Are people getting used to life without Disneyland?

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I prefer Universal Orlando

 

[bryanfze55]

I prefer Universal Orlando

Heading there for the first time later in 2021 (well I went to USF for about 4 hours a few years ago but never a proper vacation). Excited but at the same time feeling like it will disappoint compared to Disneyland (though probably on par with WDW).

 

[Miru]

Once they announced Splash being removed I honestly stopped caring. The company is so far gone from what it used to be, since 2015 its been nothing but garbage and they've lost me as a die hard fan.

What would win you back?

 

[Miru]

My Dream List:

1) Reverse course on Splash Mountain and restore Tower of Terror
2) Demolish the whole pier area of California Adventure (and the carnival rides) and do anything else with it
3) Have actual 4D Films instead of movie previews (Bring back Captain EO)
4) Mandate that for every IP ride there needs to be one original ride not based on a movie/show
5) Do away with the up-charging for show viewing that used to be free (Dont Nickle and Dime the customer)
6) Focus on plussing the daily guest experience (entry, lines, staffing, etc)
7) Sever all ties between imagineering and the other divisions of the company so that the creatives can chose attractions, not the marketing people


Even just a few of these would be a step in the right direction.

As of now Disney believes their fans to be walking advocates of all things their brand encompasses (newest movies, marvel, star wars, espn, nat geo) when this is not the case at all.

Bullseye! The big problem here is that the park division are too tied to other divisions, who expect us to be into ESPN, Blue Sky, and CrossGen. And yes, there is still 1 4D film in DLR; Philharmagic, though I feel more would be better than previews and museums occupying space. What would happen to what used to be Paradise Pier, then?

 

[Miru]

Maybe it's just me getting older, but when I first got a pass 6 years ago I felt like Disney seemed a lot more in tune with their park fans and what they wanted.

They were offering regular events for passholders (free, just something fun for them to offer), they had 24 hour celebrations, they were updating the Matterhorn, Peter Pan, and Alice In Wonderland. The parks were staffed at a normal level. They were beautifying California Adventure by extending the Grizzly Forest to Soaring.

I'm sure things were ran even better before then, but I do feel a sharp decline in the entire experience happened over the last few years:

Guardians, Pixar Pier, Parking/Dining half staffed (even on busy days), removal of Gumbo from Blue Bayou Entrees, charging people money to be at the top floor of Inventions to watch fireworks and eat pre-packaged desserts...

Not to mention scrapping MV3D for no good reason, lack of references to past attractions...

 

[Miru]

That really hurts. It's so weird to me that they actually took away and rethemed (and still do) attractions from California Adventure but don't care about adding new ones. It's like they want to park to be in a perpetual state of being "current".

Even when they have a hit ride like Tower of Terror and Soarin, they retheme them...

I can't even get nostalgic for anything at the park since they rebuild it every 5 years.

Also, remember SaveDisney? Nowadays, a lot of people would rather kill the company than save it, unlike in the 2000s. We need another SaveDisney.

 

[Miru]

You are so right! Back then Disney's biggest fans were all about saving the company and keeping its image. Now being a "Disney fan" means buying tickets to every movie they make and posting pictures of you holding a reheated previously frozen churro on social media and talking about how "amazing" they are.

And more people than ever simply want to kill Disney.
What I’d want to do:
1. Stop treating the mid-to-late 1940s as an embarrassment for the company. And the late 70s-1988, for that matter.
2. Release works like Song of the South and Victory Through Air Power with disclaimers.
3. Pretty much all of your points.
4. Stop advertising Fox in the same context as the rest of us.
5. Allow all planned LARs to release, but test animated remakes of older live action films. I’d eventually axe the remakes, though.
6. Reopen additional studios for increased animation production.

 

[SuddenStorm]

And more people than ever simply want to kill Disney.
What I’d want to do:
1. Stop treating the mid-to-late 1940s as an embarrassment for the company. And the late 70s-1988, for that matter.
2. Release works like Song of the South and Victory Through Air Power with disclaimers.
3. Pretty much all of your points.
4. Stop advertising Fox in the same context as the rest of us.
5. Allow all planned LARs to release, but test animated remakes of older live action films. I’d eventually axe the remakes, though.
6. Reopen additional studios for increased animation production.

Remember when Disney was so protective of the Disney name as a brand, they created Touchstone to allow them to create more adult content without tarnishing Disney's brand?

And now Disney+ paints Fox, Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar content as Disney.

I wish that Disney had worked harder to not have everyone associate Marvel and Star Wars with Disney. And Fox- the fact that Disney actually showed this in front of Onward is really sad.



So you have The Simpsons, an irreverent comedy series well past its prime now being used to represent Disney/Mickey Mouse- in front of an animated feature Walt Disney Animation didn't produce. But corporate synergy, right?

 

[Miru]

Remember when Disney was so protective of the Disney name as a brand, they created Touchstone to allow them to create more adult content without tarnishing Disney's brand?

And now Disney+ paints Fox, Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar content as Disney.

I wish that Disney had worked harder to not have everyone associate Marvel and Star Wars with Disney. And Fox- the fact that Disney actually showed this in front of Onward is really sad.



So you have The Simpsons, an irreverent comedy series well past its prime now being used to represent Disney/Mickey Mouse- in front of an animated feature Walt Disney Animation didn't produce. But corporate synergy, right?

They’re also hypocritical about it too... don’t see them painting their name on stuff like ABC they got earlier. It makes no sense to market TCS as Disney, even Blue Sky is very different from WDAS and Pixar. From there, about their increasing embarassment at the mid to late 40s? They used to market them everywhere, and nowadays they’re ashamed they existed. I have two things to say about this; “you can run, but you can’t hide”, and “the tighter you squeeze, the more slip through the cracks”.


The last good Simpsons thing was probably that Holidays of Future Passed episode. Given that alumni of the series are growing old, retiring, and dying, I feel like it is certified time to stop.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

I still haven't seen RotR yet. Hoping it helps rekindle my lost love of modern Disney Parks.

 

[Miru]

I still haven't seen RotR yet. Hoping it helps rekindle my lost love of modern Disney Parks.

Me neither. Hopefully that and the Avengers rides can do the trick. Not sure about the latter ones, as they seem to have a lot of gnasherbait.
Another thing Disney should do is focus on quality over quantity with their hotels. Instead of just a tower with a bunch of added rooms, add back things like the water show and the Jungle Cruise game.

 

[mickEblu]

Great ideas! I really despise the fact that Disney only seems to care about The Little Mermaid - Mulan when talking about "classic films". I grew up in the era of the "Disney Renassiance" as people call it, but the tapes I watched the most were Pinocchio, Snow White, Dumbo, and Peter Pan.

Even back then I realized the theatrical films coming out were all hype and lacked the quality of the classics.

The films Walt Disney made were masterpieces. As recent as Disney's 50th Anniversary it was very common to find more merchandise of classic Disney films than their 90s output. These were collectibles too, not T Shirts and Notebooks.

Same here. I was 7 years old when the Disney Renaissance started and with little Mermaid (although I like to say it started with Roger) and 16 when it ended with Tarzan (although I think it really ended with Lion King... Hunchback if you want to be generous). Still all of my favorite Disney films are from the Golden Era. I watched them on VHS. The Renaissance films are good movies but they re visually MEH.

 

[Miru]

Great ideas! I really despise the fact that Disney only seems to care about The Little Mermaid - Mulan when talking about "classic films". I grew up in the era of the "Disney Renassiance" as people call it, but the tapes I watched the most were Pinocchio, Snow White, Dumbo, and Peter Pan.

Even back then I realized the theatrical films coming out were all hype and lacked the quality of the classics.

The films Walt Disney made were masterpieces. As recent as Disney's 50th Anniversary it was very common to find more merchandise of classic Disney films than their 90s output. These were collectibles too, not T Shirts and Notebooks.

Actually, Disney does still care about films like Pinocchio and Bambi. Which is to say, they still care about their 1937-1942 lineup and their 1950s-1960s spate. What I was talking about were things like the package features and early hybrids, such as The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, as well as the gritty experimental films of the 80s like The Black Cauldron. Now those are films Disney has cared less and less about.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Actually, Disney does still care about films like Pinocchio and Bambi. Which is to say, they still care about their 1937-1942 lineup and their 1950s-1960s spate. What I was talking about were things like the package features and early hybrids, such as The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, as well as the gritty experimental films of the 80s like The Black Cauldron. Now those are films Disney has cared less and less about.

They're never going to care about the package features (except Ichabod/Toad, which has enough of a following to be released around Halloween every year) because there really isn't a way to make those films into something other than extremely niche products. I imagine there are few people beyond those who post on boards like these that are, say, clamoring for Make Mine Music to be added to D+ or that even know what it is. There's little to no awareness that these films exist, and most people who do stumble upon them probably wouldn't find them high quality enough as a whole to recommend them to others.

Black Cauldron, while interesting and notable, pivots away from the typical audience of the Disney animated feature and is deeply flawed-flawed in ways that make it unlikely to ever massively grow its audience, even if at some point Disney stops being embarrased about its existence.

While I do think the company is too focused on a select few films and periods at the expense of its rich legacy of past features, there are also films they've made that are obscure for a reason-not because they're bad, per se, but because they simply don't deliver on audience expectations, or just aren't successful enough on their own merits.

 

[drizgirl]

Except what they actually said was:

"Until every person in the U.S. can get a COVID-19 vaccine, continue to wear a mask, keep at least 6 feet between yourself and others, avoid crowds, and wash your hands often."

It's guidance, not the law. And they will always recommend the greatest caution - it's their job.

Plus avoiding crowds is always ideal to avoid getting sick, as is washing one's hands, and I appreciate personal space and people not coughing or sneezing in my face. There should be no issue with anyone wearing a mask who wants to and (even aside from its effect on Covid) it seems to have had a good effect on the flu season this year as I've seen nothing reported about tens of thousands dying of the flu recently. That's a good thing.

Be safe, let us hope we've all learning better behaviors from this experience, and this too shall pass.

And that's still never going to happen. Because a number of people will refuse to get the vaccine.

That said, I am 100% behind continuing to do those things until everyone has at least had the opportunity to get it.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

And that's still never going to happen. Because a number of people will refuse to get the vaccine.

That said, I am 100% behind continuing to do those things until everyone has at least had the opportunity to get it.

Oh, agreed they won't get everyone vaccinated. I think 60% initially would be a strong number and then hopefully between that and those with antibodies already, we will hit herd immunity. *fingers crossed*

Point was what they actually said vs. how it may be misinterpreted.

 

[Miru]

Apparently, people had REALLY better get used to life without Disneyland, because the CDC tweeted that COVID restrictions must remain in place until every single person in the US gets the vaccine. Not 75%, mind you, but literally every single person in the country.

Since that goal is all but impossible, does that mean that the restrictions are as good as permanent and that large-scale gatherings can never happen again? Meaning places like Disneyland can never reopen?

Theoretically if the threshold was met, would they reopen?

 

[mharrington]

Theoretically if the threshold was met, would they reopen?

I would say yes, but considering where cases stand now, it's going to be a very, very long time before we can get to anywhere near 75%.

 

[Miru]

They're never going to care about the package features (except Ichabod/Toad, which has enough of a following to be released around Halloween every year) because there really isn't a way to make those films into something other than extremely niche products. I imagine there are few people beyond those who post on boards like these that are, say, clamoring for Make Mine Music to be added to D+ or that even know what it is. There's little to no awareness that these films exist, and most people who do stumble upon them probably wouldn't find them high quality enough as a whole to recommend them to others.

Black Cauldron, while interesting and notable, pivots away from the typical audience of the Disney animated feature and is deeply flawed-flawed in ways that make it unlikely to ever massively grow its audience, even if at some point Disney stops being embarrased about its existence.

While I do think the company is too focused on a select few films and periods at the expense of its rich legacy of past features, there are also films they've made that are obscure for a reason-not because they're bad, per se, but because they simply don't deliver on audience expectations, or just aren't successful enough on their own merits.

The point I was making there is that prior to around the mid 90s, Disney did care about those package features in the past, but abandoned them. Take a look at clips of Disney advertising and Disney Channel programming material from the 1980s and prior, and you will see plenty of package feature and early hybrid footage/characters in them alongside Mickey and the like;




Yes, I know Mr. Toad is still popular (and is also considered the best of them).

 

[PiratesMansion]

The point I was making there is that prior to around the mid 90s, Disney did care about those package features in the past, but abandoned them. Take a look at clips of Disney advertising and Disney Channel programming material from the 1980s and prior, and you will see plenty of package feature and early hybrid footage/characters in them alongside Mickey and the like;




Yes, I know Mr. Toad is still popular (and is also considered the best of them).

But I think the overriding point is that while there have been individual sequences of the package films that had broken out, or that people might have been expected to recognize, that is not necessarily true for the films themselves.

Then as now, far many people might have recognized Mickey and the Beanstalk, which would have indeed been seen more frequently (if only because the studio had much less material in the vault to work with), but those same people would have given you blank looks, then as now, if you mentioned Fun and Fancy Free, the film it came from. While they certainly used certain characters and sequences more prominently, I don't know that that's indicative that the film as a whole was easily identifiable to most audiences.

I was also curious and looked at the re-releases for the package features. The latest theatrical re-release of each package film was:
Saludos Amigos: 1949 (only theatrical re-release ever)
Three Caballeros: 1977 (only)
Make Mine Music: never re-released
Fun and Fancy Free: never re-released?
Melody Time: never re-released?
Ichabod & Mr. Toad: Sleepy Hollow alone in 1963

The Disney studio itself has always been pragmatic about the role of the package features, and how they were more about keeping the studio running than creating art. Hence why individual segments might pop up or be featured prominently for a time but the films they came from remained buried, obscure, and forgotten. And it's hard to fully blame them: while there are some good shorts within them, it's also hard to argue that most any of those films, as a collective work, could match the other more iconic features. Perhaps for Cabelleros or Ichabod/Toad; certainly not for the others.

So really, I think we both have a point here: the films themselves have generally remained obscure and weren't particularly beloved by anyone then or now, but there are segments that broke out and were utilized more prominently then compared to now.