really comment. I don’t hear this kind of conversation when in the parks and I’ve yet to find much in the way of average visitors who post with any regularity on a Disney message board.Nothing new in Philarmagic? Hmm, does this mean you have concrete fact on what the working of this attraction consists of?.. Or are you basing this on the same rumors that can be found in the vast series of message boards all over the internet?..
I can certainly understand what you are saying about the shock value thing and I don’t think it’s a foreseeable problem for WDW… I don’t do these attractions all that often because I am local (I think ITTBAB is more re-doable than HISTA though) but if I only went once a year, these are attractions that I would probably do on every visit. I can see why it could be a problem in California.
disneyisbest
New Member
pheniex, I just read your profile and now I know why you want to continually on this board
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Actually, PhilharMagic is supposed to have the highest level of guest interaction that any of the 3Ds have, and it is supposed to also have the greatest technology. It's easy for me to see how this would be the case--just follow the line of interactive theatre experiences we've seen...
Muppetvision 3D--minimal in theatre effects by today's standards, but it was wowing guests when it opened, with its water and bubble effects
Honey I Shrunk the Audience--Guests absolutely LOVED this attraction when it first opened (that has trailed off, of course--this attraction is showing its age) because it was the first 3D to introduce a motion-based floor and both in-theatre and in-chair effects, which pulled guests into the action
The ExtraTERRORestrial Alien Encounter--this screamer began to introduce a bit more life-like effects in the chairs--with its hot, sweaty breath effect, the tongue, and the spitting
It's Tough to Be a Bug!--the best interactive show yet, audiences cannot get enough of its usage of Audio-Animatronics, in theatre smoke and water effects, and even more intense in chair effects, including the use of scent (the stinger FREAKED ME OUT).
Notice that as Disney goes along, they pick the best effects from past shows and then add some of their own, new ones, using the newest technology.
PhilharMagic will have:
A) Audio-Animatronics in the theatre
B) In theatre smoke, water, and lighting effects
C) Several in chair effects
D) Motion-Base floor
E) one of the largest screens ever used in a 3D film, which will help to pull guests further into the action of the plot (over 150 feet wide and over 50 feet tall)
F) In theatre-props
G) Changing sets
H) Fibre-optic effects
I) Anything else Disney feels like throwing in
And it will involve guest interaction--that is why you make a 3D movie and have in-theatre effects; a third person observer would not experience these effects. This is indeed supposed to be the most-advanced 3D yet, and, I presume, will spread to the other Resorts after it is shown to be popular here (given the fact that it is already set to have Fastpass and that they are spending a good year and a half building it, I have confidence that it will be a crowd-favorite.
From the OFFICIAL Disney statement about the attraction
"'We're really excited about this new attraction,' said Al Weiss, president of Walt Disney World Resort. 'Guests love the Disney characters and films, and this gives them the chance to take a magical ride right into the world of Disney animation.'"
--right into the world of Disney animation--even Al Weiss has said this will have guest interaction, pulling them into the plot.
"Complete with in-theater effects, the attraction will immerse guests in the richly animated world of the Disney characters."
--further allusion to guest interaction
"The attraction is being produced through the combined efforts of Walt Disney Imagineering and Walt Disney Feature Animation."
--how could a team like this go wrong?
"'We're always exploring ways to take 3-D to the next level,' said Tom Fitzgerald, executive vice president and senior creative executive at Walt Disney Imagineering. 'From 'Jim Henson's Muppet*Vision 3D' to 'Honey, I Shrunk the Audience' to 'It's Tough to be a Bug!', we keep looking for new ways to allow guests to become a part of the action and story.' 'Mickey's PhilharMagic' will be the most animated, energetic and magical 3-D show we've ever created!'"
--straight from the Imagineer's mouth...need I say more
Muppetvision 3D--minimal in theatre effects by today's standards, but it was wowing guests when it opened, with its water and bubble effects
Honey I Shrunk the Audience--Guests absolutely LOVED this attraction when it first opened (that has trailed off, of course--this attraction is showing its age) because it was the first 3D to introduce a motion-based floor and both in-theatre and in-chair effects, which pulled guests into the action
The ExtraTERRORestrial Alien Encounter--this screamer began to introduce a bit more life-like effects in the chairs--with its hot, sweaty breath effect, the tongue, and the spitting
It's Tough to Be a Bug!--the best interactive show yet, audiences cannot get enough of its usage of Audio-Animatronics, in theatre smoke and water effects, and even more intense in chair effects, including the use of scent (the stinger FREAKED ME OUT).
Notice that as Disney goes along, they pick the best effects from past shows and then add some of their own, new ones, using the newest technology.
PhilharMagic will have:
A) Audio-Animatronics in the theatre
B) In theatre smoke, water, and lighting effects
C) Several in chair effects
D) Motion-Base floor
E) one of the largest screens ever used in a 3D film, which will help to pull guests further into the action of the plot (over 150 feet wide and over 50 feet tall)
F) In theatre-props
G) Changing sets
H) Fibre-optic effects
I) Anything else Disney feels like throwing in
And it will involve guest interaction--that is why you make a 3D movie and have in-theatre effects; a third person observer would not experience these effects. This is indeed supposed to be the most-advanced 3D yet, and, I presume, will spread to the other Resorts after it is shown to be popular here (given the fact that it is already set to have Fastpass and that they are spending a good year and a half building it, I have confidence that it will be a crowd-favorite.
From the OFFICIAL Disney statement about the attraction
"'We're really excited about this new attraction,' said Al Weiss, president of Walt Disney World Resort. 'Guests love the Disney characters and films, and this gives them the chance to take a magical ride right into the world of Disney animation.'"
--right into the world of Disney animation--even Al Weiss has said this will have guest interaction, pulling them into the plot.
"Complete with in-theater effects, the attraction will immerse guests in the richly animated world of the Disney characters."
--further allusion to guest interaction
"The attraction is being produced through the combined efforts of Walt Disney Imagineering and Walt Disney Feature Animation."
--how could a team like this go wrong?
"'We're always exploring ways to take 3-D to the next level,' said Tom Fitzgerald, executive vice president and senior creative executive at Walt Disney Imagineering. 'From 'Jim Henson's Muppet*Vision 3D' to 'Honey, I Shrunk the Audience' to 'It's Tough to be a Bug!', we keep looking for new ways to allow guests to become a part of the action and story.' 'Mickey's PhilharMagic' will be the most animated, energetic and magical 3-D show we've ever created!'"
--straight from the Imagineer's mouth...need I say more
>>>Actually, PhilharMagic is supposed to have the highest level of guest interaction that any of the 3Ds have, and it is supposed to also have the greatest technology.<<<
That's a far cry from the "groundbreaking" technology you were claiming earlier.
>>>they are spending a good year and a half building it<<<
That was so they could spread the cost of things out over a long period of time, like they did with Mission Space. Philharmagic could have been built MUCH more quickly.
>>>That still gives them room to go down…<<<
Yes, by around 5 or 6% to return to Epcot normal levels, not 15% to a level never seen in Epcot's history (the mid-80's could have been worse, I'll take a look).
>>>I don’t hear this kind of conversation when in the parks and I’ve yet to find much in the way of average visitors who post with any regularity on a Disney message board.<<<
Go out to a restuarant sometime and spark up a conversation about WDW. You'd be surprised at what you get tossed back at you. For more fun, go to a bar and talk about DCA. You'll probably start a brawl.
>>>you have concrete fact on what the working of this attraction consists of?<<<
Yes.
That's a far cry from the "groundbreaking" technology you were claiming earlier.
>>>they are spending a good year and a half building it<<<
That was so they could spread the cost of things out over a long period of time, like they did with Mission Space. Philharmagic could have been built MUCH more quickly.
>>>That still gives them room to go down…<<<
Yes, by around 5 or 6% to return to Epcot normal levels, not 15% to a level never seen in Epcot's history (the mid-80's could have been worse, I'll take a look).
>>>I don’t hear this kind of conversation when in the parks and I’ve yet to find much in the way of average visitors who post with any regularity on a Disney message board.<<<
Go out to a restuarant sometime and spark up a conversation about WDW. You'd be surprised at what you get tossed back at you. For more fun, go to a bar and talk about DCA. You'll probably start a brawl.
>>>you have concrete fact on what the working of this attraction consists of?<<<
Yes.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by pheneix
>>>Actually, PhilharMagic is supposed to have the highest level of guest interaction that any of the 3Ds have, and it is supposed to also have the greatest technology.<<<
That's a far cry from the "groundbreaking" technology you were claiming earlier.
>>>they are spending a good year and a half building it<<<
That was so they could spread the cost of things out over a long period of time, like they did with Mission Space. Philharmagic could have been built MUCH more quickly.
>>>That still gives them room to go down…<<<
Yes, by around 5 or 6% to return to Epcot normal levels, not 15% to a level never seen in Epcot's history (the mid-80's could have been worse, I'll take a look).
>>>I don’t hear this kind of conversation when in the parks and I’ve yet to find much in the way of average visitors who post with any regularity on a Disney message board.<<<
Go out to a restuarant sometime and spark up a conversation about WDW. You'd be surprised at what you get tossed back at you. For more fun, go to a bar and talk about DCA. You'll probably start a brawl.
>>>you have concrete fact on what the working of this attraction consists of?<<<
Yes.
You are ridiculous...I gave you the official Disney announcement and you still argued just for the sake of arguing...I'm done with this thread; my last post speaks for itself and it's obvious to me you are a pessimist, whiner, and enjoy rambling...a little too immature to be the great insider you wish you were.
disneyisbest
New Member
Don't blame him. He hates his life. Wait now that I think about it that is his fault isn't it.
Terp02
New Member
I'm not doubting you in anyway, but can you tell us where you get it from? And what is that disastrous event that's suppose to happen?!?!?
Also, I'm just curious, but how do Universals' overseas parks do, because I know they have them, I just don't know if they're any good or make any money.:veryconfu
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by pheneix
Yes, by around 5 or 6% to return to Epcot normal levels, not 15% to a level never seen in Epcot's history (the mid-80's could have been worse, I'll take a look).
>>>I don’t hear this kind of conversation when in the parks and I’ve yet to find much in the way of average visitors who post with any regularity on a Disney message board.<<<
Go out to a restuarant sometime and spark up a conversation about WDW. You'd be surprised at what you get tossed back at you. For more fun, go to a bar and talk about DCA. You'll probably start a brawl.
>>>you have concrete fact on what the working of this attraction consists of?<<<
Yes.
On a percentage drop, Epcot has lost attendance but so has all of WDW and all of the Orlando are for that matter. I was at Tampa International Airport in November. I saw what would normally be a very busy place empty like a ghost town except for the occasional traveler and armed, combat uniformed National Guard officer patrolling the place. I was there about a month ago as well and while I can say that business has picked up, it takes less time to get from the parking garage to a terminal than it did two years ago even with the added security and even though they tell people to arrive an hour earlier now. I have a friend that landed at Lexington Airport. You know, one of the airports that the hijacked jets came off of? After getting off the plain there they are very worried about getting to their flight back on time because of how busy it is and because of how many delays that the added security has caused. Why do you think there are the big differences? People should be more afraid to go to that airport, shouldn’t they? This is just a shot in the dark but I’m guessing that the majority of their travelers don’t have a lot of choice in the matter since most of that traffic is not tourism based. I can easily lay witness to the drop off in tourism in my own area and if you want, I’ll dig up the local news articles where the hotels on the beaches around here have been crying for tax relief due to stalled business that only started to pick up a few months ago… I don’t know where you have gotten this idea that It is only Disney around here who is hurting but that is nowhere near the truth as I’m sure anyone else in a tourism are of Florida can attest. People are coming back, business is coming back but it’s been a very slow process. The department of Agriculture (for some reason they are in charge of tourism in Florida – Don’t ask) has been running spots for quite some time now encouraging Floridians to vacation in Florida to stimulate financial growth. If I have to hear another one of those “get in the game” commercials on the radio I’m going to pull my hair out. Sure, Universal says they are doing pretty good but I’ve noticed the articles that they’ve said that in have been suspiciously short on numbers backing those claims up and if you had asked any Worldcom executive the day before they released the new about the “errors” in their financial reporting, I’m sure they’d have said they were doing great as well.
Again, I go back to my figures from before the millennium celebration in 1998 to last year. Minus the figures for the Millennium celebration, the difference is still about 11% which puts them in better shape than their local competition with a drop of 16% in the same time period. True, Universal saw the opening of a new theme park on their own land but so did Epcot in about the same time period and in the case of Epcot (AK) the new park today draws more in attendance than any non-Disney park in Orlando where as the new park which as you said, Universal Orlando would like to consider their flagship park, has gotten over 20% of it’s attendance at the apparent cost of attendance at the original park while still falling nearly two million people behind it in attendance. What I’m getting at here is that by Disney’s standards, they aren’t doing that great in any of their Florida parks but by industry standards in the Orlando neighborhood they are doing better than their competition. Actually, Animal Kingdom, Disney’s lowest performing Florida park did more business in its first year of operation (almost 4 months shy of a whole year, too) than somebody else newest park has done to date. That says a lot for a park that is “boring” and that people can “only spend half a day in”, doesn’t it?
As for the restaurant or bar thing: You live in NC, right? Well I live about an hour away from Disney and if I went into a bar and “struck up a conversation” about Disney, it would probably be one of the shortest lived conversations in my life. Now, I see this happening in an area that is relatively close to WDW. I would honestly have to wonder how many people in whatever bar you go to up in North Carolina have even been to Disney’s California Adventures all the way across the country in the last two years or so that it’s been open. Just for kicks, I’ll ask somebody about DCA the next time I’m in a bar and see if it starts the heated debate that you claim can start up among “average visitors”.
Normally, you are pretty good at this whole debate thing but these kind of statements sound like they are coming from a person who has lost touch with reality.As for you having concrete fact to what this new attraction in MK will be, you’ll have to excuse my skepticism. It’s just that you claim to have this same kind of knowledge of everything that’s going on at Universal Florida and then in the next breath, talk about how great of a year they seem to be having basing it on what? They’re offering two years for the price of one on annual passes through a few different outlets (one of which is to bring the loosing ticket from a Florida Lottery scratch off game) and they’ve been offering other similar big discounts over the past year or two to try to convince people to spend more time in their parks. I honestly can’t help but wonder if a rain check for after 4 admission the next day will count as two admissions to a Universal park or one for their annual totals and when somebody uses (not sure if this promotion is still in effect) their discover card and gets the second day for free, does that count as additional admission? If so, I’m sure Universal would have no problem comping their way to the number one spot for attendance if they throw in a few more half price, two for the price of one and free offers they have for their parks. These are NOT the signs of a company that is having a good year. Shortly after 9/11 Disney started running the 100 years celebration - get 100 more days on a new or renewed annual pass deal. It was obviously targeted at increasing attendance at a time when the parks were in trouble. It was an unheard of offer for Disney that has come and gone but others in the area have been doing more than that all along and are continuing to do so even more aggressively. To have exact working knowledge of what is going in with the development of a new project that is in the hands of Disney Imagineering, you would have to have somebody from Imagineering who is working on the project reporting directly to you at the risk of breaking non-disclosure contracts which would result in the loss of their job and possible civil and criminal penalties. The net is awash with rumors about what goes on within that division of Disney for the very reason that they have this very serious “loose lips sink ships” policy. To say that you have this kind of access to both Disney Imagineering and then to claim that you have it for either Universal or Universal’s contractors seems like a big stretch especially when you never seem to provide concrete proof of this. If you know exactly what Philarmagic is going to be, please tell us. Give us a detailed outline of the story and what effects will be used in the theater. Heck, forget Philarmagic, tell us exactly what Mission Space is going to be. I’m sure that’s something that we all are more interested in. We have seen computer renderings of what the device may look like, why don’t you tell us for sure and give us an idea how they are going to do the whole feeing of weightlessness thing off? This is it, I’m putting my cards face down on the table and I’m calling… Either you know and can tell us or you don’t and you can’t.
CmdrTostada
Member
Originally posted by MrPromey
On a percentage drop, Epcot has lost attendance but so has all of WDW and all of the Orlando are for that matter. I was at Tampa International Airport in November. I saw what would normally be a very busy place empty like a ghost town except for the occasional traveler and armed, combat uniformed National Guard officer patrolling the place. I was there about a month ago as well and while I can say that business has picked up, it takes less time to get from the parking garage to a terminal than it did two years ago even with the added security and even though they tell people to arrive an hour earlier now. I have a friend that landed at Lexington Airport. You know, one of the airports that the hijacked jets came off of? After getting off the plain there they are very worried about getting to their flight back on time because of how busy it is and because of how many delays that the added security has caused. Why do you think there are the big differences? People should be more afraid to go to that airport, shouldn’t they? This is just a shot in the dark but I’m guessing that the majority of their travelers don’t have a lot of choice in the matter since most of that traffic is not tourism based. I can easily lay witness to the drop off in tourism in my own area and if you want, I’ll dig up the local news articles where the hotels on the beaches around here have been crying for tax relief due to stalled business that only started to pick up a few months ago… I don’t know where you have gotten this idea that It is only Disney around here who is hurting but that is nowhere near the truth as I’m sure anyone else in a tourism are of Florida can attest. People are coming back, business is coming back but it’s been a very slow process. The department of Agriculture (for some reason they are in charge of tourism in Florida – Don’t ask) has been running spots for quite some time now encouraging Floridians to vacation in Florida to stimulate financial growth. If I have to hear another one of those “get in the game” commercials on the radio I’m going to pull my hair out. Sure, Universal says they are doing pretty good but I’ve noticed the articles that they’ve said that in have been suspiciously short on numbers backing those claims up and if you had asked any Worldcom executive the day before they released the new about the “errors” in their financial reporting, I’m sure they’d have said they were doing great as well.
Again, I go back to my figures from before the millennium celebration in 1998 to last year. Minus the figures for the Millennium celebration, the difference is still about 11% which puts them in better shape than their local competition with a drop of 16% in the same time period. True, Universal saw the opening of a new theme park on their own land but so did Epcot in about the same time period and in the case of Epcot (AK) the new park today draws more in attendance than any non-Disney park in Orlando where as the new park which as you said, Universal Orlando would like to consider their flagship park, has gotten over 20% of it’s attendance at the apparent cost of attendance at the original park while still falling nearly two million people behind it in attendance. What I’m getting at here is that by Disney’s standards, they aren’t doing that great in any of their Florida parks but by industry standards in the Orlando neighborhood they are doing better than their competition. Actually, Animal Kingdom, Disney’s lowest performing Florida park did more business in its first year of operation (almost 4 months shy of a whole year, too) than somebody else newest park has done to date. That says a lot for a park that is “boring” and that people can “only spend half a day in”, doesn’t it?
As for the restaurant or bar thing: You live in NC, right? Well I live about an hour away from Disney and if I went into a bar and “struck up a conversation” about Disney, it would probably be one of the shortest lived conversations in my life. Now, I see this happening in an area that is relatively close to WDW. I would honestly have to wonder how many people in whatever bar you go to up in North Carolina have even been to Disney’s California Adventures all the way across the country in the last two years or so that it’s been open. Just for kicks, I’ll ask somebody about DCA the next time I’m in a bar and see if it starts the heated debate that you claim can start up among “average visitors”.
As for you having concrete fact to what this new attraction in MK will be, you’ll have to excuse my skepticism. It’s just that you claim to have this same kind of knowledge of everything that’s going on at Universal Florida and then in the next breath, talk about how great of a year they seem to be having basing it on what? They’re offering two years for the price of one on annual passes through a few different outlets (one of which is to bring the loosing ticket from a Florida Lottery scratch off game) and they’ve been offering other similar big discounts over the past year or two to try to convince people to spend more time in their parks. I honestly can’t help but wonder if a rain check for after 4 admission the next day will count as two admissions to a Universal park or one for their annual totals and when somebody uses (not sure if this promotion is still in effect) their discover card and gets the second day for free, does that count as additional admission? If so, I’m sure Universal would have no problem comping their way to the number one spot for attendance if they throw in a few more half price, two for the price of one and free offers they have for their parks. These are NOT the signs of a company that is having a good year. Shortly after 9/11 Disney started running the 100 years celebration - get 100 more days on a new or renewed annual pass deal. It was obviously targeted at increasing attendance at a time when the parks were in trouble. It was an unheard of offer for Disney that has come and gone but others in the area have been doing more than that all along and are continuing to do so even more aggressively. To have exact working knowledge of what is going in with the development of a new project that is in the hands of Disney Imagineering, you would have to have somebody from Imagineering who is working on the project reporting directly to you at the risk of breaking non-disclosure contracts which would result in the loss of their job and possible civil and criminal penalties. The net is awash with rumors about what goes on within that division of Disney for the very reason that they have this very serious “loose lips sink ships” policy. To say that you have this kind of access to both Disney Imagineering and then to claim that you have it for either Universal or Universal’s contractors seems like a big stretch especially when you never seem to provide concrete proof of this. If you know exactly what Philarmagic is going to be, please tell us. Give us a detailed outline of the story and what effects will be used in the theater. Heck, forget Philarmagic, tell us exactly what Mission Space is going to be. I’m sure that’s something that we all are more interested in. We have seen computer renderings of what the device may look like, why don’t you tell us for sure and give us an idea how they are going to do the whole feeing of weightlessness thing off? This is it, I’m putting my cards face down on the table and I’m calling… Either you know and can tell us or you don’t and you can’t.
Go MrP.
CmdrTostada
Member
That was kind of the point. Pheneix talks about knowing whats going on but he doesnt tell us, so Ill take everything he says with a grain of salt, he's a US fan boy.
>>>I'm done with this thread; my last post speaks for itself and it's obvious to me you are a pessimist, whiner, and enjoy rambling...a little too immature to be the great insider you wish you were.<<<
Fine. It is kind of as shame though to see you stoop to the level of making unrealistic assumptions instead of hashing out arguments maturely like you were originally doing. At least you're not accusing me of "hating my life."
>>>Don't blame him. He hates his life. Wait now that I think about it that is his fault isn't it.<<<
Whatever. Your post has been reported to the moderator.
>>>On a percentage drop, Epcot has lost attendance but so has all of WDW and all of the Orlando are for that matter.<<<
But once again, not to the extent Epcot has. The only other two parks that had such a drop last year were Disneyland and Universal Studios, and even at those parks that could be attributed to cannibalization.
>>>I’ve noticed the articles that they’ve said that in have been suspiciously short on numbers backing those claims up<<<
Neither Disney nor Universal releases hard attendance numbers. I think it is a poor policy because it helps shield losses during hard times like September 11th, but that is the way they do business.
>>>Animal Kingdom, Disney’s lowest performing Florida park did more business in its first year of operation (almost 4 months shy of a whole year, too) than somebody else newest park has done to date.<<<
USJ and DisneySea have done much better, and Epcot did much better in it's first year than Animal Kingdom. Unless of course you have been refering to non-Disney parks, in which case that's a moot point.
>>>Normally, you are pretty good at this whole debate thing but these kind of statements sound like they are coming from a person who has lost touch with reality.<<<
It was a joke. The stupid should have given it away.
>>>As for you having concrete fact to what this new attraction in MK will be, you’ll have to excuse my skepticism.<<<
Your excused.
>>>I honestly can’t help but wonder if a rain check for after 4 admission the next day will count as two admissions to a Universal park or one for their annual totals and when somebody uses (not sure if this promotion is still in effect) their discover card and gets the second day for free, does that count as additional admission?<<<
I would imagine that a rain check would be counted as a park hopper (like the first park that someone visits gets the true admission total, but if they go to another park the turnstiles just get a click to acknowledge that someone visited, though the number does not count towards that park's final admission tally). As far as the Discover card thing goes, I'm not sure, but if a guest goes to your park and spends money one day, and then comes back the next day and spends money again, then they're probably counted as two seperate admissions. Basically how a comp ticket counts towards the final tally even though no one paid a dime for it.
>>>If you know exactly what Philarmagic is going to be, please tell us.<<<
[SPOILER WARNING]
To keep the spoilers down to a minimum, basically Mickey is trying to conduct an orchestra until Donald starts causing trouble. Then one of the characters takes this prankster's instrument (it would be something different, I'm going off of memory here) away and everyone starts playing a special effects filled game of keep away. That is at least how I remember it being late last year.
>>>why don’t you tell us for sure and give us an idea how they are going to do the whole feeing of weightlessness thing off?<<<
Alright, you know how when you slow down driving you feel the momentum of your body trying to move at the same speed your car was previously going? When your in that centrifiuge thingy with it slowing down the momentum of your body will give you the feeling of weightlessness. The pods are also supposed to tilt in the opposite direction (instead of your body being faced towards the center you will be pointed towards the outer wall) to help enhance this feeling.
>>>he's a US fan boy<<<
No, I'm not. I could go off into this huge rant about how WDW was my favorite place in the world until management starting ripping the place apart, but for the sake of not boring anyone, I won't.
Fine. It is kind of as shame though to see you stoop to the level of making unrealistic assumptions instead of hashing out arguments maturely like you were originally doing. At least you're not accusing me of "hating my life."
>>>Don't blame him. He hates his life. Wait now that I think about it that is his fault isn't it.<<<
Whatever. Your post has been reported to the moderator.
>>>On a percentage drop, Epcot has lost attendance but so has all of WDW and all of the Orlando are for that matter.<<<
But once again, not to the extent Epcot has. The only other two parks that had such a drop last year were Disneyland and Universal Studios, and even at those parks that could be attributed to cannibalization.
>>>I’ve noticed the articles that they’ve said that in have been suspiciously short on numbers backing those claims up<<<
Neither Disney nor Universal releases hard attendance numbers. I think it is a poor policy because it helps shield losses during hard times like September 11th, but that is the way they do business.
>>>Animal Kingdom, Disney’s lowest performing Florida park did more business in its first year of operation (almost 4 months shy of a whole year, too) than somebody else newest park has done to date.<<<
USJ and DisneySea have done much better, and Epcot did much better in it's first year than Animal Kingdom. Unless of course you have been refering to non-Disney parks, in which case that's a moot point.
>>>Normally, you are pretty good at this whole debate thing but these kind of statements sound like they are coming from a person who has lost touch with reality.<<<
It was a joke. The stupid
should have given it away.>>>As for you having concrete fact to what this new attraction in MK will be, you’ll have to excuse my skepticism.<<<
Your excused.
>>>I honestly can’t help but wonder if a rain check for after 4 admission the next day will count as two admissions to a Universal park or one for their annual totals and when somebody uses (not sure if this promotion is still in effect) their discover card and gets the second day for free, does that count as additional admission?<<<
I would imagine that a rain check would be counted as a park hopper (like the first park that someone visits gets the true admission total, but if they go to another park the turnstiles just get a click to acknowledge that someone visited, though the number does not count towards that park's final admission tally). As far as the Discover card thing goes, I'm not sure, but if a guest goes to your park and spends money one day, and then comes back the next day and spends money again, then they're probably counted as two seperate admissions. Basically how a comp ticket counts towards the final tally even though no one paid a dime for it.
>>>If you know exactly what Philarmagic is going to be, please tell us.<<<
[SPOILER WARNING]
To keep the spoilers down to a minimum, basically Mickey is trying to conduct an orchestra until Donald starts causing trouble. Then one of the characters takes this prankster's instrument (it would be something different, I'm going off of memory here) away and everyone starts playing a special effects filled game of keep away. That is at least how I remember it being late last year.
>>>why don’t you tell us for sure and give us an idea how they are going to do the whole feeing of weightlessness thing off?<<<
Alright, you know how when you slow down driving you feel the momentum of your body trying to move at the same speed your car was previously going? When your in that centrifiuge thingy with it slowing down the momentum of your body will give you the feeling of weightlessness. The pods are also supposed to tilt in the opposite direction (instead of your body being faced towards the center you will be pointed towards the outer wall) to help enhance this feeling.
>>>he's a US fan boy<<<
No, I'm not. I could go off into this huge rant about how WDW was my favorite place in the world until management starting ripping the place apart, but for the sake of not boring anyone, I won't.
CmdrTostada
Member
Ok pheneix sorry about the US fanboy. But I honestly hope that mickey's philarmagic is not like that, because Im pretty sure its like Donalds first cartoon appearance, if thats what its going to be.